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Old July 15th, 2007, 08:39 PM   #1
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Getting REALLY PO'ed at Vegas preview

OK. I am getting extremely angry and pi#@ed off at Vegas and it's jumpy, choppy preview. My setup is as follows:

Intel Pentuim D820 Dual Core 2.8GHZ
2 GB 533 Ram
250MB WD SATA HD
MSI Nvidia based vid card with 128MB dedicated RAM (does not use system ram) with DVI

Editing anything without transitions or events etc is fine....smooth as can be. As soon as I introduce any type of effect or transition, then BAM, I get choopy, unwatchable useless previews (both internal preview screen and external as well).

Today, I went out and bought an Nvidia based 512MB video card (again dedicated ram), and yet again, choppy unwatchable previews.

Are there settings within Vegas that I have not setup properly? I am getting ready to throw Vegas in the Trash and use Premiere. Can anyone tell me why this is happening? I am assuming my setup is more than sufficient to run a simple preview without having the frame counter jump 30-40 frames every 2 seconds while there is a transition playing.

I have 2 monitors hooked up to the new video card (as was the setup with the old vid card). My main monitor is an HP 1740 17" LCD plugged into the DVI out and my preview monitor is an LG L204WT 20.1" WS LCD hooked up to the VGA output. I have tried reversing these hookups but still get the same problem. How can Sony expect up to be able to time transitions and FX when this is what we get? I have tried everything from Draft/Auto to Best/Full and still get choppy playback.


HEEEEEEEELP!!!


PS: Vegas is on a clean install of XP pro SP2, with only Vegas, and a few other apps installed for editing. Nothing is running in the background except for a few sys apps and vegas itself.
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Old July 15th, 2007, 09:03 PM   #2
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Nobody promised real-time video with effects. The video card makes no difference at all in Vegas, so you might as well return your Nvidia. The only thing that matters is raw CPU power.
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Old July 15th, 2007, 09:09 PM   #3
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1- Relax! Breathe in, breathe out. :)

2- As Emre pointed out, the video card won't really do anything for you.

3- Performance culprits:

A- You have the video scopes turned on for live preview.
B- Your timeline does not match the media. Go into file --> project properties. There is a floppy disc icon. Click that. Point Vegas towards one of your media clips. It will match the timeline settings to that particular media clip.
C- Anything other than cross dissolve/fade may be slow in Vegas.

4- Shift B lets you do a RAM preview. Double-clicking the transition lets you set the selection to that particular transition.

5- What kind of media are you using in Vegas? What format and frame rate?
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Old July 15th, 2007, 09:52 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Chan View Post
1- Relax! Breathe in, breathe out. :)


A- You have the video scopes turned on for live preview.
B- Your timeline does not match the media. Go into file --> project properties. There is a floppy disc icon. Click that. Point Vegas towards one of your media clips. It will match the timeline settings to that particular media clip.

4- Shift B lets you do a RAM preview. Double-clicking the transition lets you set the selection to that particular transition.

5- What kind of media are you using in Vegas? What format and frame rate?
Thanks for the reply.

A- I am not sure if video scopes are turned on or off (I can only select a scope option ie histogram,rbg etc)
B- When I click the floppy icon under file -->project, I get the following:
"Can't modify the built in NTSC DV template. Please rename it before saving."

Shift-B seems to do nothing for me.

And finally, are you guys saying the this is just how Vegas works? Tha if I use a few transitions and FX, I get a useless preview of it?
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Old July 15th, 2007, 09:55 PM   #5
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Glen, I just figured out that you must have meant the folder icon as opposed to the floppy icon...however, pointing vegas to the clip in this way does nothing different for me
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Old July 15th, 2007, 10:12 PM   #6
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First of all, are you editing DV or HDV?
If it's HDV, adding any FX will cause even my quad core to start slowing down.

Next, make sure your Preview window is set to Preview/Auto. Anything else will cause Vegas to slow down once you add a few FX.

Finally, it sounds like you're running everything off a single hard drive. This is not recommended for a variety of reasons with the main one being that it forces your system to pull all instructions and data from one drive, making it work very hard.
Most folks have at least a second drive for all video-related assets.
You can go even further if you want.
My current configuration is as follows.
Drive C (250 GB. SATA): OS and all software;
Drive D (500 GB. SATA): captured video, audio, music, graphics, etc.
Drive E (500 GB. SATA): final renders.

Last edited by Mike Kujbida; July 16th, 2007 at 01:43 PM. Reason: corrected Preview window setting
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Old July 15th, 2007, 10:27 PM   #7
 
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You'll do better with Preview set to Preview/Auto, and be sure you have no scopes running in the background of Vegas.
Also set screen to scale to window size, but you'll do better if you allow Vegas Preview window to be auto sized rather than you sizing it down. Tear it off, double click the header, and work with that size, rather than anything larger or smaller.
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Old July 15th, 2007, 11:21 PM   #8
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Ack, I meant the folder icon. Sorry.

2- The live scopes preview can be turned on/off by clicking one of the icons on the Video Preview window/pane. If the scopes move while you play video, then you know they are on and you should turn them off.

3- Shift B should be doing something for you if you have a selection in the timeline. "Build dynamic RAM preview" is under Tools. Remember, you need a selection in the timeline... double-clicking the transition will do it. Otherwise it's greyed out.

The other advice in this thread is good, though I disagree about a single hard drive slowing things down. In the majority of cases it's not a problem.
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Old July 16th, 2007, 09:51 AM   #9
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Thanks to everyone for all their input. I should have specified that my Sata 250GB HD was only my video HD, while all other software including XP is on a seperate identical drive.

RAM preview seems to work, although it takes a while to get done. I now have a problem with my external monitor not showing anything at all...I click the "preview on external monitor" button (alt-shft-4) and my desktop wallpaper goes disappears like it did before indicating that the preview is working, and when I unclick that button, my desktop wallpaper comes back, but then nothing shows on the screen...I get the sound etc but no video....if it's not one thing it's another.
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Old July 16th, 2007, 12:47 PM   #10
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Jason - I feel your pain. In my case going from Vegas 5 to Vegas 7 was the beginning of the end for nice previews. The exact same DV project that previewed beautifully in Vegas 5 chokes in Vegas 7 (regardles of which preview settings I use.) Since I'm now shooting HDV I have no choice but to use 7 and my experience is the same: with no filters I can get nice preview (even full screen though only in draft mode). But the minute I do anything to the video, the preview is choppy.

I've got an Athlon 3800+ X2 system with 2GB fast RAM and two 300GB SATA drives (un-RAIDED).
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Old July 16th, 2007, 01:33 PM   #11
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I'm still using Vegas version 6 with Cineform NEO.
It works great using preview auto.
I have version 7, but I'm waiting until they work the bugs out
on this one.

normal disolve tranisitions are fine for preview.
When you start stacking or adding intense plugins it
will make the video stutter.

Using P4 3.4GHZ 2GB (NVIDIA Quadro FX 1300) Del 2405
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Old July 16th, 2007, 03:22 PM   #12
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I'm not sure what bugs or major issues are a part of Version 7. I've been a happy Version 7 user for quite some time now and everything I've ever read suggests performs was boosted substantially in version 7 over all previous versions, particularly with HDV.

Peter
Are you sure your timeline settings are matching your standard DV resolution? This might be your problem with poor performance under 7.

Jason
#1) You are editing HDV which has SO much more resolution to work with than standard DV. To expect realtime previews with transitions when working with that much video data is difficult to ask just from a software only package like Vegas.

#2) Video card doesn't do much at all. Your processor is the real limiting factor here and I know it's a dual core processor, but it's not a Core 2 Duo which I feel is about the minimum to get good playback.

#3) Have you tried to preview the settings at quarter resolution or half resolution? This can make a huge difference as well.

All the suggestions everybody has made above should really make a big difference (RAID, seperate drives, etc). Vegas is a solid program and I've found as fast as anything in it's class if not the fastest and most efficient.

Jon
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Old July 16th, 2007, 06:06 PM   #13
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Its the processor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon McGuffin View Post
#2) Video card doesn't do much at all. Your processor is the real limiting factor here and I know it's a dual core processor, but it's not a Core 2 Duo which I feel is about the minimum to get good playback.
I'm surprised I didnt' catch that. Dual Core is NOT the same generation of processor as Core 2 Duo. There were some pretty major leaps from Dual Core to Core 2 Duo (which used some major architecture changes). Check out Wikepedia for more info. Essentially, the Dual Core chip is two laptop CPUs (Pentium M) in the same chip. The Pentium M is NOT a performance targeted chip. It is a power efficient targeted chip. Also, and much to the hindrance of their performance, the Dual Core chips have HALF the L2 memory that the Core 2 Duo chips have (per core). L2 memory is the operational memory used by a CPU. Direct manipulation of L2 is possible from inside the CPU, but if the CPU needs to access new data, it has to wait a long time to get that information from Main Memory via the northbridge chip (unlike AMD chips that have a built in memory controller, but they still have to wait to talk to main memory for additional data). Dual Core chips had 1M of L2 which is 512KiB per core, basically starving the CPU of fast access to data. This is the major reason why these CPUs are virtually useless for media creation. Anything less than 2MiB per core will hold the CPU back.

I hate to say it, but the Dual Core chip series was a "catch up" step to AMD's (at the time) chart topping chips. The Core 2 Duo has since blown both away (though the benchmark in pure memory access time still belongs to AMD because of the integrated memory controller).

Jason

Last edited by Jason Robinson; July 16th, 2007 at 06:12 PM. Reason: correct reference
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Old July 16th, 2007, 10:41 PM   #14
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Thanks for all the info and replies. I think for the time being, I will just use the RAM preview to check out transition and FX timing, until such time as I can afford a PC that Vegas will perform properly on...yknow, the kind of PC that NASA uses to control the shuttle...
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Old July 16th, 2007, 11:21 PM   #15
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Thomas View Post
I'm still using Vegas version 6 with Cineform NEO.
It works great using preview auto.
I have version 7, but I'm waiting until they work the bugs out
on this one.

What bugs aer you referring to?
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