24p questions

Dennis Hingsberg · October 13th, 2004, 10:20 PM

I was bored today and decided to put together a little edit sequence using the XL2 and post it here. It's nothing fancy but hopefully some will think it's cool.....

www.starcentral.ca/trailers/PumpkinGirl.wmv 1.5Mbps / 6.0MB / 0:33 seconds

Canon XL2 NTSC, 24P, 16:9, 3:2 pulldown, -3dB & 0dB, 1/48th. Manual mode, some cine gamma settings, Canon XL1s 16x lens, 500 watt Lowel DP light with spun and daylight gel indoors, 75 watt yellow flood light and late evening daylight outdoors.

Lasse Bodoni · October 14th, 2004, 04:12 AM

It's cool.

Yi Fong Yu · October 14th, 2004, 10:08 AM

that yo daughter?

anyway i like the XL2's quailty in low-light. is this better than XL1s in low-light anyone know? i have it but i've not utilized it enough to know.

Dennis Hingsberg · October 14th, 2004, 10:42 AM

Well the recommended illumination by Canon for both cams is 100 lux.. but really such a rating is meaningless.

Having moved over from the XL1s I would honestly say from what I've seen so far that the low light capability of the two cams are similar.

Note that so far I have only been using the XL1s stock lens on the XL2 and not the new XL2 Flourite L IS lens - not sure if this would make any substantial difference.

Alain Aguilar · October 14th, 2004, 01:07 PM

Thanks for that clip. I can't wait to see more videos shot with the XL2.

Kevin Gilvear · October 14th, 2004, 01:13 PM

That's really nice, man.

Jean-Philippe Archibald · October 14th, 2004, 01:30 PM

Dennis, why are you using the 16X white lens instead of the 20X new fluorite lens?

Ralph Roberts · October 14th, 2004, 05:57 PM

Kewl, Dennis!

Love her expression when she sits down and looks at the pumpkin, this kid will go far. ;-)

Thanks for the footage.

--Ralph

Frederic Segard · October 17th, 2004, 02:40 PM

I'd be curious to find out if some filmmakers and 24p videographers add (well done) motion blur in post to further reduce the strobe effect?

Chris Chung · October 19th, 2004, 10:48 PM

Is it true that XL2 has no autofocus in 24P?

Marty Hudzik · October 20th, 2004, 12:48 AM

It has it but it is really, really slow. Similar to Panasonic DVX100A in pogressive mode. They call it "focus assist". It has something to do with the reduced sample rate....normally samples 60i images, 60 per second. In 24P it is only getting 24 per second to adjust focus....so theoretically it will take over twice as long to find the focus.

Barry Green · October 20th, 2004, 02:18 AM

In 24P mode the CCD runs at 24Hz, vs. in interlaced mode when it's running at 60hz.

So the autofocus system, which is designed to work properly by getting 60 updates per second, is only getting 24 updates when in 24P mode.

It means it won't just take twice as long to find focus, it'll take MUCH longer, because with the updates coming more slowly, it'll likely overshoot its target much more frequently and then overcorrect and overcompensate, ad infinitum...

Adam Wilt tested a DVX in 24P mode on slow shutter speed (which further reduces the updates, I think he used 1/6 second which means the focus system was getting updated only 6 times per second). It took the camera 55 seconds to lock focus, something that 60i would have done in like 1/10 of a second.

So yes, focus assist is there, and no, it won't perform like "real" autofocus.

Dennis Hingsberg · October 20th, 2004, 09:39 AM

Jean-Philippe - I plan to use the XL2 mostly with the mini35 so I doubt the 20x lens will even make it out of Canon's box. I just sold my PAL XL1s and my XL2 update kit for the mini35 has arrived - so from here on in, its 35mm lenses for me.

Ralph - I tried doing a short film in the summer with her that I wrote but unfortunately ran out of time. I plan to reshoot it in the spring with the new XL2. As for the footage I posted of her, it seems dark when I view it on CRT so I might upload a brigher version. It looked fine on my LCD.

Chris Chung · October 20th, 2004, 11:14 AM

Thank you Marty and Barry,
I guess DVX100A has the same slow focus in 24P like XL2, right?

Imran Zaidi · October 20th, 2004, 11:43 AM

Yepper, the DVX100A has a slow autofocus in 24p mode. It would be nice if it was faster, but truly, you really should get a feel for fast manual focus. Helps avoid focus hunting mistakes that ruin an otherwise great shoot.

Does the XL2 have a numbered focus scale like the DVX? That's what really floats my boat with manual focusing on the DVX.

October 13th, 2004, 10:20 PM	#76
Dennis Hingsberg Trustee Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,055	New 30 second XL2 24P edit sequence I was bored today and decided to put together a little edit sequence using the XL2 and post it here. It's nothing fancy but hopefully some will think it's cool..... www.starcentral.ca/trailers/PumpkinGirl.wmv 1.5Mbps / 6.0MB / 0:33 seconds Canon XL2 NTSC, 24P, 16:9, 3:2 pulldown, -3dB & 0dB, 1/48th. Manual mode, some cine gamma settings, Canon XL1s 16x lens, 500 watt Lowel DP light with spun and daylight gel indoors, 75 watt yellow flood light and late evening daylight outdoors. __________________ Blog: www.hingsberg.com Ultimate Exposure Guides for FS5/F7S/F5/F55

October 14th, 2004, 10:08 AM	#78
Yi Fong Yu Trustee Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Vulcan Posts: 1,564	that yo daughter? anyway i like the XL2's quailty in low-light. is this better than XL1s in low-light anyone know? i have it but i've not utilized it enough to know. __________________ bow wow wow

October 14th, 2004, 10:42 AM	#79
Dennis Hingsberg Trustee Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,055	Well the recommended illumination by Canon for both cams is 100 lux.. but really such a rating is meaningless. Having moved over from the XL1s I would honestly say from what I've seen so far that the low light capability of the two cams are similar. Note that so far I have only been using the XL1s stock lens on the XL2 and not the new XL2 Flourite L IS lens - not sure if this would make any substantial difference. __________________ Blog: www.hingsberg.com Ultimate Exposure Guides for FS5/F7S/F5/F55

October 14th, 2004, 01:07 PM	#80
Alain Aguilar Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: North Bergen Posts: 170	Thanks for that clip. I can't wait to see more videos shot with the XL2. __________________ Alain

October 14th, 2004, 01:30 PM	#82
Jean-Philippe Archibald Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Saguenay, Québec, Canada Posts: 1,051	Dennis, why are you using the 16X white lens instead of the 20X new fluorite lens? __________________ Jean-Philippe Archibald http://www.jparchibald.com - http://www.vimeo.com/jparchib

October 14th, 2004, 04:12 AM	#77
Lasse Bodoni Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 39	It's cool.

October 14th, 2004, 01:13 PM	#81
Kevin Gilvear Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Milton Keynes, UK Posts: 126	That's really nice, man.

October 14th, 2004, 05:57 PM	#83
Ralph Roberts Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Alexander, NC Posts: 188	Kewl, Dennis! Love her expression when she sits down and looks at the pumpkin, this kid will go far. ;-) Thanks for the footage. --Ralph __________________ --Ralph Roberts, CEO 1VIDeo / aBOOKS / Creativity, Inc.

October 17th, 2004, 02:40 PM	#84
Frederic Segard Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Montreal, Canada Posts: 209	I'd be curious to find out if some filmmakers and 24p videographers add (well done) motion blur in post to further reduce the strobe effect?

October 19th, 2004, 10:48 PM	#85
Chris Chung New Boot Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 18	No autofocus in 24P? Is it true that XL2 has no autofocus in 24P?

October 20th, 2004, 12:48 AM	#86
Marty Hudzik Trustee Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Canton, Ohio Posts: 1,771	It has it but it is really, really slow. Similar to Panasonic DVX100A in pogressive mode. They call it "focus assist". It has something to do with the reduced sample rate....normally samples 60i images, 60 per second. In 24P it is only getting 24 per second to adjust focus....so theoretically it will take over twice as long to find the focus.

October 20th, 2004, 02:18 AM	#87
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	In 24P mode the CCD runs at 24Hz, vs. in interlaced mode when it's running at 60hz. So the autofocus system, which is designed to work properly by getting 60 updates per second, is only getting 24 updates when in 24P mode. It means it won't just take twice as long to find focus, it'll take MUCH longer, because with the updates coming more slowly, it'll likely overshoot its target much more frequently and then overcorrect and overcompensate, ad infinitum... Adam Wilt tested a DVX in 24P mode on slow shutter speed (which further reduces the updates, I think he used 1/6 second which means the focus system was getting updated only 6 times per second). It took the camera 55 seconds to lock focus, something that 60i would have done in like 1/10 of a second. So yes, focus assist is there, and no, it won't perform like "real" autofocus.

October 20th, 2004, 09:39 AM	#88
Dennis Hingsberg Trustee Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,055	Jean-Philippe - I plan to use the XL2 mostly with the mini35 so I doubt the 20x lens will even make it out of Canon's box. I just sold my PAL XL1s and my XL2 update kit for the mini35 has arrived - so from here on in, its 35mm lenses for me. Ralph - I tried doing a short film in the summer with her that I wrote but unfortunately ran out of time. I plan to reshoot it in the spring with the new XL2. As for the footage I posted of her, it seems dark when I view it on CRT so I might upload a brigher version. It looked fine on my LCD. __________________ Blog: www.hingsberg.com Ultimate Exposure Guides for FS5/F7S/F5/F55

October 20th, 2004, 11:14 AM	#89
Chris Chung New Boot Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 18	Thank you Marty and Barry, I guess DVX100A has the same slow focus in 24P like XL2, right?

October 20th, 2004, 11:43 AM	#90
Imran Zaidi Trustee Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 1,315	Yepper, the DVX100A has a slow autofocus in 24p mode. It would be nice if it was faster, but truly, you really should get a feel for fast manual focus. Helps avoid focus hunting mistakes that ruin an otherwise great shoot. Does the XL2 have a numbered focus scale like the DVX? That's what really floats my boat with manual focusing on the DVX.