38 files - how to make a single DVD arch. 3 movie?

[David Delaney]

I don't have the manual handy, I will ask my friend for it tomrrow, maybe you are right about it being able to do certain files.

Anyways, could someone please answer my question about bitrate : when I punch in the numbers that Mike gave me : "2800" exactly as in quotes into the VBR, it auto defaults to "192,000". Why is that? Therefore I cannot enter in my own bitrate into Vegas...

[Jarrod Whaley]

David, you might find it easier to use a playlist in DVDA. That will let you use your original files, and the DVD will simply jump from one to the next upon playback. This way you can just "optimize" with DVDA and let it use a single bit rate for every file. Another way to do the same thing is to manually set the end action of each clip to link to the next.

There are often many, many ways to skin a pig.

Originally Posted by David Delaney

Anyways, could someone please answer my question about bitrate : when I punch in the numbers that Mike gave me : "2800" exactly as in quotes into the VBR, it auto defaults to "192,000". Why is that? Therefore I cannot enter in my own bitrate into Vegas...

192 kilobits per second is the minimum bit rate allowed by the DVD specification, so you can't encode at a lower bit rate than that for DVD. You wouldn't want to do so anyway; it would look extremely bad. :)

The numbers Mike is giving you are meant to be read as kilobytes per second. Bits and bytes, bits and bytes.

[Mike Kujbida]

Originally Posted by David Delaney

I don't have the manual handy, I will ask my friend for it tomrrow, maybe you are right about it being able to do certain files.

I'll be interested in finding out the answer too.

Anyways, could someone please answer my question about bitrate : when I punch in the numbers that Mike gave me : "2800" exactly as in quotes into the VBR, it auto defaults to "192,000". Why is that? Therefore I cannot enter in my own bitrate into Vegas...

2800 from the bitrate calculator is actually 2,800,000. Try that instead.

[David Delaney]

Thank you, I will try that today.

[David Delaney]

Ok Mike, here is the scoop and it is does not have a happy ending.
The camera DCR-SR80 and software do not support "one touch DVD burning" per say. Unless the contents of the HDD are less then 4.7 gigs (more on this later), it will not burn it and say there isn't enough room. So if you filmed more then about 45 minutes (I think), you can't. I phoned Sony tech support and asked if there was a way that the camera/software would at least portion out folders with the correct file size (under 4.7 gig) for use on DVD. The lady from tech support said "no". If I needed to make a DVD, I would have to manually put all of the files in a folder and make sure the folder properties and files size are all under 4.7 gig (not exactly). My friend who asks me to do this is not completely computer illiterate, but this goes beyond common sense for a 'supposedly' consumer friendly camera. I told them so, but I doubt it will do any good. So, I had to portion out 4 folders with around 3.9 gigs because - and here is the other problem- the DVD creation program needs about 300MB of room approx. So, this leads to another issue I had to work around - it is not 4.7 gigs a folder, but somewhat less for it to work.
Needless-to-say, today, 4 hours later and I think I am recommending she take the camera back. What good is filming a certain amount (AND not over mind you - naughty boy), burning to DVD, erasing that footage and starting over. Seems backwards to me.

Ok, so I am going back to Vegas and trying to render with the bitrates you gave me : now last question (I always say that is seems).
1) I rendered out the audio as a AC3 previously. Is this right?
2) What settings should I have for audio when I render out the VIDEO Mpeg2 in Vegas? Is there a way to turn it off the audio because I have already rendered the AC3?
3) When I have both the Audio and Video rendered, can I bring them in as a single file play movie in Arch 3?

Thanks again,

[Mike Kujbida]

Ok Mike, here is the scoop and it is does not have a happy ending.

WOW!! No kidding :-(

Needless-to-say, today, 4 hours later and I think I am recommending she take the camera back.

I hope she listens to you - and buys a miniDV camcorder instead. IMO, manufacturers should never have been allowed to foist products like this or the miniDVD camcorders on an unsuspecting public :-(

Ok, so I am going back to Vegas and trying to render with the bitrates you gave me : now last question (I always say that is seems).
1) I rendered out the audio as a AC3 previously. Is this right?

That's correct. And as long as you haven't changed anything in the project, you'll be OK. If you added or deleted anything, then you'll have to render out a new AC3 file.

2) What settings should I have for audio when I render out the VIDEO Mpeg2 in Vegas? Is there a way to turn it off the audio because I have already rendered the AC3?

No audio settings are necessary as you'll be rendering out video only at this step.
When you're ready to render the mpeg stream, select MainConcept MPEG-2 (*.mpg in the Save as type: dropdown box and DVD Architect NTSC video stream in the Template: dropdown box.
Now click Custom and then Video.
Here is where you'll make the necessary bitrate changes that you've calculated.
If, as I suggested earlier, you plan to do 2 DVDs, then save these settings as a template so you can recall them instead of having to type everything again.
This is done in this same tab. Go up to the very top of this tab where it says Template:, click in the dropdown box and enter a new name. Then click the floppy disc icon to the right of this box to save the new template.

3) When I have both the Audio and Video rendered, can I bring them in as a single file play movie in Arch 3?

You sure can :-)
Make sure the names for the audio and video streams are the same (such as myvideo.ac3 and myvideo.mpg). BTW, I find it easiest to render both files to the same folder.
Start up DVDA, go File - New, select Single Movie, browse to the folder that contains the files and load the video file. As long as you haven't changed the preferences, the audio should follow automatically. If, for some strange reason it doesn't load automatically, browse to that folder and add it manually.
At this point, I do a Prepare only and use RecordNow to do the actual burn. You may do it differently.
Good luck with the project!!

[David Delaney]

Thanks for that, but alas I have a new challenge - since I was using the bitrate you gave me, it didn't take into effect the 270MB of the audio file plus the MB's needed to make the DVD - now my DVD project is about 4.9 gigs and doesn't fit. I am going to have to re-render the Video portion and turn down the bitrate a bit and see if I can get the video to be 300MB smaller to fit all on the DVD. I am surprised the bitrate calculator wouldn't take this into effect?

[Douglas Spotted Eagle]

I don't know about that particular bitrate calc, but most of the bitrate calcs do take both PCM and AC3 audio into account. If you rendered your audio as AC3, then you'll need to rerender vid, but if you rendered your audio as PCM, keep the vid and only re-render the audio, using AC3 format instead.

[Phil Hamilton]

I skimmed through this so I hope this wasn't already suggested. If not, then why not create a PLAYLIST in DVD Architect? Make it to where you start on the 1st of the 38 and they play sequentially? I think this would be seamless if strung together correctly. That way you wouldn't have to combine all 38 and re-render together although there will likely be setup/rendering in Architect. Unless I am missing something seems like worth a try.

[David Delaney]

Yeah, as Mike suggested, I rendered the Audio in AC3. So I am re-rendering again as we speak with lower values on the VBR so hopefully my 'guesses' will make it small enough.

Phil, I would do that, but the files are too big to fit on a DVD anyways and they want it on ONE DVD - all 38 files, 10.9 gigs.

[Douglas Spotted Eagle]

Why guess?
http://www.videohelp.com/calc
has a bitrate calc that will give you exact values including audio.
Bear in mind that Mike only recommended one particular calculator.
Google will provide you with literally dozens.

[David Delaney]

I am in the middle of the render now, so I will wait and try if it doesn't pan out. Mike know much more than I do about this so I figured his results were probably just a hair off.

[Mike Kujbida]

David, Douglas is right in that there are numerous calculators out there.
I checked my figures against the calculator he recommended and it came out to the same values mine did.
Just to confirm, are you doing it using a CBR setting of 3,400,000 or VBR settings of 2,500,000, 3,400,000, 6,800,000 as I originally suggested?
BTW, these settings do include audio.
If so, there's no reason for it to turn out larger than needed. I've been using my calculator for a few years now and it's results have never steered me wrong.
If DVD Architect is saying that the file is too large, just ignore it as this is a known fault with the app.
I always check the total size of the AC3 and MPEG-2 files combined to make sure that they're under the 4/37 GB limit. Make sure to right click the files, select properties and use that size (it will be larger) as opposed to what's reported in the detail view.
Lastly, I still say that the final quality (due to the low bit rate form re-encoding it to one DVD) will be far less than the original footage.

[David Delaney]

Well, my new settings seemed to have worked and I am a hair under 4.7 so all looks good.
I am "preparing" the DVD like you suggested. I hope this isn't going to affect the quality - and it does say it is RENDERING - so maybe I shouldn't be doing this?

Well, I tried, burned and the DVD doesn't seem to work (tested on 4 DVD players around the house). First time that has happened. Also, in DVD arch, for the first time ever, it doesn't give me the Choice of TEST or BURN, just BURN.

More tests, tried it with different media - BENQ DVD's and it works TEST and BURN, just these DATAWARE DVD's for some reason don't give me the option with my Pioneer burner? These DATAWARE are + R and the BENQ are -R, I didn't think it mattered...

[Jarrod Whaley]

I still don't see why the playlist idea wasn't a viable option. You mentioned that you couldn't do this because your client wanted all the files on one DVD.

And? What am I missing here? Why does that rule out a DVDA playlist?

Make a playlist in DVDA, and when you prepare the disc it will recompress your files to make them fit on one DVD. They will play back sequentially, just as if you had rendered them all to one MPEG stream. It's simple; no need to use a bitrate calculator at all here.

There are other benefits to this method, too. For example, there is absolutely no risk of waiting hours upon hours for a render to finish only to find out that you miscalculated your bit rate and are forced to render again. Authoring your disc in this way will also make burning as foolproof as possible, because DVDA will have rendered and prepared its own files.