Vegas Video discussions from 2003

Glen Elliott · August 5th, 2003, 08:22 PM

Opened up a recent wedding project I've been editing the last few days and noticed I must have, at some point, deleted the audio for series of edits accidently. When...who knows? But it's gone! Thankfully Excalibur saved me with the orphan tool (thanks Edward!)...however it got me thinking. Does Vegas make backup project files...similar to how Premiere automatically creates a project archive. One in which I could simply double click and load an earlier version of my current project- one which was "before" I deleted the audio accidently!

I see in the directory that I saved my Vegas project it created a backup (.bak) file but how is this utilized?

Dylan Couper · August 5th, 2003, 09:01 PM

I don't have it on mine. Is it only in Vegas 4? I'm still using v3.

Edward Troxel · August 5th, 2003, 09:09 PM

The only files it creates are the BAK file, the VEG file, and an autosave file (for instance, if you last save 2 hours ago and your power went off - the auto save file would bring back everything to the last auto save). However, it does not create a series of backup files. To do that, you must do a Save As.

Glen Elliott · August 5th, 2003, 09:15 PM

Yeah I checked the manual and all pics of the master volume control don't have this. Now I'm back to thinking it wasn't there before.....

Glen Elliott · August 5th, 2003, 09:16 PM

Where is the autosave file located? Can you simply double click it to load the project.
I ask because the .bak file can't be loaded- how would you implement it?

Edward Troxel · August 5th, 2003, 09:25 PM

What are your audio settings under both File - Properties and Options - Preferences?

To me, it appears that you have a STEREO project (file - properties) playing to a 5.1 output device (options - preferences). This button appears to be letting you choose which speakers the stereo signal is going to.

Glen Elliott · August 5th, 2003, 09:57 PM

Found out what the problem was- under OPTIONS> PREFERENCES> AUDIO DEVICE.... my audio device was changed to "Direct Sound Surround Mapper". I switched it back to "Windows Classic Wave Driver" which I think was what it was set at by default.

What should it be set at, and why?
a. Microsoft Sound Mapper
b. Direct Sound Surround Mapper
c. Windows Classic Wave Driver
d. Creative ASIO

Peter Jefferson · August 6th, 2003, 04:42 AM

Thats basically it.
From memory (im not at the workstation), If your running the direct sound DX drivers or ASIO, it will give you these bus outputs as it runs thru a DX process to split each channel, which come in VERY handy. Problem with them is that its either these bus tracks to get a TRUE 5.1 project, or you can jsut cheat and use the surround panner with the MS Sound Mapper driver, which wont give you the precise control.
However if using ASIO (or the DXdrivers or ANY driver for that matter),you can easily adjust the surround pan without the use of any busses, mind you, the pan will be obvious and working with more tracks gives you the flexibility to filter out certain freq from individual channels using smart EQing techniques. ALso its always an idea to run a seperate LFE track and front ch track in mono.
Just merge the 2 channels on the timeline to create your front and LFE track. In the mixer settings in ur preview pane, jsut UNLOCK that bus and adjust gain acordingly.

This gives a better 5.1 spread and depth of sound, but obviously its alot more work than just sticking you panner in the centre...

Peter Jefferson · August 6th, 2003, 05:02 AM

there are many answers to that, however it really depends on the project.

either the Directsound or ASIO drivers should suffice, as they both work well.. Directsound may have some latency problems with Panning while using realtime effects, apart from that theres nothign really all that significant. And if you have an ASIO card, use it, jsut set your altency to aroun 10 to 15ms

Mind you its a different way to track your busses by using that button your describing.
One way to work with a 5.1 project is to have 3 stereo busses

fronts
rears
lfe/centre

just copy the tracks and adjust the bus sends, eq etc individually.

One thing to note is that your image DOESNT show busses being used. Only a stereo track. If thats the case, i would change your project properties to Stereo and output a Dolby Stereo soundtrack. Again i dont know what kind of audio you want to output so i cant say which would be the best way to go.

If you had individual busses set, each track would be assigned to a mixer bus (similar to your image) which could then be maipulated individualy thru the mixer or keyframed thru the timeline by using envelopes (more effective method)

Basically those 3 busses represent 1 stereo track each. You can then insert effects, eq's and compressors etc, to an individual bus OR track. remember, dont get confused as your front and LFE are shared, you need to split them within the mixer OR create a seperate LFE track (which isnt really needed unless youre creating huge effects)

Once you start messing with Vegas audio, everything else will seem redundant... trust me, THIS applications strong point is the audio manipulation, Video is just a bonus.
Learn about it and you will NEVER look back...
Youre just dealing with the bus configs, wait till you get to the encoding, auto pans, effects etc etc parts...

even if it means editing using another App, you WILL come back to this to finish off the audio :)

if you have any specific question (as i know some of what i have written may not make sense right now) just post a thread and ill see what i can do to help

Peter Jefferson · August 6th, 2003, 05:23 AM

and if you want to streamline the whole process, use progressive with no interlacing.. basically chopping your encoding time and space down by 20% as yoru fields are deinterlaced...
This can give horrible results if you have been working with interlaced projects thou...
If working with interlaced fields, follow edwards suggestion and stick with an interlaced setting. If your filmin in progressive or frame, stick with that.

Variable bitrate is usualy the most common encoding method as it saves space, however the encoding bitrates are determined by the duration and quality of your project. Even commercial DVD production is set to variable (and they have 8.7 gig to mess with)
Dont forget to leave space for your audio.

I usually encode the audio first... then use a bitrate calculator (or DVD Architect) to assist in the highest possible quality in accordance with the left over space to determine the final output quality of the video.

Peter Jefferson · August 6th, 2003, 05:48 AM

the autosave project is a huuuuuuuge numbered file (but small in kb.. ie its got a long name with a load of numbers in it)usually found in your vegas temp directory

it could either have a .bak extension

should look similar to this...

0000000909083203841autosave.bak
or
autosave089042905728035708.bak

you shoudl be able to load it, or veags will prompt you to load it then to save it in its original .veg format.

in options ,you can set it to autosave, however it creates this autosave file, not a continuation of the actual veg file.

Anthony Williams · August 6th, 2003, 06:28 AM

I am capturing footage from an 8mm camcorder. I am capturing through the analog to digital converter on a Canon Optura. I am using firewire and have the 8mm connected to the Optura and the connections are fine.

Now when capturing this way the Canon is supposed to be for output purposes only so a tape does not need to be in there. The problem is that Vegas says the device is connected but has no tape, so it does see the 8mm cam. (I always capture fine from optura to pc.)

I changed appllications to make sure it was not my error and the Sorenson Compression Suite was able to see the 8mm through the Canon and allow me to capture video.

I am wondering if there is a setting in Vegas that I overlooked as I would like to do everything in Vegas. The canon manual did state that not all software will be able to handle this function but I can't believe that Vegas can not do this.

Peter Jefferson · August 6th, 2003, 06:54 AM

in options disable "enable DV Device control".
then go to capture and disable "enable dv scene detection"

that shoudl work

Edward Troxel · August 6th, 2003, 07:19 AM

To load a BAK file, just rename it to VEG. Many BAK files are actually .VEG.BAK so you just remove the .BAK.

Glen Elliott · August 6th, 2003, 08:31 AM

Now how often does it create a .bak file? I noticed it popped up in the directory one day with my .veg file. I didn't check daily so I don't know at what point it was created.

Also what's the difference between a .bak and auto saves?

August 5th, 2003, 08:22 PM	#706
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	Backup Vegas Project Files? Opened up a recent wedding project I've been editing the last few days and noticed I must have, at some point, deleted the audio for series of edits accidently. When...who knows? But it's gone! Thankfully Excalibur saved me with the orphan tool (thanks Edward!)...however it got me thinking. Does Vegas make backup project files...similar to how Premiere automatically creates a project archive. One in which I could simply double click and load an earlier version of my current project- one which was "before" I deleted the audio accidently! I see in the directory that I saved my Vegas project it created a backup (.bak) file but how is this utilized?

August 5th, 2003, 09:01 PM	#707
Dylan Couper Wrangler Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia Posts: 8,314	I don't have it on mine. Is it only in Vegas 4? I'm still using v3. __________________ Need to rent camera gear in Vancouver BC? Check me out at camerarentalsvancouver.com

August 6th, 2003, 05:02 AM	#714
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	What should it be set at, and why? there are many answers to that, however it really depends on the project. either the Directsound or ASIO drivers should suffice, as they both work well.. Directsound may have some latency problems with Panning while using realtime effects, apart from that theres nothign really all that significant. And if you have an ASIO card, use it, jsut set your altency to aroun 10 to 15ms Mind you its a different way to track your busses by using that button your describing. One way to work with a 5.1 project is to have 3 stereo busses fronts rears lfe/centre just copy the tracks and adjust the bus sends, eq etc individually. One thing to note is that your image DOESNT show busses being used. Only a stereo track. If thats the case, i would change your project properties to Stereo and output a Dolby Stereo soundtrack. Again i dont know what kind of audio you want to output so i cant say which would be the best way to go. If you had individual busses set, each track would be assigned to a mixer bus (similar to your image) which could then be maipulated individualy thru the mixer or keyframed thru the timeline by using envelopes (more effective method) Basically those 3 busses represent 1 stereo track each. You can then insert effects, eq's and compressors etc, to an individual bus OR track. remember, dont get confused as your front and LFE are shared, you need to split them within the mixer OR create a seperate LFE track (which isnt really needed unless youre creating huge effects) Once you start messing with Vegas audio, everything else will seem redundant... trust me, THIS applications strong point is the audio manipulation, Video is just a bonus. Learn about it and you will NEVER look back... Youre just dealing with the bus configs, wait till you get to the encoding, auto pans, effects etc etc parts... even if it means editing using another App, you WILL come back to this to finish off the audio :) if you have any specific question (as i know some of what i have written may not make sense right now) just post a thread and ill see what i can do to help

August 6th, 2003, 06:28 AM	#717
Anthony Williams Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 26	Problem capturing in Vegas I am capturing footage from an 8mm camcorder. I am capturing through the analog to digital converter on a Canon Optura. I am using firewire and have the 8mm connected to the Optura and the connections are fine. Now when capturing this way the Canon is supposed to be for output purposes only so a tape does not need to be in there. The problem is that Vegas says the device is connected but has no tape, so it does see the 8mm cam. (I always capture fine from optura to pc.) I changed appllications to make sure it was not my error and the Sorenson Compression Suite was able to see the 8mm through the Canon and allow me to capture video. I am wondering if there is a setting in Vegas that I overlooked as I would like to do everything in Vegas. The canon manual did state that not all software will be able to handle this function but I can't believe that Vegas can not do this.

August 5th, 2003, 09:09 PM	#708
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	The only files it creates are the BAK file, the VEG file, and an autosave file (for instance, if you last save 2 hours ago and your power went off - the auto save file would bring back everything to the last auto save). However, it does not create a series of backup files. To do that, you must do a Save As.

August 5th, 2003, 09:15 PM	#709
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	Yeah I checked the manual and all pics of the master volume control don't have this. Now I'm back to thinking it wasn't there before.....

August 5th, 2003, 09:16 PM	#710
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	Where is the autosave file located? Can you simply double click it to load the project. I ask because the .bak file can't be loaded- how would you implement it?

August 5th, 2003, 09:25 PM	#711
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	What are your audio settings under both File - Properties and Options - Preferences? To me, it appears that you have a STEREO project (file - properties) playing to a 5.1 output device (options - preferences). This button appears to be letting you choose which speakers the stereo signal is going to.

August 5th, 2003, 09:57 PM	#712
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	Found out what the problem was- under OPTIONS> PREFERENCES> AUDIO DEVICE.... my audio device was changed to "Direct Sound Surround Mapper". I switched it back to "Windows Classic Wave Driver" which I think was what it was set at by default. What should it be set at, and why? a. Microsoft Sound Mapper b. Direct Sound Surround Mapper c. Windows Classic Wave Driver d. Creative ASIO

August 6th, 2003, 04:42 AM	#713
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	Thats basically it. From memory (im not at the workstation), If your running the direct sound DX drivers or ASIO, it will give you these bus outputs as it runs thru a DX process to split each channel, which come in VERY handy. Problem with them is that its either these bus tracks to get a TRUE 5.1 project, or you can jsut cheat and use the surround panner with the MS Sound Mapper driver, which wont give you the precise control. However if using ASIO (or the DXdrivers or ANY driver for that matter),you can easily adjust the surround pan without the use of any busses, mind you, the pan will be obvious and working with more tracks gives you the flexibility to filter out certain freq from individual channels using smart EQing techniques. ALso its always an idea to run a seperate LFE track and front ch track in mono. Just merge the 2 channels on the timeline to create your front and LFE track. In the mixer settings in ur preview pane, jsut UNLOCK that bus and adjust gain acordingly. This gives a better 5.1 spread and depth of sound, but obviously its alot more work than just sticking you panner in the centre...

August 6th, 2003, 05:23 AM	#715
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	and if you want to streamline the whole process, use progressive with no interlacing.. basically chopping your encoding time and space down by 20% as yoru fields are deinterlaced... This can give horrible results if you have been working with interlaced projects thou... If working with interlaced fields, follow edwards suggestion and stick with an interlaced setting. If your filmin in progressive or frame, stick with that. Variable bitrate is usualy the most common encoding method as it saves space, however the encoding bitrates are determined by the duration and quality of your project. Even commercial DVD production is set to variable (and they have 8.7 gig to mess with) Dont forget to leave space for your audio. I usually encode the audio first... then use a bitrate calculator (or DVD Architect) to assist in the highest possible quality in accordance with the left over space to determine the final output quality of the video.

August 6th, 2003, 05:48 AM	#716
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	the autosave project is a huuuuuuuge numbered file (but small in kb.. ie its got a long name with a load of numbers in it)usually found in your vegas temp directory it could either have a .bak extension should look similar to this... 0000000909083203841autosave.bak or autosave089042905728035708.bak you shoudl be able to load it, or veags will prompt you to load it then to save it in its original .veg format. in options ,you can set it to autosave, however it creates this autosave file, not a continuation of the actual veg file.

August 6th, 2003, 06:54 AM	#718
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	in options disable "enable DV Device control". then go to capture and disable "enable dv scene detection" that shoudl work

August 6th, 2003, 07:19 AM	#719
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	To load a BAK file, just rename it to VEG. Many BAK files are actually .VEG.BAK so you just remove the .BAK.

August 6th, 2003, 08:31 AM	#720
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	Now how often does it create a .bak file? I noticed it popped up in the directory one day with my .veg file. I didn't check daily so I don't know at what point it was created. Also what's the difference between a .bak and auto saves?