Help Me Render!!! at DVinfo.net

Fred Helm · March 18th, 2006, 09:32 AM

Shooting off-road videos with SD helmet cams and HD from Sony HDR-HC1's, using Vegas 6. My newbie question is there are so many render options and all that I use seem to be less than the source DV tape quality. Also is it normal to have great picture on smaller tv's but on big screens it falls apart?

Chris Hurd · March 18th, 2006, 10:05 AM

Moved here from Open Discussion.

Douglas Spotted Eagle · March 18th, 2006, 10:52 AM

Very common to have a great picture on small screens because you're squeezing things down, vs being closer to native.
You need to describe what the picture is doing.
If you're rendering in Vegas, you MUST use the HDV render templates.
If you're converting to SD in Vegas, you virtually MUST use an HDV timeline prior to converting.
More information about what you're doing and what you're wanting to do would be most helpful.

John Kang · March 18th, 2006, 10:52 AM

From what I've seen of my single chip dv footage, it looks great on a standard TV set, however, when viewed on a HDTV set, I feel like I'm watching a VCD at it's worse setting.

Of course we're talking 480i compared to 1080i for resolution.

I don't know what kind of halmet cam you have but the cheap ones I've checked out were pretty low in resolution. I wanted one for a bungie jumping I was going to do when I will be going on vacation to Korea this April.
I believe the Sony Vegas allows for upconverting a SD to HD format but not sure on the Vegas Movie Platnum version. Of course any upconverting still won't look as good as original HD footage.

Unless you're working in a professional production setting, I think the only available option is to render for HDV setting back to your camcorder.

Robert M Wright · March 18th, 2006, 01:26 PM

John - Is your HDTV an LCD or plasma display?

John Kang · March 18th, 2006, 01:33 PM

It's a rear projection crt Hitachi 60".

I was looking at footage from my Cannon Z10 with the letterbox format and without.

I also took a look at some older DV footage from my JVC camcorder, which I think outdoes the Cannon Z10, for picture quality. I can't remember what model it is, but it was one of the first Mini-DV camcorders out. It doesn't even have a firewire port on the camcorder!

Jon Omiatek · March 20th, 2006, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Kang

It's a rear projection crt Hitachi 60".

Please, let me know what model number of Hitachi has a 60" CRT. Rear projection and CRT cannot be used in the same product description.

John Kang · March 20th, 2006, 05:51 PM

The model number for my Hitachi is 57S715.

Fred Helm · March 20th, 2006, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Douglas Spotted Eagle

Very common to have a great picture on small screens because you're squeezing things down, vs being closer to native.
You need to describe what the picture is doing.
If you're rendering in Vegas, you MUST use the HDV render templates.
If you're converting to SD in Vegas, you virtually MUST use an HDV timeline prior to converting.
More information about what you're doing and what you're wanting to do would be most helpful.

Oh, Ok, im doing it now. Im using 720 line res bullets for helmet cams. Does it even matter how big and bad my comp is for these ridiculous render times? Im rendering 6 minutes of footage with allot of slow mo and its at 2 hours for render? Pent4 2gigs RAM...

Douglas Spotted Eagle · March 20th, 2006, 09:15 PM

Pentium is half the problem, unfortunately. Yes, that's quite possible, if you're doing slo mo, remember that there are a LOT of new frames to be built.

Fred Helm · March 20th, 2006, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Douglas Spotted Eagle

Very common to have a great picture on small screens because you're squeezing things down, vs being closer to native.
You need to describe what the picture is doing.
If you're rendering in Vegas, you MUST use the HDV render templates.
If you're converting to SD in Vegas, you virtually MUST use an HDV timeline prior to converting.
More information about what you're doing and what you're wanting to do would be most helpful.

Thank you! There was so many options and I didnt feel like trying them all. Im shooting 720 line res bullet cams in race cars and course footage from Sony HDR-HC1's, my final product is good just not quite as sharp as the DV tape straight into composite ins on 60 inch HDTV. I know I dont have the camera to get crazy with, I just want the best bang for the customers buck so to speak?

Fred Helm · March 20th, 2006, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Douglas Spotted Eagle

Pentium is half the problem, unfortunately. Yes, that's quite possible, if you're doing slo mo, remember that there are a LOT of new frames to be built.

Im having new PC built with ASUS dual engine and raid rack. My builder says maximum ram is not necessary and 2 gigs is more than enough even for HD. Is this true. I was unde the impression the more ram the better? (speed)

Dan Euritt · March 21st, 2006, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fred Helm

Im shooting 720 line res bullet cams in race cars ?

sd typically can't handle anywhere near 720 lines of resolution... what brand and model of helmut cam are you using? is that 720 number just marketing speak from the makers of the helmut cams?

what i'm doing is waiting for the solid state hd cameras that record in the h.264 format... if you look on the hdv acquisition forum, sanyo has a solid state hd camera out now, but it records to mpeg4 instead of h.264.

hang in there for another year, and you'll be able to put a wide-angle lens on a solid state hd helmut cam, with no wires going down to a seperate recording deck.

Fred Helm · March 21st, 2006, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Euritt

sd typically can't handle anywhere near 720 lines of resolution... what brand and model of helmut cam are you using? is that 720 number just marketing speak from the makers of the helmut cams?

what i'm doing is waiting for the solid state hd cameras that record in the h.264 format... if you look on the hdv acquisition forum, sanyo has a solid state hd camera out now, but it records to mpeg4 instead of h.264.

hang in there for another year, and you'll be able to put a wide-angle lens on a solid state hd helmut cam, with no wires going down to a seperate recording deck.

WOW! im using Viosport HC3's. The MPEG4 stuff is real bad, almost video phone quality..How much is this new wireless helmet cam? My business is helmet cam/In Car cams.

Jon Omiatek · March 22nd, 2006, 09:45 AM

FRED,

We use sony lipstick cameras(540 lines, i am pretty sure) for onboard motorcycle racing. We have one mounted to the front of the bike and one on the rear. Each camera is connected to a mini-dv camera in the trunk of the bike.

We tried doing it wirelessly but the quality is no where near the same as going straight to the mini-dv camera.

Jon

March 18th, 2006, 09:32 AM	#1
Fred Helm Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: san diego, ca Posts: 150	Help Me Render!!! Shooting off-road videos with SD helmet cams and HD from Sony HDR-HC1's, using Vegas 6. My newbie question is there are so many render options and all that I use seem to be less than the source DV tape quality. Also is it normal to have great picture on smaller tv's but on big screens it falls apart?

March 18th, 2006, 10:05 AM	#2
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	Moved here from Open Discussion. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

March 18th, 2006, 10:52 AM	#3
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	Very common to have a great picture on small screens because you're squeezing things down, vs being closer to native. You need to describe what the picture is doing. If you're rendering in Vegas, you MUST use the HDV render templates. If you're converting to SD in Vegas, you virtually MUST use an HDV timeline prior to converting. More information about what you're doing and what you're wanting to do would be most helpful. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

March 20th, 2006, 09:15 PM	#10
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	Pentium is half the problem, unfortunately. Yes, that's quite possible, if you're doing slo mo, remember that there are a LOT of new frames to be built. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

March 18th, 2006, 10:52 AM	#4
John Kang Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 219	From what I've seen of my single chip dv footage, it looks great on a standard TV set, however, when viewed on a HDTV set, I feel like I'm watching a VCD at it's worse setting. Of course we're talking 480i compared to 1080i for resolution. I don't know what kind of halmet cam you have but the cheap ones I've checked out were pretty low in resolution. I wanted one for a bungie jumping I was going to do when I will be going on vacation to Korea this April. I believe the Sony Vegas allows for upconverting a SD to HD format but not sure on the Vegas Movie Platnum version. Of course any upconverting still won't look as good as original HD footage. Unless you're working in a professional production setting, I think the only available option is to render for HDV setting back to your camcorder.

March 18th, 2006, 01:26 PM	#5
Robert M Wright Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Minnesota (USA) Posts: 2,171	John - Is your HDTV an LCD or plasma display?

March 18th, 2006, 01:33 PM	#6
John Kang Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 219	It's a rear projection crt Hitachi 60". I was looking at footage from my Cannon Z10 with the letterbox format and without. I also took a look at some older DV footage from my JVC camcorder, which I think outdoes the Cannon Z10, for picture quality. I can't remember what model it is, but it was one of the first Mini-DV camcorders out. It doesn't even have a firewire port on the camcorder!

March 20th, 2006, 05:51 PM	#8
John Kang Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 219	The model number for my Hitachi is 57S715.

March 22nd, 2006, 09:45 AM	#15
Jon Omiatek Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 755	FRED, We use sony lipstick cameras(540 lines, i am pretty sure) for onboard motorcycle racing. We have one mounted to the front of the bike and one on the rear. Each camera is connected to a mini-dv camera in the trunk of the bike. We tried doing it wirelessly but the quality is no where near the same as going straight to the mini-dv camera. Jon