A Panasonic HDC-Z10000 to play with
 

Finally, I have one in my possession, albeit only for a few days, as I picked it up on loan this afternoon. I didn't even have any time to try it before I went out with it to film a friend playing a gig in a Blues Brothers band this evening, so it was definitely a case of in at the deep end. Fortunately it was only a test shoot for the camera not a commercial video so I have room for error :)

First impressions are that it's a very compact and smart little camera chock full of features, nicely balanced and very easy to use handheld. It looks very small alongside the AG-AC160 I also saw today.

I have a 3DA1 and also a couple of SDT750's and the Z10000 is a curious mixture of the two in many ways. It has all the 3D, controls, XLR's, pro features, etc of the 3DA1 mixed up with features straight out of the consumer cams: the menu structure is familiar from the consumer cams, the OIS, IA etc are all from there too.

As I've just got back in and haven't even had time to review the clips on a big screen yet I'll wait and post a longer review over the weekend but the things that stood out tonight when I used it were:

- the 3D autostereo LCD is great and I used it more than I thought I would (you can have it in MIX and OFF as well) plus it really impressed the audience at the gig when I played clips back on it

- the OIS is a huge bonus for doing stuff like live bands and events, works well

- much better low light performance than the 3DA1: my footage tonight will be grainy because the light was pretty poor but it looked like the Z1000 extracted a better image than the 3DA1. It was working at 25-30dB of gain in many situations (crikey!) so I await the full size images with some trepidation...

- being able to get a 3D camera to within a metre of live performers is very liberating :)

- handheld it's a dream to use in situations like tonight and yes I relied on the autofocus a lot

- not sure I got the best image quality I could, need to sit down and play with the camera settings some more. It is a bit oversaturated compared to the "pro" cameras so I need to fiddle with it a bit

Tomorrow I'm going to be doing some outdoor filming (towns and city mostly) and hopefully it will be sunny so I'll see how it behaves then. I also plan to do some night shots in the city centre. I believe it takes timelapse as well so I'll try that out at some point.

I haven't solved the Mac workflow problem yet so apologies as I won't be able to post any footage for a while - I will have to get a friend to convert them from mvc to left/right for me. I'll try and get some pics of the camera itself over the weekend though.

Anyone else had one to play with? What did you think? Anything you want me to try?

Cheers

Neil

Re: A Panasonic HDC-Z10000 to play with
 

Well, I have my play-tool here since two month, and I agree with all of your comments. What you will see on a big HDTV is that the automatic mode of the camcorder tends to go into red a little bit, and that contrast is less compared with most consumer camcorders. The use of the professional scene files are a great opportinity to adjust that in every way somebody wants.

The convergence wheel is a little bit tiny, and to run the camcorder in the manual mode - here I still think about what functions I should allocate to the 3 manual bottoms. At the moment I have here 3D, Convergence reset and push autofocus.... in addition I would like to have the autofocus assistent, and so I miss one manual bottom. But that is all what I miss with that camcorder.

Re: A Panasonic HDC-Z10000 to play with
 

I checked Vimeo and YouTube and didn't find any, so anyone have some links to nice looking 2D or 3D Z10000 footage? Everything I've seen so far looked very saturated and contrasty with little detail.

Re: A Panasonic HDC-Z10000 to play with
 

My Z10K will be here on Wed. I'll try some comparative shots with the NX3D1 and post the results.

As someone else mentioned, the AVS forum is pretty active on the Panny Z10K camera. See ... Panasonic-hdc-z10000-3d-camcorder - Page 6 - AVS Forum

Re: A Panasonic HDC-Z10000 to play with
 

Thanks David, I'll look forward to seeing the comparison. You'd think Panasonic would put out some example footage.

Re: A Panasonic HDC-Z10000 to play with
 

There's a useful collection of clips on the AVS Forum. Wolfgang, I believe that some are from you, correct?

Re: A Panasonic HDC-Z10000 to play with
 

I saw some links to some MTS files, but they are on some website that throws up a number of popups so I didn't pursue that any farther. Some free file sharing site I suppose.

Re: A Panasonic HDC-Z10000 to play with
 

It's not so bad - just find the download button for the files themselves. It rankled me at first too. It's worth it, however. It's a nice test bracket of settings.

Re: A Panasonic HDC-Z10000 to play with
 

OK I revisited that download site and found the right link. Sneaky devils. Next hurdle, I thought I could just log and transfer that MTS file into FCP 6 (the 2D clip) but no go, have to look into that. Thanks for the tip re the download. I have an old version of Vegas I can upgrade if I decide to proceed with this project.

Re: A Panasonic HDC-Z10000 to play with
 

Hi team, sorry for the long pregnant pause, have been a bit busy.

I finished my 4-day Z10k trial, shot a lot of footage, and have also started filming a 3D educational drama film for a local charity, with both the Z10k and the 3DA1. I've not yet got my edit flow in place but the way I'm proposing to to do this is using VirtualBox from Oracle on the Mac plus WIn7 and then a copy of the 3D Edius trial - very impressed with how straightforward this seems to be to use and it's not expensive (in fact it's free on a 30-day rolling trial at the moment :) ). I like the native format editing straight on the timeline.

Also been to BVE in London for the last few days and had a great time there, even got o play with a 3DP1 finally plus a few mirror rigs. The Holdan stand (i10) was running some of my Z10k footage on a couple of their demo's.

By the way, the little JVC 4K camera is mind-bendingly amazing but oh how I wish they'd put a genlock input on it....!!! The 4K pictures they were running (straight out of the camera, un-edited) were simply gorgeous, even though the 4k projector was $60k ... :)

Re: A Panasonic HDC-Z10000 to play with
 

No luck with those mts files on AVS forum. MPEG Streamclip returns errors when trying to convert which I think means it needs some metadata that isn't present. So if anyone gets around to putting up some footage in a more generic format please let me know.

Also, there were references to 24p footage not being handled by Vegas. Is that still an issue? Should I be looking at Edius?

Re: A Panasonic HDC-Z10000 to play with
 

For Vegas Pro 11, every Z10000 format can be edited (1080 24p, 1080 50i, 1080 25p for the PAL version for sure, but it will not be different for the NTSC version). There has been a new MVC-Decoder since build 510/511 of Vegas Pro 11.

For earlier versions of Vegas Pro, you are right - the MVC decoder will not handle the Z10000 footage in a correct way (especially not the 1080 24p and the 1080 25p footage), beside the 1080 50i/60i footage what is compatible with the Sony TD10.

If somebody uses Vegas Moviestudio HD Platinum 11, what you can do is to take the MVC-Decoder from the 32 bit version of Vegas Pro 11 - that works fine too.

Re: A Panasonic HDC-Z10000 to play with
 

Thank you. That helps.

Re: A Panasonic HDC-Z10000 to play with
 

Here is a real Z10000 video, not some brief clips of someone's living room (but no claim to a great piece of art either), so you can better judge what the Z1000 does, in bright light. The scene used is standard HD. Also manual iris, shutter fixed at 1/120th, autoWB.

On Vimeo, you can download the original MVC file that I uploaded, which contains both lens views. Vimeo is playing the 2D left lens video. The 3D video was shot in 108060i, MVC. The uploaded file underwent NO conversion, so it is what the camera produces, given the camera settings. You have to go the site where the video is, and there you can right click 'download this video." The 0.82GB *original* MVC stereo file will then download.


To see it in 3D, here is the link to Youtube, which is using a converted 1/2-frame sbs version of the original MVC file:

Panasonic Z10000 3D Test Video: College Softball, Part 1 - Pre-Game - YouTube

Re: A Panasonic HDC-Z10000 to play with
 

"Here is a real Z10000 video, not some brief clips of someone's living room .... The uploaded file underwent NO conversion, so it is what the camera produces, given the camera settings."

That is not real Z10K footage, but was converted too! For example to anaglyphic material. Sorry to say so but youtube or vimeo are not usefull to assess original footage really.

"Real", original Z10k footage on the Vimeo site
 

"That is not real Z10K footage, but was converted too! For example to anaglyphic material. Sorry to say so but youtube or vimeo are not usefull to assess original footage really."

Wolfgang, I am surprised you do not know better! "real" Z10k footage is available from the Vimeo site.

I am sorry to say, but you do not understand. I apologize for not being clear (actually it is very clearly said the Youtube video is converted), but you also do not evidently understand what *Vimeo* offers:

1. Yes, Youtube converts. But whether you see it in anaglyph or sbs or cross-eyed or horizontal interleaved is your choice not Youtube's. I posted to Youtube so people could at least see in 3D, in the method of their choice.

2. But, as I said, you can download the *original* clip from the Vimeo site. It is there to download if you go to the site. Vimeo converts for *streaming.* But as a Plus member, the *original* video I post is supposed to be made available for downloading. It is not converted; it is the original mts file, of 824.1MB. Did you go to the site and look? I checked, and it is there and it is the original MVC file with both embedded views.

Unlike the sites you place your clips on, there are no misleading and annoying ad clicks or popups on the Vimeo site. I pay good money each year to Vimeo so people can download original clips I upload easily and without danger.

You can still edit your reply so viewers are not confused by your incorrect statements, and you can avoid embarrassment. I will try to make my post clearer. Ok? Then download the original mvc video, if you want, and I am sure we will benefit from your comments.

Re: A Panasonic HDC-Z10000 to play with
 

A tripod would help too.

Paul :-)

Re: A Panasonic HDC-Z10000 to play with
 

And I am surprised that you do not know that you have to login to download a file. So a download is not possible without an account, and that requires at least that you register with an email adress. Even if you pay good money for their service.

Well, my downloads need no registration - at least. But that is not important really.

Beside that is the question how the mvc file was edited - since I still say that an assessment would be possible with native footage only. But maybe that is fine?

Re: A Panasonic HDC-Z10000 to play with
 

1. Yes, I know you have to register. Most people in this forum and over at avs forum know about Vimeo. They post there and have downloaded videos from the site. I agree one can be wary of registering, but before I paid I had registered and never had any e-mails from Vimeo. It is a well-respected site. If you register, you can also upload your own videos for free and the originals will be available for a week for people to download. No pop-ups, link traps or anything untoward.

2. As I have directly responded to you in the past, HD Writer and PMB, the software provided with Panasonic and Sony cameras respectively, allow merging and trimming without recompression - smart rendering. The file I uploaded has had no conversion whatsoever - it is essentially trimmed and joined original clips. While Vegas Pro, your beloved software (I use it too), does not do smart rendering, these programs do. You can check with mediainfo to see that the file has exactly the same specs as any individual clip.

The point is to show what the camera produces (with a particular scene file) in real use, without any changes in post.

Re: A Panasonic HDC-Z10000 to play with
 

Well, then it should be nice for that forum. For my part, I prefer to stay without a Vimeo account - but I know the footage of the Z10K quite well. Have fun with it.

Re: A Panasonic HDC-Z10000 to play with
 

I just returned from a tiger shark shoot with a Z10K, Sony NX3D1 and a bunch of GoPro Hero1s and 2s. The Panny Z10K, with manual white balance outperformed the others by light years. The image is superior in every way. It resolves a quality image from MUCH further away than the Sony.

If you're in the market for an underwater 3D camcorder, I think the Z10K is the goto cam.

By the way, apparently GoPros on the end of a pole look like bait to tiger sharks :-)

Re: A Panasonic HDC-Z10000 to play with
 

Which underwater housing did you use for it David?

I've just got details of this one specifically for the Z10000 although it's not quite available yet at least in the UK: ewa-marine VPZ1

Neil

Re: A Panasonic HDC-Z10000 to play with
 

I used a housing from Aquavideo (AquaVideo Underwater Video Camcorder Housings for Scuba, Commercial Diving and Broadcast Television. Video Camera Cases for Underwater Photography). They have housings for the Sony HXR-NX3D1 as well. As I'm almost always deeper than 30 feet, the bag-style housing won't work for me... and, it's handy to have something solid between me and the sharks :-)

Re: A Panasonic HDC-Z10000 to play with
 

Thanks for that - nice piece of kit and not overly expensive for a non-bag housing.

I'm not a diver, but would like to do some on-boat shots and shallow water stuff.

Re: A Panasonic HDC-Z10000 to play with
 

Neil,
I've also had a chance to play with the Z10000 and aside from its numerous quirks ( mainly menu buttons and options that are way to easy to hit accidently) I liked it a great deal and because of the smaller IA thought it was the first camcorder 3D camera I could really use on a documentary. As I can't afford 28,000 for the new Sony and the Nex camera was a toy I'm thinking of buying.

I didn't get to look at the footage much in post though and I'm wondering how well you think it holds up in quality next to the 3DA1. Also how have you been doing with the workflow?

Re: A Panasonic HDC-Z10000 to play with
 

I'll receive new Cyclopital3D wide-angle adapters for my Z10Ks on Wed! Shooting a 3D kids dolphin TV show in Cozumel the following week. I'm excited to get these underwater. The expanded FOV (78 degrees) will REALLY help!!!!

I'll report back w/ some clips.

David Cole
www.beampath3d.com

Re: A Panasonic HDC-Z10000 to play with
 

I have been playing with these cameras for a while (3D that is). I haven't tried this camera just yet but am looking to give it a try. Looks promising. Has anyone used it for weddings?

Saturn Entertainment Studios Wedding Videography & Commercial Video Production Services

Re: A Panasonic HDC-Z10000 to play with
 

Crikey, this is an old thread forgot all about it.

Actually, by a strange coincidence, I did shoot a wedding with my Z10000 about two weeks ago, first time ever and done as a favour as it's not part of my business. I used it locked off on a tripod for the ceremony and then on a Glidecam 4000 for wandering around amongst the guests. I actually really enjoyed it and think its an ideal camera for doing his type of shooting in 3D. The images came out nicely (the sun shone at least) and my friend doing the edit is very pleased with the 3D we got out of it. Don't know what the bride and groom think of it yet though.

Leonard: sorry for being rude and not replying to your post. I suspect we've covered this elsewhere but I think the image quality of the 3DA1 is better than the Z10k, at least I like the images better as they seem crisper and more detailed, but against this you have to balance the wider angle lens and narrower IA on the Z10k which makes it a more useful all-rounder from a 3D point of view. I'm still trying to find the best way to match the two, though, not quite got them to blend completely in post yet. As far as workflow is concerned do all the Z10k work in Edius, running Wn7 under Parallels on a Mac, but I think I've bored everyone with that enough elsewhere.

David: how are you getting on with the Cyclopital adapters? Any comments, or video we can look at?

Cheers

Neil

Re: A Panasonic HDC-Z10000 to play with
 

I'm LOVING the adapters. I initially bought them for UW shooting (where they are absolutely indispensable), but, now shoot the majority of the topside stuff with them on as well. One very minor caveat is that you need to disable the image stabilizer to avoid possible vignetting on extreme movement.

I'll post some tiger shark footage this weekend.

Re: A Panasonic HDC-Z10000 to play with
 

Thanks David - funny, I just saw your post on CML about it as well.

Can you post some pics of the adapter fitted on the Z10k? Just wondered what it looked like. What do you do for ND filters etc once it's fitted, any solutions?

Thanks

Neil

Re: A Panasonic HDC-Z10000 to play with
 

Here's a little footage from the Z10K w/ Cyc3D wide-angle adapter installed: Tiger Shark SxS - YouTube

I'll try to snap a shot of a camera in the next day or so.

-- David