1394 Problems & Sony Decks at DVinfo.net

Richard Zlamany · December 19th, 2006, 01:56 PM

Hi, I use a winxp SP2 Athlon x2 4800 & Vegas 7c for editing video. I use a DSR 25 via firewire
with this PC and the the Deck is not recognized, but it works anyway. I recently started using a DSR 11 which is recognized, but when I output I get a device communication failure in Vegas. The output still goes on and there doesn't seem to be any errors in the tape, but something is still wrong.

What could be the cause of the failure?

ps. I had a chance to try the DSR 11 on another computer and it does the same thing with Vegas 6. Is there something not setup on the DSR 11 that is causing the problem?

The odd thing is the error comes up but the device keeps recording without any problems.

Richard Zlamany · December 19th, 2006, 06:17 PM

Nailed it.

I used the Microsoft Firewire Hotfix and the problem is gone.

Ah, the joy.

Dave Stern · December 19th, 2006, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Zlamany

Nailed it.

I used the Microsoft Firewire Hotfix and the problem is gone.

Ah, the joy.

do you have a link? XP SP2 and I seem to have the intermittant firewire problems (mounting, but once mounted, is reliable until the drive drops), but the hotfix I found on their site says it's included in SP2, but I still have the problem...anyway, if you do still have a link or recall how you found the fix, can you post? thanks for the update..

Mike Kujbida · December 20th, 2006, 06:27 PM

Dave, was it Article ID 885222222 (Performance of 1394 devices may decrease after you install Windows XP Service Pack 2) at http://support.microsoft.com/kb/885222/en-us that you're referring to?

The reason I ask is because it says:

SYMPTOMS
After you update your computer to Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 2 (SP2), the performance of your 1394a or 1394b FireWire devices may be greatly decreased. A digital camera that uses S400 speed is an example of such a device.

CAUSE
This problem occurs if you connect a 1394a or 1394b FireWire device to a 1394b port. This problem occurs because Windows XP SP2 changes 1394b ports to S100 speed when you upgrade.

edit:
After posting this, I came across a related article titled "Keep the FireWire Burning: Resolving 1394 performance issues with Windows audio devices" at http://www.digitalproducer.com/artic...e.jsp?id=91360

Richard Zlamany · December 20th, 2006, 08:00 PM

That is odd. I updated to Sp2 and had the problem which the hotfix fixed.
I wonder what else could be going on. Nevertheless, it works.

John Miller · December 20th, 2006, 08:15 PM

Interesting.

I've run into a problem with my DSR-11 that I can reproduce at the drop of a hat and doesn't happen with any of my cams (all Sony). It sounds very similar to your original description with Vegas and the DSR-11.

It seems that after a while, the DSR-11 stops responding to control commands, though the transmission of DV data still continues. Usually, powering the DSR-11 off and back on clears the problem. One of the apps I'm developing periodically queries an attached DV device to get information about the transport state, timecode etc etc. With the DSR-11 in record mode, things start going strange after about 2 or 3 minutes. Only in record mode, though. If I fake it by playing (but the software still queries the deck), no issues.

That's on XP SP2 (not upgraded - installed as SP2).

I think I'll see what happens on Vista and XP Pro x64.....

Dave Stern · December 20th, 2006, 08:26 PM

I am pretty sure that's the hotfix I looked at which I thought was included in SP2 and in fact when I checked the specific files after SP2 upgrade (for vegas 7), I thought they were the right dates, but my firewire problems still exist.

I have 4 or 5 firewire drives (depends on the day) connected to one PC (daisy chained), and invariably, the OS drops one or more periodically.. turning the drive off then on used to fix it (sometimes) but seems to do much less after the SP2 install.

I haven't found a solution yet but will check those posts..I had read that performance fix, but thought it was more related to how many bytes were allcated for the 1394 device name and something about not enough bytes used and therefore potential overlap in device names in it's matrix of attached devices.

In any case, I'll check the above but thought that there were no new fixes post SP2 :-( .. one area where apple probably is better I suppose - not great 1394 support in XP Sp2.

Richard Zlamany · December 21st, 2006, 09:23 AM

John, when I had the problem it always happend at the same exact timecode on both computers. I don't remember the exact time but it was something like 7 minutes and 5 seconds. At the time and every time, the error would pop up.

I am outputting a full wedding & reception today onto 1 tape, so I will know much better if the problem is really solved, or if the problem just happens at a later time.

Please not that latter.

I turn off all peripherals and use a designated internal Sata2 drive for outputting all video.

Richard Zlamany · December 21st, 2006, 05:38 PM

As it turns out I was wrong. After about 10 minutes the same error popped up. The 3 hr output went fine but the error is annoying.

John Miller · December 22nd, 2006, 04:09 PM

I confirmed my DSR-11 issue exists under Vista, too.

I've also noticed that the DSR-11 sometimes drops a frame when converting analog input. For example, I have a concert DVD that I use as a test source and the DSR-11 always drops the same frame - just after a flashgun goes off in the audience.

Personally, I think the DSR-11 has a bug or two in its firmware.

When I use it as a source deck and record to a camcorder (via our software), I don't get the problem. Only when the DSR-11 is recording - which, of course, is most of the time!

Richard Zlamany · January 18th, 2007, 08:46 PM

Does anyone not have this problem when using a DSR 11 with MS PCs? Could it be a problem with Vegas and the DSR 11? Maybe Premiere and the DSR 11 would not have this problem?

Mike Kujbida · January 18th, 2007, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Does anyone not have this problem when using a DSR 11 with MS PCs?
Could it be a problem with Vegas and the DSR 11?

It seems to be a Vegas problem :-(
I checked the Sony Vegas forum and found these threads.
Print to tape issue w/ DSR-11 and V6.0b, DSR-11 and PTT Problem.
In the second one, Sony's response was:
This might not solve your DSR-11 print issue but here's something that has bitten a few people in Vegas 6: you need to specify the print device in preferences as
"OHCI compliant IEEE 1394/DV"
and then invoke the print to tape Wizard. If you have the print device set to Decklink or other...print to DV will not work..

HTH.

John Miller · January 19th, 2007, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Kujbida

It seems to be a Vegas problem :-(

I don't think it is.

My DSR-11 goes screwy on one of our applications. It seems to have something to do with not being able to process a steady stream of AV/C commands when in record mode.

Our application shows the transport state of the DV device and, to do so, must regulary poll the device to get the transport state. When the DSR-11 is in record mode, after about two minutes it seems to get "bogged down". The only remedy is to turn it off and on again.

When the DSR-11 is NOT in record mode (e.g., using it as a glorified D-to-A), it doesn't happen. If I disable the transport state monitoring, it also doesn't happen.

Of all the DV devices I have tested the software with (all Sony), only the DSR-11 exhibits this behavior. I've also tested it with a second DSR-11 and it does the same thing.

Douglas Spotted Eagle · January 19th, 2007, 09:00 AM

The DSR11's are famous for connectivity issues with several NLE systems.
I don't have issues with my DSR 25 at all (when I use it, which is pretty rarely these days....)
I believe Bob Grant has a DSR 25 as well, using it in Vegas.

John Miller · January 19th, 2007, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Douglas Spotted Eagle

The DSR11's are famous for connectivity issues with several NLE systems.

Is there any literature that explains why and how, if possible, to work around it (other than disabling features in software to accommodate it!)

Are there any other DV decks that are notorious for connectivity issues?

December 19th, 2006, 01:56 PM	#1
Richard Zlamany Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Hamden CT Posts: 470	1394 Problems & Sony Decks Hi, I use a winxp SP2 Athlon x2 4800 & Vegas 7c for editing video. I use a DSR 25 via firewire with this PC and the the Deck is not recognized, but it works anyway. I recently started using a DSR 11 which is recognized, but when I output I get a device communication failure in Vegas. The output still goes on and there doesn't seem to be any errors in the tape, but something is still wrong. What could be the cause of the failure? ps. I had a chance to try the DSR 11 on another computer and it does the same thing with Vegas 6. Is there something not setup on the DSR 11 that is causing the problem? The odd thing is the error comes up but the device keeps recording without any problems. Last edited by Richard Zlamany; December 19th, 2006 at 05:39 PM.

December 20th, 2006, 06:27 PM	#4
Mike Kujbida Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Windsor, ON Canada Posts: 2,770	Dave, was it Article ID 885222222 (Performance of 1394 devices may decrease after you install Windows XP Service Pack 2) at http://support.microsoft.com/kb/885222/en-us that you're referring to? The reason I ask is because it says: SYMPTOMS After you update your computer to Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 2 (SP2), the performance of your 1394a or 1394b FireWire devices may be greatly decreased. A digital camera that uses S400 speed is an example of such a device. CAUSE This problem occurs if you connect a 1394a or 1394b FireWire device to a 1394b port. This problem occurs because Windows XP SP2 changes 1394b ports to S100 speed when you upgrade. edit: After posting this, I came across a related article titled "Keep the FireWire Burning: Resolving 1394 performance issues with Windows audio devices" at http://www.digitalproducer.com/artic...e.jsp?id=91360 Last edited by Mike Kujbida; December 20th, 2006 at 06:57 PM.

January 19th, 2007, 09:00 AM	#14
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	The DSR11's are famous for connectivity issues with several NLE systems. I don't have issues with my DSR 25 at all (when I use it, which is pretty rarely these days....) I believe Bob Grant has a DSR 25 as well, using it in Vegas. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

December 19th, 2006, 06:17 PM	#2
Richard Zlamany Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Hamden CT Posts: 470	Nailed it. I used the Microsoft Firewire Hotfix and the problem is gone. Ah, the joy.

December 20th, 2006, 08:00 PM	#5
Richard Zlamany Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Hamden CT Posts: 470	That is odd. I updated to Sp2 and had the problem which the hotfix fixed. I wonder what else could be going on. Nevertheless, it works.

December 20th, 2006, 08:15 PM	#6
John Miller Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Hillsborough, NC, USA Posts: 968	Interesting. I've run into a problem with my DSR-11 that I can reproduce at the drop of a hat and doesn't happen with any of my cams (all Sony). It sounds very similar to your original description with Vegas and the DSR-11. It seems that after a while, the DSR-11 stops responding to control commands, though the transmission of DV data still continues. Usually, powering the DSR-11 off and back on clears the problem. One of the apps I'm developing periodically queries an attached DV device to get information about the transport state, timecode etc etc. With the DSR-11 in record mode, things start going strange after about 2 or 3 minutes. Only in record mode, though. If I fake it by playing (but the software still queries the deck), no issues. That's on XP SP2 (not upgraded - installed as SP2). I think I'll see what happens on Vista and XP Pro x64.....

December 20th, 2006, 08:26 PM	#7
Dave Stern Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Northern New Jersey Posts: 391	I am pretty sure that's the hotfix I looked at which I thought was included in SP2 and in fact when I checked the specific files after SP2 upgrade (for vegas 7), I thought they were the right dates, but my firewire problems still exist. I have 4 or 5 firewire drives (depends on the day) connected to one PC (daisy chained), and invariably, the OS drops one or more periodically.. turning the drive off then on used to fix it (sometimes) but seems to do much less after the SP2 install. I haven't found a solution yet but will check those posts..I had read that performance fix, but thought it was more related to how many bytes were allcated for the 1394 device name and something about not enough bytes used and therefore potential overlap in device names in it's matrix of attached devices. In any case, I'll check the above but thought that there were no new fixes post SP2 :-( .. one area where apple probably is better I suppose - not great 1394 support in XP Sp2.

December 21st, 2006, 09:23 AM	#8
Richard Zlamany Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Hamden CT Posts: 470	John, when I had the problem it always happend at the same exact timecode on both computers. I don't remember the exact time but it was something like 7 minutes and 5 seconds. At the time and every time, the error would pop up. I am outputting a full wedding & reception today onto 1 tape, so I will know much better if the problem is really solved, or if the problem just happens at a later time. Please not that latter. I turn off all peripherals and use a designated internal Sata2 drive for outputting all video.

December 21st, 2006, 05:38 PM	#9
Richard Zlamany Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Hamden CT Posts: 470	As it turns out I was wrong. After about 10 minutes the same error popped up. The 3 hr output went fine but the error is annoying.

December 22nd, 2006, 04:09 PM	#10
John Miller Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Hillsborough, NC, USA Posts: 968	I confirmed my DSR-11 issue exists under Vista, too. I've also noticed that the DSR-11 sometimes drops a frame when converting analog input. For example, I have a concert DVD that I use as a test source and the DSR-11 always drops the same frame - just after a flashgun goes off in the audience. Personally, I think the DSR-11 has a bug or two in its firmware. When I use it as a source deck and record to a camcorder (via our software), I don't get the problem. Only when the DSR-11 is recording - which, of course, is most of the time!

January 18th, 2007, 08:46 PM	#11
Richard Zlamany Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Hamden CT Posts: 470	Does anyone not have this problem when using a DSR 11 with MS PCs? Could it be a problem with Vegas and the DSR 11? Maybe Premiere and the DSR 11 would not have this problem?