Convince me to stay

[Cal Johnson]

Originally Posted by Mike Tesh

How do creative people seriously edit with software like this?

And yet, they do. Like others have already said, we tend to love that which we know. I've heard people argue the merits and pitfalls of Vegas, Final Cut, Premiere, Avid, not to mention Motion, After Effects, Boris Red, the list goes on and on. The truth of it is once we're familar with one system, its really hard to switch gears to another, and we tend to project our frustration in trying to learn something new as faults in the software. When trying to learn a new NLE you're constantly thinking "man, I could do this so easily in Vegas" or which ever NLE you know, making it seem that the software you're trying to learn is more difficult than it really is.
Truth of it is, all of these software packages are nothing short of miraculous compared to what was available 10 years ago, and it really just comes down to the creativity of the user.

[Richard Alvarez]

And keep in mind.

More than 90% of ALL ACADEMY AWARD WINNING films to date... were edited with razorblades and glue.

Just sayin...

[Seth Bloombaum]

Originally Posted by Steve Mullen

...I was simply showing that with media being bits in files -- and with DI, the same is true of film -- it's odd our NLE's are still talking about, for example, "video style" verses "film style" editing modes. The majority of editors learning to edit -- have never edited either videotape or film...

Technology is much more than hardware & software. How we use tech. is integral to technology and our understanding of technology.

And while it may be true that the majority of people learning to edit today have never edited videotape, and probably won't, I'd guess that the majority of editors making their living by editing have cut tape and/or film.

I don't believe that software engineers, even very skilled software engineers, can write good NLEs without understanding where we've come from with shooting and editing. I don't believe in throwing away technology of proven value because we can do something new.

For example, should hard-disk recorders have time code generators built in? The question of whether they function as camcorder accessories or standalone video recorders should inform this... not because we need an hdr to replace every function of a vtr, but because there are established workflows that work, in which new equipment will find its place or fail.

Video/film students need to know the language of the supporting technology, so they don't sound like idiots the first time they work in a professional environments. Agreed, when they are working on student projects with a single camera, 1 or 2-person crew, and doing their own editing in FCP there won't be much application for in-depth knowledge of TC. IMHO their education should not stop there, teachers need to teach employable skills - and that includes in-depth survey of industry tools and techniques and as much practice as possible.

[Steve Mullen]

Originally Posted by Seth Bloombaum

I don't believe that software engineers, even very skilled software engineers, can write good NLEs without understanding where we've come from with shooting and editing. I don't believe in throwing away technology of proven value because we can do something new.

IMHO their education should not stop there, teachers need to teach employable skills - and that includes in-depth survey of industry tools and techniques and as much practice as possible.

I remember when, at an NAB years and years ago, I explained what a "backtimed" 3-point edit was to Randy Ubillos. Yet you could argue being Premiere's designer, he certainly started the NLE revolution.

Much of the power of computers, physics, etc is a world-wide, common, set of concepts and terminology. Terms are created and discarded as needed. If the Avid and FCP adopted terminology that matched the technlogy we are using in the 21st Century rather than sticking with 20th Century terminology -- there would be many benefits:

1) Explanations in their manuals would be true explanations. To say X is like Y means nothing to the person who is using Z and has no experience with Y.

2) Using a term like RIPPLE verses NON-RIPPLE is far more descriptive than the terms that refer to two different arts: film and videotape editing.

3) No one is going to have a problem getting a job! The day Avid and Apple call Bins -- folders, the world will follow. For example, "capture media to the selected Folder (Bin)" will cover both old and new editors. This change reflects that folks are now computer literate BEFORE they become editors. Avid was designed when few editors were computer literate. They knew Bin, but not Folders. Now, a kid of 3 knows Folders.

4) It matches NLE terminlogy to all other computer software.

5) It will greatly enhance the move to new media. I saw someone post a question about NAMING each XDCAM disk. Continued use of REEL NUMBER is like an application that only takes 8-character file names. Media Name is simple to implement and makes far more sense!

6) Always remember, there will be more people learning to edit in the next -- say 5 years -- than all the people who edit now.

Nevertheless, I agree that a common terminology -- based on computers -- is needed so people can move between NLE's easily. This is where Vegas falls short.

It's manual is filled with terminlogy from the early days of computer-based audio editing. (It keeps reminding you that operations are "non-destructive." Anyone buying a Sony NLE knows that.) It's menus are cluttered with options that will never be used by a video editor. (I'm not going to be making an audio CD from the Timeline, but I would like to burn a high-definition DVD from the Timeline.) Tracks have many buttons for FX -- yet video editors almost always apply filters to clips not tracks. And there are many types of "events" in a Timeline -- to call a Clip an Event is not useful. And while sound waves have "envelopes" images do not. They characterists that vary over time -- driven by parameters that are controlled by keyframes.

If as does Avids's Liquid, Vegas could keep its current inteface as a Classic interface, while creating a simpler interface with most, if not all of its audio history removed, and the missing video editing functions were added, it would make more sense as a "Sony" VIDEO product. And, the Sony video groups could more easily recommend a product that offered the VIDEO tools provided by every "pro" other NLE.