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Old January 28th, 2006, 08:34 PM   #1
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VASST GearShift & 23.976fps progressive .M2T from Canon XL-H1

Got a big project coming up. Cutting the movie in Vegas 6. We're using 2 Canon XL-H1's jam-sync'd together running freerun timecode at time-of-day.

QUESTION #1: Is there a PC program available on planet Earth that will capture HDV footage from a Sony Z1U(cf24, cf30 or 60i) or a Canon XL-H1(24f, 30f or 60i) when the cameras were used in FREERUN timecode mode and still allow that timecode to be correctly displayed/shown in Vegas 6 for each clip?
I have yet to be able to get HDV footage into Vegas (using all methods I know - connect hd, canon console & vegas 6 itself) and it be timecode accurate. All clips begin at 00:00:00;00. Maybe I am missing something?

QUESTION #2:How will the latest version of Gearshift handle the pre-captured 24p HDV footage from the XL-H1's? I wish to make DV proxies to utilize during the editing process, and shift gears back to the original .M2T's. Since I do not think the 24F created footage is over 60i and has no pulldown, what type of DV files will it create?
If it can handle this, GearShift is cool!

QUESTION #3:If the pre-captured 24p HDV footage from the XL-H1's have timecode clips that begin with say 12:34:56;12, then will the proxies created by GearShift also be timecode accurate and begin with 12:34:56:12 as well?
If it can do this, GearShift is awesome!

QUESTION #4:Say for instance we create Sony 4:2:2 YUV files with Gearshift before we begin editing. Well, once we are finished editing our movie, will we have the option to choose what gear to shift to? Meaning, can we downshift back to the original .M2T's or can we choose to downshift to the GearSift created Sony 4:2:2 YUV codec masters?
If it can perform this, GearShift is STELLAR!

- ShannonRawls.com
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Last edited by Shannon Rawls; January 29th, 2006 at 02:44 PM.
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Old January 28th, 2006, 09:25 PM   #2
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shannon Rawls
Got a big project coming up. Cutting the movie in Vegas 6. We're using 2 Canon XL-H1's jam-sync'd together running freerun timecode at time-of-day.

QUESTION #1: Is there a PC program available on planet Earth that will capture HDV footage from a Sony Z1U(cf24, cf30 or 60i) or a Canon XL-H1(24f, 30f or 60i) when the cameras were used in FREERUN timecode mode and still allow that timecode to be correctly displayed/shown in Vegas 6 for each clip?
I have yet to be able to get HDV footage into Vegas (using all methods I know - prospect hd, canon console & vegas 6 itself) and it be timecode accurate. All clips begin at 00:00:00;00. Maybe I am missing something?

Add timecode in the Media Pool/Project Media, rather than on the timeline.

QUESTION #2:How will the latest version of Gearshift handle the pre-captured 24p HDV footage from the XL-H1's? I wish to make DV proxies to utilize during the editing process, and shift gears back to the original .M2T's. Since I do not think the 24F created footage is not over 60i and has no pulldown, what type of DV files will it create?
If it can handle this, GearShift is cool!

GearShift will correctly manage the files regardless of framerate.

QUESTION #3:If the pre-captured 24p HDV footage from the XL-H1's have timecode clips that begin with say 12:34:56;12, then will the proxies created by GearShift also be timecode accurate and begin with 12:34:56:12 as well?
If it can do this, GearShift is awesome!

Depending on how you shift Gears, GearShift will contain identical timecode, but it's not reading the timecode from the original file, it's generating new T/C. So, lengths must stay identical.

QUESTION #4:Say for instance we create Sony 4:2:2 YUV files with Gearshift before we begin editing. Well, once we are finished editing our movie, will we have the option to choose what gear to shift to? Meaning, can we downshift back to the original .M2T's or can we choose to downshift to the GearSift created Sony 4:2:2 YUV codec masters?
If it can perform this, GearShift is STELLAR!

GearShift will only refer back to one or the other file, not both. So, if you create 4:2:2 AND DV proxies, GearShift will never again refer to the m2t files.

- ShannonRawls.com
You've also put forward some interesting ideas for what GearShift could potentially do...and we're currently working on a new rev anyway.
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Old January 28th, 2006, 11:28 PM   #3
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DSE - "Add timecode in the Media Pool/Project Media, rather than on the timeline"

Wow! You mean for every clip we capture?? Man DSE, are you kidding me? *smile* That would take forever. I usually end up with 50 clips per tape. And capturing a full 1-hour tape with no scene detection will work either. Because this is FREERUN timecode, not Rec Run or PS. Rec Run. Meaning each clip will have it's own set of time. It doesn't run straight through for the whole tape.

For the rest of the questions....this is great. I will email you directly for in-depth questions. *smile*

- ShannonRawls.com
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Old January 28th, 2006, 11:35 PM   #4
 
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If you have Ultimate S, it will add T/C to every clip in the Media Pool/Project media at one click. 5 clips or 5000....I use this religiously.
There is also a free script on the VASST site that will offer this function, too.
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Old January 28th, 2006, 11:41 PM   #5
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Yes, but I don't need just ANY timecode...I need the correct timecode. And how on I supposed to know the correct timecode of the 1st frame of every single clip for about 20 tapes, each with aout 50 clips?

Is there no PC program on the planet that captures & reads HDV timecode?

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Old January 28th, 2006, 11:54 PM   #6
 
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When you insert the T/C option in the Media Pool/Project Media tab, it reads the T/C from the original media. In other words, it displays the T/C that is embedded in the clip.
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Old January 29th, 2006, 12:29 PM   #7
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DOUGLAS SPOTTED EAGLE*corrected*, I'm sorry but I don't understand.

I am using Vegas 6.0c. I have video captured with Vegas, Firestore & Cineform. Also many clips from other people on the net. I am absolutely positive that all these clips DO NOT begin with 00:00:00;00 like Vegas says they do.

By right clicking on each clip I want in the PROJECT MEDIA tab and then selecting PROPETIES, it shows me the details of that clip. In the properties of the clips, under Timecode, all of them say "Use timecode in file". And they all seem to say 00:00:00;00. Project media detailed view shows me Timecode In, Timecode Out, Length, Tape Name, Size, etc... etc...

So....is there something I am not doing? What do you mean 'insert the T/C option in the Project Media tab'. What exactly does that mean? Insert the timecode? I'm lost.

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Old January 29th, 2006, 12:33 PM   #8
 
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I'm not Barry, but will answer anyway....

1. Open Media Pool/Project Media tab.
2. Select clip that you'd like to see original timecode for.
3. Click the FX button on the Toolbar in the Media Pool/Project Media tab.
4. Select the Timecode filter in the dialog box that opens up.
5. Double click the T/C filter.
6. You're done. The clip now displays original timecode.

You can also do this by going to Tools/Scripting/Add Timecode to All Media if you're using Vegas 6. This adds T/C at the media Pool level.
The T/C that is displayed is the original T/C that's embedded in the captured file, straight from the camera.
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Old January 29th, 2006, 01:40 PM   #9
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DSE! you know I was trippin' right? Sorry about that bro. Didn't mean to make that mistake.

And as far as the FX...OHhhhHHHhhhh, that's what you were talking about? Well, yea.....I knew about that already. I actually go into the OPTIONS>PREFERENCES tab and have it "Show source frame numbers on event thumbnails as: Timecode" and it does the same thing.

Either way...doing it using FX with a timecode overlay or looking at the event thumbnails with each frame hoving a burned in timecode.....all clips begin at 00:00:00;00.

Seems the problem is as I've always asked.....there is no program that will capture the timecode from any type of HDV camera.

Do you have any? Does ANYBODY have an .M2T clip captured using a PC with ANY PROGRAM that has timecode that begins with anything other then 00:00:00;00. I can't see how this is not a serious issue with most. I handicapped my way through 2005 without this, I cannot go another year make-shifting the editing process.

- ShannonRawls.com
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Old January 29th, 2006, 02:11 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shannon Rawls
...Seems the problem is as I've always asked.....there is no program that will capture the timecode from any type of HDV camera...
Have you tested workflows that start with Cineform Connect HD?

I read this thread and thought there was some potential there:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=59067

Check the 4th post down, posted January 25th, 2006, 07:07 AM:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Stewart
PS. I thought another fix was for you Z1 guys recently " Batch capture now supports use of tapes with time code starting at a non-zero number"
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Old January 29th, 2006, 02:28 PM   #11
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Seth, yes I have.
CineForm Connect HD 2.1 is nice! I would purchase it if it captured correct timecode. But it doesn't. So I wait. I felt I was hoodwinked by Focus Enhancements who told me the FS-4 pro HD will handle HDV timecode. I bought it, and to my surprise it does NOT handle HDV timecode. HDV Rack doesn't handle it either. Canon Console doesn't handle it. Vegas 6 doesn't handle it. It just seems nobody is able to accurately capture timecode for HDV and PROVE it. I frequently use my cameras in FREERUN timecode. THis is where the timer continuously just runs like a clock. The timecode recorded to tape is whatever the clock was at when I hit the record button. it's my ideal workflow. It's a PROFESSIONAL workflow. It is how it's done for most all hollywood movies....for numerous reasons. I need to sync multiple cameras. I need to sync sound with a Fostex PD-4. I need to work offline with a proxy file. I need to online back to HD for a HD master. none of this cane be done without "timecode". This is really disheartening.

- ShannonRawls.com
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Old January 29th, 2006, 04:18 PM   #12
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Yeah, I'm with you on all that. I've put in feature requests to Serious Magic about HDVRack handling TOD. Funny thing is, it all works fine in DV. It's when we step up to the HDV format with greater potential for wider distribution and higher equipment, software and production costs that we lose TC through the process. It is definately back-asswards. I can only hope that if we keep on pinging Sony, Serious Magic, Focus and Cineform we'll have our workflows back where we want them in a few months.

The only help I've found for synching with double system sound (BWF from 744T) is that my M2T files display proper starting TC in the clip properties dialog. These M2T were brought in with Vegas internal capture. Such TC does not survive transcode to Sony's implementation of Cineform. I don't have ConnectHD.

So, this is my workflow (I thought it would be easier! It should be!):
Capture a clip using Vegas.
Put on the timeline corresponding to timestamp in clip properties.
Import BWF.
Slip sync of the bwf using reference audio for exact match.
Turn off reference audio tracks and render to intermediate or proxy.

There, at least I'm synced, but now I've lost or need to offset all TC-based shooting logs. And I'm down to stereo audio in the intermediate. The only reason this works at all is that most of my work tends to be in long takes of 10-60 minutes.

rant
We really need better tools for TC. These software jockeys can't seem to understand that some of our old-fashioned workflows like TOD still apply in the new technology.
/rant
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