What I do frequently is combine two clips, group them as a virtual clip, then apply color correction, motion, transitions, etc to the virtual clip. I do this because the two clips are directly related (in fact, one is derived from the other) and need to become one again. I don't want to have to duplicate and maintain the adjustments and I want the transitions to work right. In Vegas I could copy the clips but that would accomplish nothing. The primary thing I'm trying to avoid is filter settings in two places that must be identical.

Yes, the substitute for virtual clips is to create a composition on another timeline and render it to a file. The disadvantages are that you have the additional render step and the additional storage plus the lack of instant results if you have to edit it later. If you need to several small things in sequence then it gets more cumbersome. Still, its better than using a frame server like others have suggested.

Virtual clips exist because you may want to do this type of thing and you don't want to have to use multiple projects to get it. The tabbed timeline will make this process much more intuitive.

I've used garbage mattes for extracting moving mattes. Sure you could replace the garbage matte with with a static mask and you could even use a tool to generate the mask, but I don't think that's easier. I could use that technique in Premiere, too. If it's so good why have garbage mattes?

I just recently got a Mini Cooper, and Mini changes your oil for you for 3 years/36k miles. And they use...... Castrol Synthetic. Seems to work great on my Mini, without a single dropped frame and great color correction.

Um... back to DV.

Motor oil is much more fun. My BMW uses Castrol Synthetic 10W-60 and it drinks it. No need to change it. It'll be gone shortly!

<<<-- Originally posted by Scott Silverman : Does anyone here use Avid Xpress DV? I am starting to think that naybe I really should upgrade to Premiere Pro simply because no one seems to use Avid! Please, if you use Avid, could you tell me how you like it or what you think its strengths/weaknesses are? Thanks. -->>>

I too would like to know that info. I currently have Premiere 6.0 and I'm happy with it, but have an opportunity to upgrade. There has been a lot of 'discussion' between Premiere and Vegas, but I'm beginning to believe no one uses AVID either!

Maybe we should intimate that AVID stinks and that my Pinnacle 7.0 is much more versatile before someone will answer! After all, Pinnacle has SmartSound and two (count'em) audio tracks.

Oh, and I buy my motor oil at the dollar store. Only the best for my '96 Isuzu. :)

I have avid.
I think most users here are not using avid, not because it stinks, but rather, its expensive.

The thing I like about avid is real time previewing. But of course, Vegas has that too.

But the real stuff is its color correction. But then again, Adobe is coming up with similar color correction tool.

Michael, do you use the 3Prong color tools? I tried to talk them into an AE version but they weren't biting.

I covet the full-time vectorscope/waveform monitor that Avid and VV both have. Thankfully Premiere will recieve that shortly.

I changed from Premiere 6 to Avid Xpress DV 3.5 and I never looked back.
The learning curve was pretty steep but I liked pretty much everything better.

One thing annoys me tough; you can't export to a QT reference file in Avid XPD and then import it with sound in After Effects (on the PC, om Mac this works with a plug-in).

This fall is very, very interesting;
Premiere Pro, Avid Xpress Pro, Final Cut Pro 4 looks so good I'm contemplating buying a used Mac just for my editing.
All I know is, I'm gonna be poor this fall :)

<<<-- Originally posted by Michael Chen : I have avid.
I think most users here are not using avid, not because it stinks, but rather, its expensive. -->>>

But Avid is the same price as Final Cut Pro, and plenty of people use that. Why is this?

So, price aside, would Avid and Premiere Pro be about equal? They both have color correction and real-time previews. Plus there isn't really much of a learning curve for me in Premiere because I already use Premiere 6.

Thanks!

I guess it would all depend on where you want to go. Avid is one of the 3 NLEs I see listed in Edit jobs consistantly, along with FCP and Media 100. Notice that Premiere and Vegas aren't there? However, I do occasionally see Premiere experience wanted, but have yet to see Vegas in a Proffessional setting.

Ok, I understand all that. But as far as features and options go as purely a NLE and its integration with other software, would you say they are about the same? For example can I do everything in Premiere Pro that I can in Avid and vice versa? Also does Avid work closely with a still image or After Effects type program? (Such as Photoshop, Premiere, and After Effects do) Thanks for your help!

<<<-- Originally posted by Craig Jones : Michael, do you use the 3Prong color tools? I tried to talk them into an AE version but they weren't biting.

I covet the full-time vectorscope/waveform monitor that Avid and VV both have. Thankfully Premiere will recieve that shortly. -->>>


I don't use the 3Prong color tools. Just the basic colour correction tools in avid which allows u to adjust 3 levels of colour correction. Its pretty advanced as it is similar to the CC in avid symphony from what i read.

"For example can I do everything in Premiere Pro that I can in Avid and vice versa?"

I guess that will be a question only time will tell. I haven't used Avid yet, and the new Premiere hasn't hit the shelves yet. I have thought about downloading the Avid trial, but don't know how that would compare to the Pro versions.

Where can I download the Avid trial? I have looked on the Avid site and see no trial! Thanks!

Note, I've pruned this thread a bit by removing some one-line meta-discussions and as few minor ambers of almost-borderline nastiness. Thanks to all for keeping this civil... in the long run, these are all tools, each with their good points and bad. What's right for you may not be right for others and often there can be no clear cut case of one being better than the other, because it's such a personal, individual decision. Thanks again for a very fair and cordial discussion which in any other forum outside of DV Info would have devolved into a flame war. As it is, with only minor culling of a few bits of off taste, we're back on track here. Hope this helps,

I use Avid Xpress DV. it's a really strong and robust NLE. It's stable and it has strong media management abilities, and the best playback and realtime rendering in the field right now.

It has some solid transitions and titling tools, but it doesn't have any fancy compositiing tools, you'll have to use a 3rd party program for that (such as AE). It excells at long form cutting as it also has the best media management. You dont have to worry about virtual clips because all of that is handled internally. You can have multiple instances of any given asset and make changes to it that are seperate from the parent.

You can also easily migrate your product up and down the Avid family of products if your production needs higher end assistant.

Okay, as an AVID user, I will weigh in.

First of all, most AVID users seeem to hang out on the avid forum. www.avid.com if you want to talk to a lot of folks.

Second, most NLE's will allow you to do what you want... after a fashion. Some directly, some indirectly. It's a matter of understanding the interface and it's limitations.

Third, price point. AVID costs the same as FCP right now. It's poised for the release of AVID PRO coming out... in August I think. It will include some options that were previously only on the high end systems, and will interface with the MOJO Digital Nonlinnear Accelerator (if you want to pony up the extra bucks) for an awesome realtime machine capabale of editing uncompressed sdi.

AVID comes with a "third party" effects program... BORIS that fully integrates with the system.

Search the form for the phrase "learning curve" and you will find someone, somewhere complaining that "X" nle has a steep learning curve for THEM.

AVID ships a MAC and PC copy with every purchase, so at the moment... it is the most "portable" nle when it come to cross platform capability.

And finally, the most compelling reason to go with AVID... the reason I chose it to begin with... it is still the MOST USED interface in the industry, and still the best one for cutting film. IF you intend to actually cut film, or work within the industry, or transfer offline edits to higher end systems, AVID is the best choice for you.

IF you think you will NEVER need a frame accurate EDL for negative matchback, Doubt that you will ever have to work on or with a Symphony System, and are more comfortable with a different interface you have already mastered... Then it's probably not your best choice.

Regards

John & Richard,
Thanks for your replys. That has helped me a lot. I do have one other question though. How does Avid work with multiple-camera shoots? I know with Premiere there is a plugin called "Multi-cam". Is there any such thing with Avid that you know of? Or, even better yet, does Avid have something already in it that can be used for multi-camera projects? Thanks so much for your help!