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Old May 5th, 2006, 05:01 PM   #1
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Making DVDs seems impossible from PC to Mac

I've been trying to work on this project for several months now and the club that needs the video is getting very anxious - they needed it weeks ago. The problem is that no one has a DVD burner.

I used a PC and Sony Vegas 6.0d to edit my project. Everything is done, and I rendered a video only component as .mpg (mpeg2) with the correct template setting (DV widescreen, 1.2121 PAR, progressive, 29.970fps) and an audio only component as .ac3 because that's what I was told I needed to do.

I went to a multimedia lab today with my external hard drive that had these two files to make the DVD, but it turns out the lab is an all Mac suite. Although my external hard drive was initialized for a PC, I was still able to connect it to their Macs and transfer my two files over onto the Mac hard drive. But here's where the problems start:

The Macs have at least two DVD Authoring software: I-Movie and DVD Studio I think (if I remember the names right). They might have a third software too, but I'm not sure. In any case, it seems like they all can't accept the .mpg file. Furthermore, the lab assistant told me I shouldn't have rendered separate video and audio components (apparently, the Mac DVD Authoring softwares require a file that has both video and audio together, and as a quicktime file).

I assume quicktime means .mov - correct?

Anyways, she tried using Final Cut Pro to fuse the audio and video files together. It seemed like she was able to import the video .mpg file into FCP, but the audio was unusable. I don't think FCP accepts .ac3. So she tried to convert the .ac3 into another format that would be usable in FCP - probably .aiff or something (I don't think .mp3 works either if I remember correctly). But I-tunes and other audio software were all unable to convert .ac3 to something else. In fact, many of them couldn't even open up .ac3 to play it (only one application was able to do so, but I forget its name).

Anyways, my question is how to create a DVD? I suppose I can use Vegas to re-render my project as .mov with both video and audio in one file, but I'm worried. Past projects that I rendered as .mov that were only a few minutes long turned out to be several gigs, one of them over 20gb. So I imagine a 2.5 hour project (which is how long this project now is) will be several hundred gigs, completely exceeding my hard drive capacity as well as the DVD capacity of 4.7 or 8.5gb (depending on single or dual layer).

That's another thing. Which DVD to use. The lab assistant told me DVD-R should be playable on DVD players as well as DVD-ROMs on the computer, but DVD+R was only playable on computers. So basically, DVD-R is better because it's more compatible? Also, what's the deal with 4.7 vs 8.5gb (single vs. dual layer)? And lastly, writing speeds - does it make a difference other than how fast the DVD can be burned?

Note that no one I have access to has an external DVD burner or an internal DVD burner in a PC that I can use. The club does not have money to buy one, and I do not have funds to buy one either no matter how cheap (even $20 is too much). It seems that I need to someone use my PC to edit and render as .mov and then bring it over to the lab's Mac suite and make DVDs using Mac DVD Authoring software.

Thanks for the help in advance.

EDIT: I just rendered a test clip of 10 seconds exactly (0 extra frames) as .mov: 48khz 16 bit audio, 780x480x32 29.970 fps (progressive). I also changed the PAR to 1.790 since DV widescreen's ratio of 1.2121 does not work (it left slight black bars on the sides, though 1.790 is not perfect either leaving slight black borders on the top and bottom, but far less noticeable than the black borders on the sides of 1.2121).

The 10 sec .mov turned out to be 397 mb (and there was very little going on in terms of video, a lot of black screen, title, and fade in to a bland stage, no movement). I can imagine that a 2.5hr .mov rendering like this will be the HUGE file I predicted.

How will it be possible to fit this on one or two DVDs? Anyway to compress the .mov file to less than 9gbs without losing much video quality?

Also, why are .mov renderings so many times bigger than their .mpg (mpeg2) counterpart?

And finally - why do I need .mov for Mac DVD Authoring software if DVDs use .mpg (mpeg2) encoding?
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Old May 5th, 2006, 05:21 PM   #2
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The lab assistant is wrong. I have an all Mac workflow here. When I render the .m2v file from Final Cut Pro with Compressor for use on a DVD I get separate audio and video files. These are imported as assets into DVD Studio Pro to create a DVD. DVD Studio Pro muxes the audio and video files when you build and format the disk.

There may indeed be a problem with importing your PC mpeg2 files into DVD Studio Pro -- this is something I have not tried.

This may help: http://www.uemforums.com/2pop/ubbthr...b=1&o=&fpart=1
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Old May 5th, 2006, 05:51 PM   #3
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Your link does not work.

But, you mentioned .m2v. Is that really .m2v or is that a typo for .m2t? Basically, if I were to re-render my project using Vegas, what file type would I need to render to? And so, I should separate video and audio (i.e. have a file that is video only, no audio, and an audio that is only audio?) to make DVDs on the Mac?

What does mux mean?

Also, does anyone know how to render a compressed version of whatever I need to render it as (and could someone fill me in the the format I need to render it as to use to make DVDs on Macs) on Vegas? Ideally, I'd want the entire thing to fit on 1 or 2 DVDs. And if 2 DVDs, do I need to render my project as two separate segments, splitting my project in half?
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Old May 5th, 2006, 06:55 PM   #4
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Odd, the link works for me.

I mean .m2v which is an elementary mpeg-2 file, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M2V or just google it. "Elementary" means it has just the video.

Muxed is short for multiplexed which refers to the process of putting the audio and video files together (multiplexing). You should have a video file and an audio file DVD Studi pro will multiplex these when it builds the disk.

Vegas probably (note I have never used the program) has a way to render out elementary files -- in fact this sounds like what you started with. It might be just as simple as changing the file suffix to .m2v

See: http://www.mmbforums.com/phpbb/viewt...2b4714a89f1f3e
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Old May 5th, 2006, 07:06 PM   #5
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Of course you could just search DVinfo

See: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=8582
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Old May 5th, 2006, 08:17 PM   #6
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Well, so what format do I have to render as to use on a Mac to create a DVD? For video and for audio.

Video - .m2v? I know I rendered as video only .mpg (mpeg2) - but will that work?

Audio - what format? Obviously not .ac3 though.
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Old May 5th, 2006, 09:41 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Thames
Well, so what format do I have to render as to use on a Mac to create a DVD? For video and for audio.

Video - .m2v? I know I rendered as video only .mpg (mpeg2) - but will that work?

Audio - what format? Obviously not .ac3 though.
Definetly YES for .ac3. That is the only format universally accepted by set top DVD players and is part of the DVD standard.

Simplest way is to render a NTSC DV movie as a QT file and just bring it into iDVD. The DV codec is what all Mini DV cameras record in and is 13gigs/hr so your 2.5 hr movie will be around 33gigs. The problem with iDVD is that it creates an uncompressed audio .mpg track that is NOT part of the DVD standard and causes errors on playback in some set top DVD players.

The work flow that I use is that which Peter uses, render out an .mt2 video track and .ac3 audio track and bring them into DVD Studio Pro. (Peter is right, the lab assist doesn't know much) DVD SP wil remux the tracks automatically when authoring. DVD SP also allows you to set the widescreen flags within the apps rather than doing it in Vegas. DVD SP is a little harder to use if you've never used it befor but is about the only option on the Mac, other than iDVD and a few other consumer DVD authoring apps bundled with DVD burners. The app that played back the .ac3 file on the Mac was A.Pack.

You said your movie is 2.5 hours. You will either have to really recompress it a lot when making the .m2t file so that it will fit a single layer DVD-R of 4.7 gigs, split the movie into two clips and make .m2ts and .ac3s of each, or use a dual layer disc and burner. If the Lab has DVD SP3 you're out of luck using dual layer DVD 9s however. If it has DVD SP4 and a dual layer burner, you're golden.
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Old May 6th, 2006, 07:24 PM   #8
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To do this between facilities without fail, you might go ahead and render to AVI and print to mini-DV tape. All digital, minimal compression, and a workflow the lab tech is likely to be familiar with.

Avoid any workflows that might lead to the lab tech re-rendering from your MPEG-2 file, such as putting it up on an FCP timeline.

Quote:
The lab assistant told me DVD-R should be playable on DVD players as well as DVD-ROMs on the computer, but DVD+R was only playable on computers. So, basically, DVD-R is better because it's more compatible?
Sorta' kinda'. DVD-R is compatible with more players. DVD+R *is* compatible with set top players, but not quite as many as -R.
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Old May 6th, 2006, 08:17 PM   #9
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What are set top players, and this project is too long to fit on one Mini-DV tape. Furthermore, I'm having problems printing to tape (see my other thread).
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Old May 7th, 2006, 12:50 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Thames
What are set top players, and this project is too long to fit on one Mini-DV tape. Furthermore, I'm having problems printing to tape (see my other thread).
Set top is a standard DVD player that might be put on top of a TV set. Just common terminology for that standalone device, since there are many other kinds of DVD players.

OK, what I'm suggesting is not the only way to get the project out to dvd, but at least it would get you into an all-mac workflow that the lab tech should be familiar with. If you burn it to 3 tapes carefully, she should be able to reassemble it seamlessly. (use markers or regions to be frame-accurate in making three renders of less than one hour each.)

Had to search, but found the print-to-tape thread over in the Vegas-HDV forum. Seems like the issue is with a standard-def output, maybe you'd have more luck over here.

Generally, better results come from the second method you tried, which is render to AVI then use vidcap to print to tape. First thing to try when you get the message "could not find ms avc subunit" in vidcap is to "reconnect to
current device".

After that, try cycling the power of the camcorder off an on. Was this an HDV camcorder? Make sure that it is set to standard def DV, and is in vcr mode.
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Old May 7th, 2006, 02:21 PM   #11
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How do I make my camera into DV mode? It's a Sony HVR-A1U.

Also, let me get this straight: .mpg (.mpeg2 or .m2t or .m2v) for video and .ac3 for audio will work to create a DVD using DVD Studio on a Mac?

I can't render to a QT (.mov) file because the file ends up WAY too big (around 400mb for 10 seconds) and takes too much time to render again, which I don't have. I can re-render audio though. I also now have .aif and .wav files.
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Old May 7th, 2006, 03:13 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Thames
How do I make my camera into DV mode? It's a Sony HVR-A1U.
I don't mean to sound short but read the manual.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Thames
Also, let me get this straight: .mpg (.mpeg2 or .m2t or .m2v) for video and .ac3 for audio will work to create a DVD using DVD Studio on a Mac?
ONLY .m2t and .ac3 OR a .mov

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Thames
I can't render to a QT (.mov) file because the file ends up WAY too big (around 400mb for 10 seconds) and takes too much time to render again, which I don't have. I can re-render audio though. I also now have .aif and .wav files.
Rendering to any flavor of mpeg2 takes much longer.
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Old May 7th, 2006, 03:47 PM   #13
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Will .m2v (in addition to .m2t, .ac3. and .mov) work? The first responder to this thread seemed to say that .m2v worked in his all Mac workflow.

I can rename my .mpg (mpeg2) file as either .m2v and .m2t files, and all these formats are still playable on the players, but when I go into DVD Studio Pro 4, and try to import asset, it says all three (.mpg, .m2v, and .m2t) are incompatible formats.

Also, when I said that rendering as .mov wasn't practical for me, I meant that I don't have the time to redo another render and that even if I did, the resulting .mov file would be far too big.

I am using a Mac right now and have access to a program called MPEG Streamclip. It have options such as export to Quicktime, or Demux to M2V. I opened my .mpg file into the program and am currently demuxing to M2V. Will this work, or is there no choice but to export to QT (.mov)?
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Old May 7th, 2006, 10:29 PM   #14
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newegg.

dude. DVD burners are less than $50 with shipping... May be too late for this project, but you should get one just because...

if you can run Vegas on your machine, running a DVD burner should be no problem. If you aren't comfortable opening it up, you can buy an external for a bit more....

newegg.com can help, they will ship fast and stand by their product.

-raza
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Old May 8th, 2006, 04:03 AM   #15
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I use an extremely small laptop - don't know if there's room for an external. And it doesn't matter how much they cost, I can't get it. This is because I've already exceeded my budget and because I already have an external DVD burner back home. Furthermore, I personally do not need a DVD burner, so I see no reason to invest in one if I only need it to create projects for others (at no pay).

In any case, I was able to start using the Mac's DVD Studio Pro 4. What I did was take my .mpg (mpeg2) file and use MPEG Streamclip to demux to .m2v (not .m2t). This only takes a few minutes for a 1.5 hour project. I was able to import the new .m2v and my .ac3 file into DVD Studio Pro 4 as assets and do my project.

New problem: I've finished my project. I've created menus and chapters and everything, but I can't burn it.

I want to create around 20 copies of this project on DVD-Rs, but when I go to burn it says "Language codes for English and English-2 must differ." How do I fix this? Maybe this is something to do with the burn, build, and format stuff? I read about it in help, but still don't get it.
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