Keying with vegas
 

Hello

Does anyone know any other keyer other then the standard one in vegas? cant seem to find any info on it but can primatte 3 work with vegas or only after effects? i am after a add on or plug-in that is going to give me a better key with green then the standard one

Thanks for your time

What problems are you having? Vegas keys brilliantly with green.

And on a curious tangent, does Vegas key well with blue or any other color? (I'm working with a green costume for my next shoot.)

It'll key any color (or range) you specify.

Working with DV, blue is sometimes problematic, because the blue channel can be noisier than the others.

I'm still looking for a project to justify purchase, but *many* people have reported great results with Serious Magic Ultra 2 for green-screen with DV. seriousmagic.com.

There's a forum here covering Ultra and DVRack (also an SM product).

I'm a major fan of Ultra 2 for speed, but I can achieve nearly as good a key with Vegas in *most* cases, but it takes more time.
With Ultra, or Vegas, you can key from any color, but red specifically is the most difficult key in DV, due to the way DV samples. You can easily use lighter blues, but as David mentions, blues, or specifically deeper hues, can cause a problem. This is due to how DV samples. Luma value is the key factor in any color.

Hello

Its HD i am keying with just posted in wrong topic

Any how when i try to key the green out its taking some of the subject out with it the screen isn’t lit as best as it could be but i don’t have a lot to work with it does ok but then when i want to insert another back ground over it you can still see some of the green. is there any way of brightening up the background without touching the subject so it makes it easier to key?

Thanks again

You've got sliders in the key editor. Try bringing the low up and the high down.

Also, you can use the secondary color corrector to saturate the green and only the green -- apply that before you apply the chroma keyer.

Cleaning up the edges
 

I am having pretty good results keying out an object with fine lines against a blue background. Both are computer generated. I am using Chroma Blur, Secondary Color to saturate the blue since it is a "sky" and some unevenness is there, and then finally the Chroma Key.

But now I have a fine blue finge/noise around the object. I went to this forum
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...roma+secondary

The suggestion there is to put the Secondary Plug in AFTER the Key plugin. Can someone explain the difference in what is being done here? I thought you would need the secondary CC before the key so you could get a great key. Thoughts? Things look good except that pesky blue noise.....

No, you need to correct the keyed color before you try the key, so put the corrector in before.

Also, adding a chroma blur between them may help some.

What's being suggested in that thread is to use a secondary corrector for post-key cleanup. You apply it only to the keyed image to try to mitigate the spill. You wouldn't be making the blue more blue; you'd try to get rid of it entirely.

Phil,
the order in which you want to do this is:
1. Secondary color corrector to even out the blue
2. Chromablur set to a value of 2.0 (assuming DV source)
3. Chromakey tool
4. Any color correction for the subject in the key itself.

So at this point for step 4 would I use the regular color correction or another secondary color correction to touch up any remaining blue? tks for your quick responses...

No. Step 4 is for correcting the SUBJECT within the image. If it comes post-key, it won't affect the blue at all.
Did you shoot blue with a DV source? If so, you're likely going to need to create a garbage matte. Blue isn't a good option for DV sourced-material. You really needed to use green, for the substantially higher luma value.
To create a garbage matte, I have a tutorial at:
http://www.vasst.com/resource.aspx?i...f-b305852df8a7

Great tutorial - an easy way of creating a travelling matte. I will give this a try.

I do have another question regarding masking out areas to be keyed. I have this object and I use the Bezier tool to mask around it leaving a little of the blue area to be keyed out. When the object is against a lighter background I can make out the edges of the area I've masked out! This does not seem to happen with cookie-cutter but the bezier tool is great for creating a custom shape.

What is better to use - the bezier tool or cookie cutter? And when using the bezier tool is it generally better to feather - in - out - or both to clean out the mask line?

There is no "rule." You'll find it's entirely project-dependent. I use both, but end up using Bezier most of the time, and feathering is often "both."
HTH

Wait a second. BOTH are computer generated? Why are you bother keying them? If this is some sort of 3D animation you should be able to render with an alpha channel and have a perfect composite, no keying involved. What sort of computer generated media are you working with?

I don't have the source - it is from MS Flight Simulator - vehicle against a blue sky. I only have the Mpg from that. Not sure how to strip it out any other way than keying.

I tried what DSE suggested but I'm still ending up with a little fringe around the ship. This - after using a garbage matte. I'm still playing around with it though. I will post again if I can figure out the settings properly to blur that last bit out. tks.

Ok, that makes much more sense then. Sorry, I just thought you were trying to do something the extremely hard way.

To be honest, I've not had the best success with Vegas' keying. I LOVE Vegas, and most of its tools are just great. But when it comes to keying I stick with After Effects. Much more control. But, this is a Vegas thread and we want to keep it Vegas oriented. So long live Vegas!

DSE - In your Vegas 5 book's DVD, you have a Green Screen sample file called louise.wmv - and I think you put it in there as an example of a tough shot to key. I tried playing around with a lot of settings to see if I could get the fine hairs on Louise's head to show up properly, but I'm finding that task almost impossible in Vegas 6d - I can get a few hairs but then they fade in and out making it look terrible. So, are you able to get the fine hairs on Louise's head to show up with Serious Magic Ultra 2, and/or can you do it in Vegas - or is this too much to hope for from DV footage that has problems from the start? Thanks, Shawn

Shawn, that file is almost impossible to perfectly key, not only because it's DV originated, but because it's a 320 x 240 wmv, making it even more compressed, hence the greater difficulty. If you work with it closely, you shouldn't find the hairs to be difficult as much as trying to avoid the earring that is just about the same color. If you use just a tad of secondary color correction to even out the green, looking at the mask as you do so, you'll significantly help that smooth out.
BTW, Louise is my mom so be nice with that clip. ;-)

DSE - Well I am unable to get the jiggedy-jaggies and blue noise off the Jupiter 2 ship on my keying. I think this is because the resolution of the origianl clip was captured in MSFS with FRAPS and therefore the resolution is not all that great - giving the blue background and extra foot hold I believe on the unclean and not very smooth edges.

The masking example I am going to play with some more but I could not tell any difference in doing that vs. just keying the regular shot. I must be doing something wrong - adding the blur IMO should soften the edges some but using the small amounts as suggested in your VASST tutorial don't do the trick. Making the blur higher really jacks with the entire image. Any other thoughts on this?

if you wanna post a still, I 'll take a crack at it. If you can't get it up today, I won't be able to; we leave for NAB in the morning.

Okay Spot - here you go:

http://www.geocities.com/hamiltonp@s...t/jupiter2.jpg

I think it is just an image that is problematic from the get-go. Tks.

If the jpeg is representative of your originating image (easier to see in png than jpg) then the problem is the codec with which the original image was captured. It's a pretty nasty compression, that's for sure. Easy to key, but you'd need a tight garbage matte, and even that won't cut the forward spill without affecting the landing gear of the ship.
I'd try for a higher quality source.

DSE - thanks for looking. I suspected as much. Unfortunately I don't have a better source. For the distance shots it actually looks ok. It just looks bad on the close up. I will post the clip I did as soon as I finish tweaking it.

keyed sample....
 

my.omsdal.com/thesky.wmv

Check this out - let me know how the spaceship looks...

hey thats preety cool good job. id say a little too on the generic spaceship side but who cares.

Thanks. I really like the Jupiter 2 from Lost in Space - one of my favorits sci-fi ships. The Robot that shoots the energy from his claws is my full-size Lost in Space B9 robot shot in front of a green screen - of course using the pan/crop I resized him to better match the J2 ship.

But the point is that even with poor original spaceship footage - the ship landing in the park across from my house doesn't look half bad - all done in Vegas. Would'nt past muster for a pro-job but for a hobbyist like me it's good. I learned a lot doing this and I appreciate everyone's help and ideas.

Phil,

I think that's pretty good! Especially for fan film type of material. And having done it all in Vegas?! You've got my respect. Like you said, it wouldn't work for a pro job, but just as hobby stuff this is better than most stuff that's out there. Everyone and their dog tries to do sci-fi stuff (mostly Star Wars) and a lot of it ends up looking like junk. It looked quite nice. I could nit-pick it but I think it would be pointless. Well done, and thank you for posting it.