XL1s Jaggy Artifact Problem...
 

Anyone who can help me... I thank you immensely!
Anyone who tries to help me... I also thank you immensely!
Anyone who ignores this post... I hate you! Kidding :)
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Here's the deal.
I'm shooting a heavy duty, special effects intensive film. Here's what I have.

>Canon XL1s, 16xII standard lense
>Digicomp Green paint on canvas (our green screen)
>Production Lights (650's, 1k's, etc.)
>Movie is shot in FRAME mode/MOVIE mode
>Monster Cable DV firewire
>PC with Nvidia Video Card with firewire ports (4 of them)
>Sony MiniDV Tape Excellence Series
>Capturing with Premiere 6.1 for PC

Here's the problem.
When shooting the film it looks great. My viewfinder and my monitor show the image quality to be sharp and beautiful. When I send the video to my computer it's a much different story. For starters there are a lot of jaggy/pixelated/artifacts all over the place. On occasion, chunks of pixels, LARGE pixels. Keep in mind however, there are no dropped frames.
Secondly the sharpness isn't really quite there. Now I know that on a computer monitor with high resolution that you see more pixels, and when shown on a tv you don't really see them... BUT, when compositing, these pixels can be a real pain.
Please help me out here. Should I be capturing with another video card, another software package? Is my camera possibly damaged? The camera dropped once, although it didn't seem to noticeably do anything to it. I mean, is it normal to have this much pixelation?!

ANY HELP would really... well... Help!
Thanks a lot!

> Delorian

To check whether it is your camera just play the footage back
on a normal TV. Do you see the same problems? If not, it is not
your camera or the footage. A couple of thoughts that crossed
my mind about this:

- Maybe your firewire cable has a break in it or is otherwise
(internally?) "damaged"?
- What Operating System are you using? Which DV codec?
It might be that your DV codec is messing things up.
- Does this artifacting only happen in Premiere or also when
playing your footage with the Windows built-in mediaplayer?
- What program did you use to capture your footage?

problem
 

Did you consider that you may be shooting in LP mode???


LP mode adds more shooting time to your tape but compresses the quality
of the image, which makes a "pixelated like" image. Almost like a ".gif"
looks like on the web.

This will determine in your view finder. on the top of the viewfinder it will
display either LP or SP..SP mode is what you want..

I once shot a whole coporate video in LP mode and didnt know it...

But it the long run it didnt really show thus i didnt use much video
footage in the final oucome. Plus i dont really think they could tell! heheh

Adam, I'm sorry but that's not correct. The LP speed mode has no effect on the quality of the image in the DV format. Unlike analog formats where LP speed mode caused a serious hit in image quality, in digital video formats such as DV there is *no* difference in image quality in LP recording. None. It's all 1's and 0's anyway.

The primary disadvantage of recording in LP mode on DV cameras is that usually those tapes will only play back properly in the cameras that shot them, due to the very tight tolerances of the tape speed in LP. Also, if you're using cheap tape, you're more likely to have tape glitches and drop-outs in LP mode. But again, LP mode does *not* affect image quality in DV.

For Delorian, it's really important to view your video on a proper video monitor (even a cheap consumer-grade TV; I use an $80 Orion 13" sometimes) rather than a computer display monitor. There's a huge difference. Hope this helps,

Thanks...
 

Thanks for helping out!

To answer some of these issues, I am indeed recording in SP. And I capture in Premiere unfortunately.
I use the Microsoft DV codec... I was not aware that there was other codecs! If there is please tell me what they are and where I can get them. Please remember, a codec for capturing, not for rendering... as I haven't rendered these yet. I'm getting these jaggy's with capturing. No frame drops however.

Thanks for your help and any future help here!

> Delorian

Quick note...
 

I am also using Windows 2000 and a resolution of 1280 x 1024

There are a variety of codecs out there... one of the best available is the Canopus DV Codec, used by Avid and other professional NLE systems; usually it requires Canopus editing hardware but you can obtain the Canopus DV Booster Pack at http://www.justedit.com/products/dvbp.php3 which includes the codec.

Also keep in mind that DV is 720x480; if you're looking at a DV image full-screen on your monitor at 1280 by 1024 then of course it won't look good. Again, port your DV out to an external NTSC video monitor or even a cheap TV to see what it *really* looks like... the computer monitor ain't going to show you. Hope this helps,

One of the acknowledged best codecs on the market is available from MainConcept.... www.mainconcept.com

The microsoft codec shows gradual deterioration with multi-generational copying. The MC codec does not.

You can download the codec (v2.04) for free and try it out, it has a small watermark in the corner. I think it's $50 to buy and well worth it. I use it exclusively. You'll need a program called DVCSWITCH to force Premier to use this codec. It's available at www.softdeko.8m.com

Good luck.

Editing troubles
 

I hate to be the bearer if bad news here, but this is exactly why I joined the forum today. I need to find out how to get the Cannon XL1 stuff into and then out of Premiere ver. #6.02.

After I planned this shoot, worked everybody to death and came home with this beautiful footage. I expected the same results I had when I took my other projects to Broadcast television, but instead, I was redirecting this into a MM Flash/Director 8 project that my staff is working here.

Jagged, bad compression, bad sync. Finally, I called Adobe.

Well! After a long wait I was very disappointed to find out that...

... the Cannon XL-1 is using a format not supported by Adobe and some other editing software...

I was blown away...

I was redirected to www.scnalyzer.com but I haven’t been able to make the conversion product work yet.

This could be the start of your solution.

Does Anybody have any experience in this arena...

I would be as grateful as Mr. DeliriumHaze up there... :)

I also use Scenalyzer Live. It's an excellent product. In the preferences window, the first tab, there is a radio button that will let you select Type 1 or Type 2 .AVI file format. Video for windows(vfw) will NOT be able to read Type 1. Make sure you are capturing with Type 2.

Type 2
 

Big, Green, Army.....

TANKS......

I check it out...

FUrther on the adobe Premiere Problems...
 

I have been trying to get a copy of Premiere for use at my school(its entirely PC but that is beside the point).

What is the problem with the software?

Is there another reputable program that will run succsessfully on a PC?

Dennis

Premier
 

No problem with Adobe, I have edited on everything, including a $90K Avid 9000 and, for the price, I can't beat the Premier product

The Cannon camera has some short comings with its file format that (a whole year later) I am just coming to be aware of.

Uh-oh
 

INteresting...

JayPoucher,

Do you know if the same problem applies to the GL1?

(Thanks for the software advice)

Dennis

I'm not sure what Adobe's problems are, I've been around Premier since version 4 and it's been nothing but balky for me. I think Premier get embedded in the NLE marketplace early on by bundling Premier with every hardware solution for capturing that came down the road. They established themselves so well that now most of the third party plugins are written exclusively for Premier. Perhaps this software will work properly when bundled with high end hardware PCI capture cards, but, it has NEVER worked well for me. You'd think that with the reputation of Photoshop, Adobe could produce the same quality product in Premier. Premier uses the old windoze vfw interface, and therefore can't read the newer Type 1 avi's. To make maters worse, they make it difficult to use a different DV codec than M$'s. I've recently searched the market for a dependable, professional quality NLE. Canopus and Avid were two potential candidates, but, both have a particular drawback....just visit the forums for this software to see what's up. I finally settled on Sonic Foundry's Vegas Video 3. I'm VERY happy with this NLE that bundles a compositing program in with the NLE. It's stable, it recognizes multi-processor machines and writes out to a high quality MPEG2 codec (mainconcept) as well as their own DV codec that produces stunning images. The best of this codec is that video produced by VV3 will play on the Mainconcept or MS DV codec if there aren't any others installed. On top of that, it's half the price of Premier.
Hope I've provided some useful info.

LP mode and codecs
 

Chris..

Wow, I am surprised to hear that.

When i shot LP mode and reviewed the footage it noticably had a difference
in image quality. I even did a test after I made the supposed "mistake"
of shooting in LP mode, and sure enough i found a loss in quality.

I now am wondering why this is, I did capture though a canopus board
with canopus DV codec rather than my usuall firewire capture,
maybe that had something to do with it, maybe some settings or something.

I am also wondering about the canopus booster package you talked about, I did enjoy working with canopus hardware in the past, plus I agree it is a great codec! where about to i optain a copy of this, Im not sure if I found it on the link you supplied. i would like to have the ability to use canopus codec.

Adam...

My bad, here's the correct link: http://www.justedit.com/products/dvbp.php3

LP mode *should* appear no different than SP, except for the noted various playback incompatibilities... it's one of the advantages of DV.

Weird... I use Adobe Premiere 6.01 with my Xl1S without
any problems at all! Capturing goes fine etc. I do use the
Microsoft DV codec at the moment. Going to try other codecs
in the time to come.

Is there a newer 6.02 version? If so I'll try that one too.

Good luck!

6.02
 

I only have problems exporting the time line to an MPG. it doesn't look good, and had compression troubles. Adobe said the XL-1 wasn't compatable directly with Premier but that what THEY say. I love it and, except for this one glitch, has been great. I have sanother station with a Pinnacle DV-500 that does NOT like my Dell 220 workstation. Something about the dual CPU and that card in a Dell that doesn't play well with others.

Otherwise, itworks great in a beefed up Gateway 800 that I have.

So, I'm happy.

I know this thread is most likely dead, but I had a similar problem with a DV200 capture card. I have done video with a JVC Cybercam and have gotten the same problem.

Best,
James

I've been using Premiere since 1999 and apart from being a little unstable(more a platform problem) I have never had any serious problems with it.

I think your problem could be in your capture hardware/codec and not Premiere. I always capture with it and have never had anything other than clean footage.

As for it not supporting the XL1, I think someone has some wires crossed there. Everytime I plug my camera in it says Canon XL1, device control works, all capture functions work and again I get good clean video.

With any PC, you really have to be careful about what hardware you use. Not everything is compatable and it can cause all kinds of problems from what you are experiencing to total machine failure.

The bottom line is talk to someone who builds NLE systems and make sure all your gear is compatable.

fixed?
 

Hi Delorianhayze,

Can you tell me if you got your problem of the "jaggy artifacts" resolved? Our greenscreen situation is much like yours, with the worst of the pixelation occurring when the talent makes fairly rapid arm movements. Looks good on the monitor during the shoot but then...

Actually I did get my problem resolved. First to make sure it's not a camera issue play the tape back off the camera onto a monitor. If everything is still ok then it could be your capture card.

I was using the Pinnacle DV200 Video Capture card which will actually work ok in Windows XP. The problem is I used the new DV200 drivers with Adobe Premiere 6.02 and 6.01. Both of them seem to cause this effect. I would not consider this to be a Adobe problem but a Pinnacle problem. The capture card access some components of Adobe and these components must have changed structors in the 2 patchs. At least that is my take on my problem yours could be different.

Best regards,
James Rulison