Saving my back and getting good shots
 

I have a Panasonic DVX-100 that I am using for some run and gun documentary work. On a recent shoot I was trying to capture pretty much everything that the talent was saying while moving around. After about 10-20 minutes, my back was getting really sore.

I have been researching various camera support systems for some time, but I am having trouble making up my mind.

My requirements are:

1. Support the camera to keep minimal stress on my back/arms.
2. Provide steady shots, at a minimum when the camera is held still. At least as good as shoulder mounted cameras used in ENG work.
3. Allow a fairly full range of movement for high, low, over a table, dutch angles, etc.
4. Ability to mount/dismount quickly. Often I will need to move the camera between a tripod and the support system quickly.

I have pretty much ruled out anything that is totally arm supported. I have a Steaditracker but found that it does not do a very good job and is very tiring to use. That leaves me with the following options:

A. Rigs that make the handheld camera act like a shoulder mount.

These rigs should save my back and some come with a quick release plate that will allow me to quickly mount/dismount the camera. The disadvantage is somewhat limited camera movement and still shaky video during camera moves.

I have looked at the Varizoom, but the DvRigPro seems to be the best that I have seen online.It has limited distribution in the US. ( www.dvtec.tv) and I don't know of anyone (other than the salesman) that have used it.

B. Steadicam/Glidecam, etc.

These will obviously get the best shots, but from everything that I have read, it can take up to 30 minutes to mount and balance the camera. I would probably go this route, if I was convinced that I could mount and balance quickly.

I am not worried about spending the money on a system as long as it really does the job. So, I am looking for advice, suggestions, etc. on what rigs would best meet my needs.

Thanks,

Randall

Randall,

If you don't mind shelling out the money, then by all means go with a Steadicam.

I have a Glidecam and also the Varizoom rig. I use them both because they serve different purposes. When I want to go light and not be loaded down with a steady rig, the Varizoom works fine. The gut rest is really handy in keeping down arm fatigue, too.

But someday...if I'm a very good boy, maybe I'll be able to get a Steadicam.

Try the Marzpak. I'm 58 with CHF and this thing is a breeze yo use. I carry a VX2K with a WA adapter, a 4x4 matte box and audio gear and it's easy to keep going. At $400, it's the best money I've spent (and I'm cheap).

The workmanship is superb. they're handbuilt by the wife of one of our members. The lady uses this rig for her filed work in nature videography. Her attention to detail and customer service is second to none.

It's a lot better deal than any of the shoulder rigs.

Give the site a read
http://www.marztech.com/

Randall:

I think overall I'd agree with Bryan although I'm not an expert on all of the options out there.

Regarding a Steadicam-type system, once you have set up your own rig to your own camera it shouldn't take that long to mount and balance. It depends on the manufacturer. A tools-free setup like on the Steadicams (the Mini would be the rig in this weight class) would be fastest. With some practice, you could get it down to five minutes or so. But transporting the gear around when you are not using it during a shoot is cumbersome.

I may have read the post wrong, but it sounds like he wants a steady camera platform and not some weightlifters bad dream.

He has a sore back and wants to get the weight off of it.

<<< not some weightlifters bad dream.

He has a sore back and wants to get the weight off of it. -->>>

Which was the bad dream again???!

Well, to me a camera that can only be held in the hands with no provision for shoulder relief will cause eventual stress on the arms and upper back (between the shoulder blades etc.). It's a very unnatural position, to hold a camera steady with all the weight leveraged in the front. I think of it as the DV curse--this 4 lb cameras that are more uncomfortable after a few minutes than a 22 lb Betacam, which nestles nicely on the shoulder. Then there's all these aftermarket shoulder braces with huge handgrips that don't really address the issue of a (proportionally-speaking) absurdly front-heavy camera system.

The Marztech is a sensible choice.

As Charles says, all of these shoulder mounts seem to add more weight to the front of the rig. My last comment was disjointed and may have been miscontrued as argumentative. That wasn't intended.

Charles is somewhat of an authority on weight balance so listen closely.

I was refering to some of the mini stabilizing rigs available, when i spoke of a bad dream. (bricks duct taped to galvanized pipe etc )

I had not seen the Marzpak. My first reaction when looking at it was that it looks like some kind of orthipedic device that my doctor would perscribe!

It is easy to see how it works to take the weight of the camera off of my arms. I had been concerned with some of the other shoulder mount systems in that there was not enough counter weight to balance the camera. That is probably why many of them have ab braces.

Bryan, do you use and recommend the mini-stabilizer weight under the camera as well with the Marzpak?

Thanks for the pointer to the Marzpak!

Randall

Randall,

My apologies, too. I didn't realize we were talking about a "bad back." I thought you were just talking about soreness caused by using support that's short of being top of the line.

That's why I recommended the Steadicam. It's the Holy Grail, I think, for most camera operators...but not so many can afford it. Sure, it'll kill your back the first few times you use it, but then after awhile you'd get used to it. It depends on your intended usage...that'd be expensive overkill for anything other than professional work.

As Bryan says, though...listen to Charles.

I don't need any counterweights with my rig, it works just fine. Vx2K with big battery, cavision 4x4 bellows with support rods and an on camera mic.

I had bought a manfrotto universal quick release with the intention of mounting two 2.5 lb caste weights under it. if i'm going to mount anything to the underside of my camera it's going to have something between it and tripod thread just for safety.

The added weight of all my stuff sure help though. It almost seems the heavier the better.

Once you see this sucker you'll forget all about the orthopaedic likeness.

Monopod.

Thanks Bryan!

One more question. Does the cord simply streach as you pull the camera down? If you are not holding the camera does it just find its balance point and stay there?

The biggest problem that I have with a monopod is that the pod limits the ability to move the camera up/down and side to side with out tilting.

Thanks,

Randall

It can be tricky, but I've found it pretty useful for documentary work. If you need to drop down quick, you can loosen the vertical pan knob on the head and just let the leg kick out in front of you. What I like best is that when you're not shooting, you can keep the camera in position with no effort -- you're always ready. Monopods really encourage low angle shots too.

The Marzpak comes with different shock cords (bungies) for different weight characteristics. The cord itself is quickly adsjustable through a cleat mechanism located at the small of your back.

Yes, the camera does find a balance point and it does stay there. You could scratch yourself, have a smoke or even a cold beer, without disconnecting. One of the people that wrote a testimonial uses the pak on rollerblades.

The more tension the steadier the move. You get movement but it's fluid and not jerky. Order the demo CD.

There are a fair chunk of closet Marzpak users here and I'm sure they'll chime in when they see the thread.

Mono-pod....
 

I've rigged a mono-pod with legs from a slik table mini pod and have used it for crowd shoots at street festivals and parades. It works well as a sub-stitute for a tripod in a heavy crowd but has inherent weaknesses producing steady cam like motion.
If I can get the licensing set on the music, a 5 minutes documentary will go up on Triggerstreet.com where the mono-pod was used for the shoot.

Listen to Bryan. I'm one of the users of the Marzpak as Bryan was referring to, and I can tell you that I'm a satisfied user as well. As I have mentioned in an earlier thread, it might look strange but it works. If you take a closer look next time you see sports on TV, don't be surprised if you find several camera crews wearing this kind of gear. They have become pretty regularly used by videographers, at least here in Europe.

Thanks everyone for your responses. I think that I will give the Marzpak a try!

Randall

Your requirements effectively narrows down the available solutions out there. You can rule out any sort of steadycam/glidecam or any other derivatives of these. Unless you spend $$$ on the REAL units with vest and arm support these will kill your arm and your back and is only good for short specific shots. I've used the MarzPak with a VX1000 and i can tell you how it meets each of the below reqs.

1. Support the camera to keep minimal stress on my back/arms.

The MarzPak is a great tripod replacement. Camera weight is distributed throughout your torso and you hardly feel the 4lbs in front of you.

2. Provide steady shots, at a minimum when the camera is held still. At least as good as shoulder mounted cameras used in ENG work.

When standing still, it can provide "almost" tripod quality stills, when walking around, you have apply downward pressure on the camera to cancel out any movement from your torso, if you don't do so, the camera will move around. But this is not difficult nor streneous to do.

3. Allow a fairly full range of movement for high, low, over a table, dutch angles, etc.

The MarzPak, if you look at the pics towers almsot a foot over your head. When I first used it, The pole above me kept bumping into walls when I pass through doors. I also found it difficult to sit down but you can probably adjust the vest to allow that. But you CAN point the camera in which ever direction you want and just apply downwards pressure and the camera will be still in that angle.


4. Ability to mount/dismount quickly. Often I will need to move the camera between a tripod and the support system quickly.

A hook attaches to the handle bar which can be unhooked quickly. Your quick release plate can be attached to the cam while on the marzPack.

I don't work for MarzPak but since ppl here have brought it up I thought I'd give my take on it.

Just to add. the tension as well as the mast height are easily adjustable . Both can be don on the fly.

My dad just got the heavy duty Marzpak. It looks pretty funky, but it looks very well made too, kind of like a backpack without the pack. Dad said the people were very nice and it was shipped right away.

A question to Bryan: Could you use it while crawling on your hands and knees through brush? or maybe squatting down low?

I ride a unicycle and wanted to try it there too but I don't think pops will let me use one of his cameras.

JH

How about some sample clips from Marzpack users?

"A question to Bryan: Could you use it while crawling on your hands and knees through brush? or maybe squatting down low?"
Crawling, definetly not. Squatting would be bad for balance with any aid. On one knee would be ok.

Well, I got to use my new Marzpak yesterday on a shoot. I did a walk and talk interview and lots of indoor and outdoor shots with a DVX-100 camera. It worked very well, and my back felt a lot better than previous shoots.

The rig is easy to adjust to fit the way that you want. The shoulder straps initially are set about a quarter of the way from the top of the frame. I moved mine up a bit after trying to move them all the way to the top. With the straps at the very top, I could not reach the cleat at the bottom of the frame, so I moved the straps back down to top of the middle section of the frame.

I kept the waist strap pretty tight so that the rig does not pivot when the camera is attached to the cord. I bought a 5 lbs weight, but did not use it since it takes too long to attach and detach to the camera. I am looking at making a quick release plate weight, but I am not sure that I really need it.

The rig comes with two extension tubes (a short and long) that determine how far in front of you the cord hangs down. With the longest one the camera is in a good position to use the viewfinder. However, to use the LCD, I have to push the camera farther away (my old eyes don't focus well close up). This is not a major problem, but it would be nice if there were longer extension tubes available.

I was able to keep steady shots both at short and long focal lengths with no problem. Moving slowly during the walk and talk also looked pretty good and stable. Trying to walk faster or emulate a dolly shot is not as effective or easy as a steadycam. It is about equilivant to a shoulder mount camera which was the level of stability I was looking for. Overall, I am pretty happy with the rig and I want to thank everyone for their suggestions and for pointing me to the MarzPak.

I will try to post some footage sometime next week. I have another shoot this weekend which will keep me busy.

Thanks,

Randall

Randall

Did your wife call you a knob and threaten to leave you if you were seen with your Marzpak on?

Actually most people think it's cool and can see it's purpose right away. My daughter on the other hand laughs hysterically.

I told her that my doctor had perscribed it! No, she thought that it looked professional. She is my boom operator, so I let her use one of the velcro straps to hold her cabled, so she was happy.

Thanks,

Randall

"I told her that my doctor had perscribed it!"

That is the very best excuse I have ever heard, may i borrow it? I don't suppose it would work with my new flash recorder or mixer, just things that look orthopaedic.

That velcro wrap that Christy uses on the marzpak can be purchased from Home Depot. It cost me $9 canadian for a 9' x 3/4" roll, it's called velcro one wrap

Sure, feel free. I haven't registered it as a trademark! :-)

Thanks again!

Randall

Reply to Papert
 

CHARLIE SAYS:
"Well, to me a camera that can only be held in the hands with no provision for shoulder relief will cause eventual stress on the arms and upper back (between the shoulder blades etc.). It's a very unnatural position, to hold a camera steady with all the weight leveraged in the front. I think of it as the DV curse--this 4 lb cameras that are more uncomfortable after a few minutes than a 22 lb Betacam, which nestles nicely on the shoulder. "

___________________________________________________
Above is so true, the fact is, my sony VX2000 is a stepping stone to a full size camera for me. I am so sick of the burning pains and locked shoulders that ache for days, the thought of a shoulder rested 20 pounder is so sweet and music to my joints and muscles.

Gee, that Papert guy sure can go on and on...!

The other night I watched "Rosemary's Baby" for the first time in my adult life (and was blown away by Polanski's blocking and editing choices--everyone should check this out if they haven't seen it in a while!). In the 'behind the scenes" doc on the DVD, there are some shots of Roman operating a handheld camera with a setup he apparently helped devise, which appeared to consist simply of a couple of planks across the shoulders, with the camera mounted to the front and counterweight lashed to the back.

The Arri 2c's that were used in the day, especially with the French New Wave, were very similar to the handheld DV cameras we use now; stubby little affairs that are held in front of the torso with both hands. Roman's rig sent the weight backwards, centered on the shoulders. This is quite similar to some of the aftermarket rigs available.

The stunning thing to me is that since the XL1, camera manufacturers are more than aware that they are making products for the indie film market (hello? Panasonic? JVC?) but have not yet bothered to make their own handheld setups available. This, 35 years after "Rosemary's Baby". Stunning.

Rosemary's baby.....
 

will take a DVD relook. Charles is right about the shoulder and cam weight distribution situation. Perhaps, too much emphasis by manufacturers has been place on the hand-held idea.