720p Project Render Settings at DVinfo.net

Will Hanlon · January 22nd, 2007, 07:01 PM

I shot a film with the HVX200 in HD 720p 24fps native frame rate (meaning just like actual film with no pulldown).

When I render the project to mpg2 for a DVD, should I insert a 2-3 or 2-3-3-2 pulldown and how do I render a widescreen DVD? I tried using the presets of DVD Architect 24p Widescreen NTSC video, but there are two thin black lines along the vertical edges when it renders. I can do it non-widescreen just fine with the black lines on the top and bottom.

Also, I was wondering if my project settings are correct, because I've broke the project down into 7 segments and in order to create the master I have to render each individual segment then assemble, but I don't want to lose any quality in the process (I render each segment default template uncompressed). My project is set to 23.976 fps, 1280x720, progressive scan (no field order), 1.0 square pixel aspect ratio, 44100 Hz audio, 16 bit depth. What should I have deinterlace method set to?

And something weird happens when I assemble the pieces. One segment looks like it dissolves into another for the first touching frame... is this due to the frame rate not being a full 24 or is this something else? I can pull the segments apart, and they look fine, but when right next to one another, it almost looks like I'm dissolving for a second. Just curious since this isn't the case when editing in each individual segment just with the rendered segments put together.

Steven Bills · January 22nd, 2007, 09:16 PM

You can't put a 720p movie onto a standard definition DVD. The highest resolution you can have is 720x480.

I'm not sure about the other stuff though.

SB

Will Hanlon · January 23rd, 2007, 02:08 AM

I know. When I'm rendering it to mpg2, it's at 720x480.

Bill Ravens · January 23rd, 2007, 07:51 AM

There's a fundamental problem in that widescreen DV is 756x480 while HDV 720 is 1280x728. Check the aspect ratio differences between these two formats. You'll find that one will ot fit in the other, hence either vertical or horizontal masking has to happen.

Werner Wesp · January 23rd, 2007, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Ravens

There's a fundamental problem in that widescreen DV is 756x480 while HDV 720 is 1280x728. Check the aspect ratio differences between these two formats. You'll find that one will ot fit in the other, hence either vertical or horizontal masking has to happen.

hhmmm? Widescreen DV is 720x480 (NTSC) or 720x576 (PAL). In both those cases it concerns amorph pixels (i.e. not square). The image IS 16/9, it's just that the pixels aren't square: the image needs to be stretched to true 16/9 aspect ratio. (which explains why you have a 16x9 image, but the ratio between the number of horizontal and vertical pixels don't reflect that...)

In the case of HDV1 (1280x720): not only is the image 16x9, the pixels are square too (so here the ratio between the number of horizontal and vertical pixels is indeed 16x9)...

Anyhow, since both the HD and the SD have a true 16/9 image, NO masking is needed...

by the way: the pixel aspect ratio VEGAS uses for PAL widescreen is a bit off (I believe it uses 1,457...), resulting in the tiniest of black masking. Premiere uses 1,442 for PAL DV widescreen, resulting in no mask whatsoever. (I don't know about NTSC widescreen in vegas, never used it and never will...)

If I want to put my HD to DVD, I convert it to an MPEG2 (obviously) *.mpv, CBR 8 Mbps, PAL Widescreen, progressive (!) with seperate AC-3 audiofiles. Mind the progressive! It will prohibit line averiging and make the DVD look sharper then regular SD if the television supports progressive scanning and the DVD-player supports progressive output/reading progressive DVD video...
- For you guys it's obviously NTSC Widescreen...

Bill Ravens · January 23rd, 2007, 08:24 AM

werner...yeah, you're right///BUT
"listen to what I mean, not what I say"....;o)

Will Hanlon · January 25th, 2007, 01:55 AM

Hmm so do you think the pixel aspect ratio Vegas uses for NTSC widescreen is a bit off, and that's why there is slight black lines?

Werner Wesp · January 25th, 2007, 05:44 AM

Never worked in NTSC and never paid any attention to that, but since it's the case in PAL, I shouldn't be surprised. You can look this op yourself:

when you select the aspect ratio for NTSC widescreen you get a number, let's say X. When you multiply 720 with X, tou should get 853,33... or very close to that number (854 or 852 or something). If you're off more (like 845 or something), you'll have slight masking.

(in pal you should get 1024)

Bill Ravens · January 25th, 2007, 07:37 AM

no, the sony media engineers are quite exacting about their pixel ratios. I don't think they're wrong. I'm simply trying to claim that the frame aspect ratio differences between 720p and DV will require a small bit of masking, no matter what.

Werner Wesp · January 26th, 2007, 12:13 PM

Well, they are - or the engineers of premiere are wrong. But it really doesn't matter. Small ratio faults are invisible, and masking isn't visible due to the overscan of monitors...

January 22nd, 2007, 07:01 PM	#1
Will Hanlon Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 148	720p Project Render Settings I shot a film with the HVX200 in HD 720p 24fps native frame rate (meaning just like actual film with no pulldown). When I render the project to mpg2 for a DVD, should I insert a 2-3 or 2-3-3-2 pulldown and how do I render a widescreen DVD? I tried using the presets of DVD Architect 24p Widescreen NTSC video, but there are two thin black lines along the vertical edges when it renders. I can do it non-widescreen just fine with the black lines on the top and bottom. Also, I was wondering if my project settings are correct, because I've broke the project down into 7 segments and in order to create the master I have to render each individual segment then assemble, but I don't want to lose any quality in the process (I render each segment default template uncompressed). My project is set to 23.976 fps, 1280x720, progressive scan (no field order), 1.0 square pixel aspect ratio, 44100 Hz audio, 16 bit depth. What should I have deinterlace method set to? And something weird happens when I assemble the pieces. One segment looks like it dissolves into another for the first touching frame... is this due to the frame rate not being a full 24 or is this something else? I can pull the segments apart, and they look fine, but when right next to one another, it almost looks like I'm dissolving for a second. Just curious since this isn't the case when editing in each individual segment just with the rendered segments put together.

January 25th, 2007, 05:44 AM	#8
Werner Wesp Major Player Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Belgium Posts: 497	Never worked in NTSC and never paid any attention to that, but since it's the case in PAL, I shouldn't be surprised. You can look this op yourself: when you select the aspect ratio for NTSC widescreen you get a number, let's say X. When you multiply 720 with X, tou should get 853,33... or very close to that number (854 or 852 or something). If you're off more (like 845 or something), you'll have slight masking. (in pal you should get 1024) __________________ High-Definition Video Consultant - CEO of Delimex NV - http://www.delimex.be gear of choice : http://www.wespgear.com

January 26th, 2007, 12:13 PM	#10
Werner Wesp Major Player Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Belgium Posts: 497	Well, they are - or the engineers of premiere are wrong. But it really doesn't matter. Small ratio faults are invisible, and masking isn't visible due to the overscan of monitors... __________________ High-Definition Video Consultant - CEO of Delimex NV - http://www.delimex.be gear of choice : http://www.wespgear.com

January 22nd, 2007, 09:16 PM	#2
Steven Bills Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Vineyard, Utah Posts: 192	You can't put a 720p movie onto a standard definition DVD. The highest resolution you can have is 720x480. I'm not sure about the other stuff though. SB

January 23rd, 2007, 02:08 AM	#3
Will Hanlon Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 148	I know. When I'm rendering it to mpg2, it's at 720x480.

January 23rd, 2007, 07:51 AM	#4
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	There's a fundamental problem in that widescreen DV is 756x480 while HDV 720 is 1280x728. Check the aspect ratio differences between these two formats. You'll find that one will ot fit in the other, hence either vertical or horizontal masking has to happen.

January 23rd, 2007, 08:24 AM	#6
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	werner...yeah, you're right///BUT "listen to what I mean, not what I say"....;o)

January 25th, 2007, 01:55 AM	#7
Will Hanlon Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 148	Hmm so do you think the pixel aspect ratio Vegas uses for NTSC widescreen is a bit off, and that's why there is slight black lines?

January 25th, 2007, 07:37 AM	#9
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	no, the sony media engineers are quite exacting about their pixel ratios. I don't think they're wrong. I'm simply trying to claim that the frame aspect ratio differences between 720p and DV will require a small bit of masking, no matter what.