Vegas Field Order and Print To Tape

Douglas Spotted Eagle · May 3rd, 2006, 09:02 AM

Dale, best advice is that you use the templates in play from Sony. That'll assure you don't mess up. Based on other posts, you seem to like to tinker, and that's fine. But those templates are there for a reason; it prevents people from blaming Vegas for their own errors.
HDV-UFF
SD MPEG-LFF
Some SD cards use UFF, but it's the exception, not the rule.

Either way, use the templates. The ONLY thing you need change in the templates is change "GOOD" to "BEST" for best output results from HDV-acquired media.
Any test comments would need to be based on factory templates, not render settings of your own creation. Otherwise, there are just too many variables and potential errors, as this thread would suggest.

Dale Paterson · May 3rd, 2006, 10:38 AM

Hello,

OK - well - just for the record - changing the field order - or at least - rendering to an MPEG2 file with bottom field first from HDV source that is interlaced, top field first, makes no difference (although I was quite sure that changing the field order would muck up BOTH outputs) i.e. with de-interlace method set to 'None' - visible interlace flicker - with de-interlace method set to either 'Blend Fields' or 'Interpolate' - no interlace flicker and smooth video.

I know what you are saying about the templates (and yes I do like messing around) but even with a clean installation using standard templates (like I used to create these files) this anomaly occurs and I am just trying to find out WHY? I mean that there is no problem with my footage - I know the workarounds - but I have that kind of mind - I do need to know WHY?

I have also found another strange anomaly that nobody else seems to have (or at least do not think they have) i.e. if I render out to Windows AVI uncompressed and specify 'Progressive' as the field order Vegas insists that the resulting file is 'Upper Field First' when using 'Match Media Settings' in the project properties.

Actually it does not matter what field order I use or change to when rendering to an uncompressed Windows AVI (using the standard Vegas 'Default (uncompressed)' template - 'Match Media Settings' in the project properties ALWAYS detects the field order as 'Upper Field First' and apparantely a few other people on this forum are quite sure that whatever setting they use for field order in the render template for Windows AVI uncompressed that is the setting that Vegas detects.

Having said that I have checked the resulting output files and although I cannot check whether an output file is either upper field first or lower field first I can tell you that the output files that are created by Vegas are in fact interlaced (if selected) or progressive (if selected) so Vegas is actually creating the correct output that you have selected - it just does not correctly detect the field order of it's own output files and on this point I am just wondering if this is a standard Windows AVI codec issue i.e. maybe an uncompressed Windows AVI file is supposed to ALWAYS be 'Interlaced, Upper Field First', and this is why it's properties are being misreported to Vegas.

Also - I am still of the opinion - that when you change the format of a file i.e. for this example changing HDV to SD DV Vegas FIRST de-interlaces the file and then re-interlaces it to create the new file as per your selected format and method. Why else would the de-interlace method make a difference in the above excercise?

By the way - regarding your VASST book entitled 'Boris Effects' - does this cover Boris RED 3GL 3D Compositing? (I figure that because you are one of the sponsors of this site asking this question should be OK here). I am thinking of ordering it from you - just wanted to know if it's any good (I am only able to do basic compositing etc. as I battle to get my head around the Boris workflow).

Regards,

Dale.

Richard Zlamany · July 24th, 2006, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Douglas Spotted Eagle

This is correct. It does not matter what you have your deinterlace setting value set to for your project, nor for your final render, unless you've got a project setting of "progressive" and you've dropped interlaced footage on the timeline.

I don't think this is true. I had horrible flicker in a clip that was reversed.

Then I changed the setting for the Video Project Deinterlace mode to interpolate and the flicker was gone. The render settings were exactly the same.

So the Video Project Settings do affect the render as output.

May 3rd, 2006, 09:02 AM	#31
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	Dale, best advice is that you use the templates in play from Sony. That'll assure you don't mess up. Based on other posts, you seem to like to tinker, and that's fine. But those templates are there for a reason; it prevents people from blaming Vegas for their own errors. HDV-UFF SD MPEG-LFF Some SD cards use UFF, but it's the exception, not the rule. Either way, use the templates. The ONLY thing you need change in the templates is change "GOOD" to "BEST" for best output results from HDV-acquired media. Any test comments would need to be based on factory templates, not render settings of your own creation. Otherwise, there are just too many variables and potential errors, as this thread would suggest. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

May 3rd, 2006, 10:38 AM	#32
Dale Paterson Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Johannesburg, South Africa Posts: 200	Hello, OK - well - just for the record - changing the field order - or at least - rendering to an MPEG2 file with bottom field first from HDV source that is interlaced, top field first, makes no difference (although I was quite sure that changing the field order would muck up BOTH outputs) i.e. with de-interlace method set to 'None' - visible interlace flicker - with de-interlace method set to either 'Blend Fields' or 'Interpolate' - no interlace flicker and smooth video. I know what you are saying about the templates (and yes I do like messing around) but even with a clean installation using standard templates (like I used to create these files) this anomaly occurs and I am just trying to find out WHY? I mean that there is no problem with my footage - I know the workarounds - but I have that kind of mind - I do need to know WHY? I have also found another strange anomaly that nobody else seems to have (or at least do not think they have) i.e. if I render out to Windows AVI uncompressed and specify 'Progressive' as the field order Vegas insists that the resulting file is 'Upper Field First' when using 'Match Media Settings' in the project properties. Actually it does not matter what field order I use or change to when rendering to an uncompressed Windows AVI (using the standard Vegas 'Default (uncompressed)' template - 'Match Media Settings' in the project properties ALWAYS detects the field order as 'Upper Field First' and apparantely a few other people on this forum are quite sure that whatever setting they use for field order in the render template for Windows AVI uncompressed that is the setting that Vegas detects. Having said that I have checked the resulting output files and although I cannot check whether an output file is either upper field first or lower field first I can tell you that the output files that are created by Vegas are in fact interlaced (if selected) or progressive (if selected) so Vegas is actually creating the correct output that you have selected - it just does not correctly detect the field order of it's own output files and on this point I am just wondering if this is a standard Windows AVI codec issue i.e. maybe an uncompressed Windows AVI file is supposed to ALWAYS be 'Interlaced, Upper Field First', and this is why it's properties are being misreported to Vegas. Also - I am still of the opinion - that when you change the format of a file i.e. for this example changing HDV to SD DV Vegas FIRST de-interlaces the file and then re-interlaces it to create the new file as per your selected format and method. Why else would the de-interlace method make a difference in the above excercise? By the way - regarding your VASST book entitled 'Boris Effects' - does this cover Boris RED 3GL 3D Compositing? (I figure that because you are one of the sponsors of this site asking this question should be OK here). I am thinking of ordering it from you - just wanted to know if it's any good (I am only able to do basic compositing etc. as I battle to get my head around the Boris workflow). Regards, Dale.