Gearshift and/or Connect HD necessary for laptop, and which HDV capture program?

Alex Thames · April 14th, 2006, 04:49 PM

Thanks for all that info. It'll help me a lot. I'll try it out later tonight and let you know how it went.

Few more questions:
1. Why is 24.000 only for putting onto actual celluoid film? How does 23.whatever differ?

2. But shouldn't I be working in an HDV timeline, not the DV Widescreen? Because I want my end product to be true 24p hi-def.

John Rofrano · April 14th, 2006, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Thames

1. Why is 24.000 only for putting onto actual celluoid film? How does 23.whatever differ?

Because video tape is not 24 progressive frames per second like film. Due to the limitations of early TV’s in the US, NTSC video uses 29.970 fps. So if your video is going to an NTSC TV for playback it eventually needs be 29.970 (or 25fps for PAL). If your video is 23.976, all DVD players will detect this and add the pulldown to bring it up to 29.970 for your TV. If your video is 24 fps, your DVD authoring program will recompress it to 23.976 with pulldown and you will loose quality (because 24fps is not a valid format for DVD).

Of course, if you not going to DVD (and it sounds like you are not) then feel free to use 24fps or any other frame rate for that matter. Just be sure your final output device supports it. But just know that 23.976 is the correct framerate for 24p video.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Thames

2. But shouldn't I be working in an HDV timeline, not the DV Widescreen? Because I want my end product to be true 24p hi-def.

Yes, my bad. If you want your output to be hi-def then by all means work on a hi-def timeline. I just assumed you would be going out to SD DVD. (bad assumption).

~jr

Alex Thames · April 14th, 2006, 10:24 PM

Thanks. My plan is to have a hi-def copy of the finished project on my computer for self-viewing at hopefully "true" 24p (is 23.976p true 24p?), but this is to be shown at a cultural show. That means I am connecting my computer to a projector, which I doubt is hi-def and probably does not support 24p.

So, in that case what frame setting and template should I use as my project template? A custom HDV-60i intermediate template with 23.976 fps? Or just a regular DV Widescreen with 23.976p? Or should I not even try to go for 23.976 and just go with NTSC 29.970 since that's probably what the projector will output? I'm thinking that even if I made 23.976, the projector would turn it into 29.970 using pulldown (or pullup? or whatever conversion) anyways, even if my computer is playing it at 23.976? Is that correct or incorrect?

If I chose HDV 60i intermediate template wit 29.970, I can still play it on a non-hi-def projector right? It'll just show up SD resolution at 29.970? But in the end, I would have a hi-def file/project on my computer that I could play in hi-def on a hi-def screen, right?

And, is 23.976p considered "true" 24p for video, or is it just 29.970 pulldown-converted to 23.976, and hence not "real/true" 24p?

Say I want to edit in 24p on video, so I make the frame rate 23.976, choose field order none (progressive), and don't mess with interleaving and other stuff like that. But what should I choose for motion blur: Gausian? And what about deinterlacing method? Does it need to be deinterlaced (either blend or interpolate fields) if I choose field order none (progressive)? For sure I am choosing field order none (progressive), but do I also need to change the deinterlacing method: should I chose blend, interpolate, or don't deinterlace at all?

I tried the batch render option using the steps you listed exactly to HDV-1080-60i intermediate on a project template of HDV 1080 60i, 29.970 frame rate, Best rendering quality, Gausaisn motion blur, 1.333 PAR, deinterlacing method: interpolate, field order none (progressive), however, the files are turning out HUGE.

For example, using no batch render, just one clip at a time manually rendered as Video for Windows (.avi) (HDV 1080 60i intermediate), my original 52.3mb .m2t file became a 150mb .avi file (with Cineform HD codec). However, that same .m2t file when using batch render became a file over 3gb! Such a huge file isn't even able to be played back without freezing (not just lagging) on my computer. Why does the batch render make so much bigger intermediary files?

John Rofrano · April 15th, 2006, 08:56 AM

When people say 24p they mean 23.976 progressive. Just like when people say 60i they mean 29.976 interlaced. So yes, 23.976 is “true” 24p.

Most projectors are 1024x768 resolution and support whatever a PC can through at them at that resolution. Actually, 1280x720p might be a better hi-def resolution for you to use in that case. You would have to test it and see. Can your PC playback 1080i media in real-time? Think about what you will use as a player and make sure your PC can handle it. 1280x720p is much easer for PC’s to display in real-time so you might want to consider using this for your actual presentation. You might want to start with the HDV 720-25p render template and change the framerate to 24.000. You PC will play it back just fine.

I’m not sure why your batch render is larger than a manual render. It should not be. Make sure you picked the same template. The batch renderer is literally doing the same thing you would do manually. You should see no difference.

~jr

Alex Thames · April 15th, 2006, 10:40 AM

I used a HDV-1080-60i template with 29.970 frame rate, none (progressive) field order, Gausasian motion blur, and interpolate fields for deinterlacing method. I left interleaving and other settings alone.

My computer is 1024x768 resolution, but I edited in widescreen 1.333 PAR. Would playing back on a 1280x720 resolution computer work better even if the projector is only 1024x768 resolution? I rendered the final project as 29.970 frame rate as well. I chose to make it a .wmv file, 433mb for about 4 minutes.

What would be the best player and computer to play this on with a 1024x768 projector?

Also, why would I start with HDV 720-25p and then changing the framerate to 24.000? First, why 720-25p and not 1080-60i? And second, I thought you said 24.000 was for celluoid film only? Bit confused.

Finally, even though this time I edited and rendered using a 29.970p template, for next time, if I wanted to edit and render using 23.976p, would this 23.976p file actually be displayed as 23.976p through the projector (assuming my computer is playing at a faithful 23.976p)?

April 14th, 2006, 10:24 PM	#18
Alex Thames Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: New York Posts: 508	Thanks. My plan is to have a hi-def copy of the finished project on my computer for self-viewing at hopefully "true" 24p (is 23.976p true 24p?), but this is to be shown at a cultural show. That means I am connecting my computer to a projector, which I doubt is hi-def and probably does not support 24p. So, in that case what frame setting and template should I use as my project template? A custom HDV-60i intermediate template with 23.976 fps? Or just a regular DV Widescreen with 23.976p? Or should I not even try to go for 23.976 and just go with NTSC 29.970 since that's probably what the projector will output? I'm thinking that even if I made 23.976, the projector would turn it into 29.970 using pulldown (or pullup? or whatever conversion) anyways, even if my computer is playing it at 23.976? Is that correct or incorrect? If I chose HDV 60i intermediate template wit 29.970, I can still play it on a non-hi-def projector right? It'll just show up SD resolution at 29.970? But in the end, I would have a hi-def file/project on my computer that I could play in hi-def on a hi-def screen, right? And, is 23.976p considered "true" 24p for video, or is it just 29.970 pulldown-converted to 23.976, and hence not "real/true" 24p? Say I want to edit in 24p on video, so I make the frame rate 23.976, choose field order none (progressive), and don't mess with interleaving and other stuff like that. But what should I choose for motion blur: Gausian? And what about deinterlacing method? Does it need to be deinterlaced (either blend or interpolate fields) if I choose field order none (progressive)? For sure I am choosing field order none (progressive), but do I also need to change the deinterlacing method: should I chose blend, interpolate, or don't deinterlace at all? I tried the batch render option using the steps you listed exactly to HDV-1080-60i intermediate on a project template of HDV 1080 60i, 29.970 frame rate, Best rendering quality, Gausaisn motion blur, 1.333 PAR, deinterlacing method: interpolate, field order none (progressive), however, the files are turning out HUGE. For example, using no batch render, just one clip at a time manually rendered as Video for Windows (.avi) (HDV 1080 60i intermediate), my original 52.3mb .m2t file became a 150mb .avi file (with Cineform HD codec). However, that same .m2t file when using batch render became a file over 3gb! Such a huge file isn't even able to be played back without freezing (not just lagging) on my computer. Why does the batch render make so much bigger intermediary files? Last edited by Alex Thames; April 14th, 2006 at 11:32 PM.

April 15th, 2006, 08:56 AM	#19
John Rofrano Sponsor: VASST Join Date: May 2005 Location: New York Posts: 516	When people say 24p they mean 23.976 progressive. Just like when people say 60i they mean 29.976 interlaced. So yes, 23.976 is “true” 24p. Most projectors are 1024x768 resolution and support whatever a PC can through at them at that resolution. Actually, 1280x720p might be a better hi-def resolution for you to use in that case. You would have to test it and see. Can your PC playback 1080i media in real-time? Think about what you will use as a player and make sure your PC can handle it. 1280x720p is much easer for PC’s to display in real-time so you might want to consider using this for your actual presentation. You might want to start with the HDV 720-25p render template and change the framerate to 24.000. You PC will play it back just fine. I’m not sure why your batch render is larger than a manual render. It should not be. Make sure you picked the same template. The batch renderer is literally doing the same thing you would do manually. You should see no difference. ~jr __________________ Developer: VASST Ultimate S, Scattershot 3D, Mayhem, FASST Apps, and other VASST Software plug-ins Web Site: www.johnrofrano.com

April 14th, 2006, 04:49 PM	#16
Alex Thames Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: New York Posts: 508	Thanks for all that info. It'll help me a lot. I'll try it out later tonight and let you know how it went. Few more questions: 1. Why is 24.000 only for putting onto actual celluoid film? How does 23.whatever differ? 2. But shouldn't I be working in an HDV timeline, not the DV Widescreen? Because I want my end product to be true 24p hi-def.

April 15th, 2006, 10:40 AM	#20
Alex Thames Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: New York Posts: 508	I used a HDV-1080-60i template with 29.970 frame rate, none (progressive) field order, Gausasian motion blur, and interpolate fields for deinterlacing method. I left interleaving and other settings alone. My computer is 1024x768 resolution, but I edited in widescreen 1.333 PAR. Would playing back on a 1280x720 resolution computer work better even if the projector is only 1024x768 resolution? I rendered the final project as 29.970 frame rate as well. I chose to make it a .wmv file, 433mb for about 4 minutes. What would be the best player and computer to play this on with a 1024x768 projector? Also, why would I start with HDV 720-25p and then changing the framerate to 24.000? First, why 720-25p and not 1080-60i? And second, I thought you said 24.000 was for celluoid film only? Bit confused. Finally, even though this time I edited and rendered using a 29.970p template, for next time, if I wanted to edit and render using 23.976p, would this 23.976p file actually be displayed as 23.976p through the projector (assuming my computer is playing at a faithful 23.976p)?