Sell me on Premiere
 

Adobe is offering a huge discount to FCP users who want to switch to Premiere. I'm testing out the trial version, and it looks fairly nice... but I'm not seeing anything "better" than Final Cut, and it still appears to have the worst page turn/curl in NLE history (the SAME one I was using back in 1998!). I'm open to your wisdom! Sell me on Premiere's greatness!

Re: Sell me on Premiere
 

Nope. No way. Not a chance. If you're happy with Final Cut you should stick with it. Just because I like Premiere doesn't mean I'm going to try to sell you on it. Because if you switch and don't like it or, God forbid, lose a project, you're going to blame me, and frankly I have enough problems already. I don't need that.

My mother-in-law is from Mahblehead, so I already have a cranky New Englander in my life. ;-)

Okay, to be serious for a moment, your workflow is a personal thing and you might not find Premiere an improvement. I'm sure the Adobe web pages have plenty of reasons they think you should switch but they are written by salespeople. Only you know, via your time with the trial, whether they are valid. I tried FCP after using Premiere and FCP made no sense to me. Others have the opposite experience. You may find that things you can do quickly and easily in FCP are stupid and ungainly in Premiere. Or you may find them a breeze.

Re: Sell me on Premiere
 

The largest, most important feature to me in premiere is the round trip ability of Pr <-> Ae

If your doing a lot of compositing, its HUGE.

Re: Sell me on Premiere
 

One word: FCPX.

Re: Sell me on Premiere
 

This truely is the problem.
You can stay with FCP 7- for a while, but eventually you'll need to step into the future.
Otherwise, if you need a full featured Pro NLE, your choices are limited.
CS5.5 will certainly do the job- NLE, Motion Graphics, Still Image/Compositing, Audio Editing/Finishing, DVD/BD Authoring- all dynamically linked together in one package.
Whatever you try will be annoyingly different, but you do have some choices & you could certainly do worse than CS5.5

Re: Sell me on Premiere
 

If you are used to working with FCP7 or earlier, then switching to CS5.5 is an easy learning curve.

Match it up with the right computer spec and Cuda graphics card (only 2 Mac choices at this time) and you will love leaving all the FCP 7 render time behind. I decided to switch after NAB preview of FCPX because I could see that for me FCPX would be a long time in getting up to speed as well as the missng "Studio" approach. Could have stayed with FCP7 Studio ... but it would stay at slow 32 bt ... it would no longer be supported - no updates and fixes ... and FCPX was entirely different in all aspects. So if I was being forced to invest in the learning curve - why not learn something more like I was used too ... was already more mature in stable ... was part of a true suite of apps ... and was coming from a company that appeared to be in the hunt for the professional market with some longevity .... worked with my Blackmagic I/O ... could use an external proper monitor for color grading and client review ....

I loved FCP Studio - I would still be there if they had merely gone to 64 bit speed with some improvements and changes ... but stuck with the same paradigm that was (and still is) so great. Many report liking FCPX so it's a personal choice of course. But I know a few houses that had a ton of $'s invested in the FCP workflow that are mad as hell that their investment is trashed for the future if they want to upgrade to 64 bit to be competitive.

Over the years we have used Premiere (back in the 4.0 days), Edius (with their hardware - nothing could touch this combo for speed), and FCP. Last 5 yrs we were mostly FCP ... until June 2011 - now we are back to Premiere and it's suite of apps and have never been happier to gain the speed - it's a learning curve to be sure - but the basics are much the same as FCP7.

The only concern we have is ... what will the Apple Op System do that cripples CS5.5 on the Mac?

Lion already is a No-No

Re: Sell me on Premiere
 

Wow...haven't seen a page curl effect in many years. That brings back the good old days for sure.

But on the topic, I am in the process of switching from FCP to Premiere Pro. Bought the CS5.5 package to take advantage of the huge discount. I spent a few hours on a weekend looking at some online training, then finished my first project with it week before last. The learning curve from FCP is easy. Moving old FCP projects over is easy. The only challenge for me is to learn enough about After Effects to replace Motion. I have two different series I do regularly that Motion opening and closings, so I have to rebuild that template in AE. Then I'll be ready to switch 100%.

The title tool is almost as good as Avid's and saves me a lot of time. The Warp Stabilizer (which is in AE but it's easy) is better than FCP's Smoothcam. I did a hand held walking shot down a row of people at desks, 35mm on a 5DII, and the result after the Warp Stabilizer treatment is so good I'm seriously thinking about selling the Steadicam.

There are some things you have to research and learn...audio, for example, can be tricky. It brings in any 2-channel track as a single stereo track, but you can overcome that by switching the preferences to the way the audio import should be, ie., with 2 separate track. So there are little things like that which may slow you down at first. My first project would have taken me about a day and a half in FCP, it took me about a day longer in PP, due to stopping to search for help. For example, while making my first title was a no-brainer and much faster than going out to Motion as in FCP, I couldn't figure out how to save the title. Took me half an hour of fooling around, then had to go to the help menu to find out that ll I had to do was close the title tool and it automatically saves right to the browser.Some things are so simple they are elusive.

Re: Sell me on Premiere
 

What I like the most are three things:
1. Ability to work natively with virtually any format you can think of, no transcoding.
2. Audio mixer being essentially multitrack editor with track effects, automation using VST plugins
3. Optimization for multi-core. Once you start rendering, you will see 100% on each and every core, including hyperthreading. Even FCPX does not come close.

Plus CUDA acceleration, if you're lucky enough to have proper nVidia card, and multitude other nice things, but these are the three that really make it worthwhile.

Re: Sell me on Premiere
 

Hey Bill...

Definately stick with FCP7...My customers demand some serious page curls, and Premiere isn't up to the task.

But seriously....
I agree with everything the above already mentioned. Another factor to consider is future proofing..This is where i believe FCP decided to change their strategy, and hope that everybody will be using tapeless workflows, drop third party hardware support, and join the collective...
I believe the people at Adobe have gained the momentum, and slightly surpassed, to the point where FCPx won't catch up..

Hopefully, Adobe will get some more FCP users input, and Apple like GUI, and put the nail in the coffin for the CS6.0 release.

Re: Sell me on Premiere
 

Premiere on PC (W7) is just about the buggiest, most nasty, unreliable piece of software I've ever used.

Re: Sell me on Premiere
 

It must have been your system, because I run Premiere on Win7 and it works like a dream. Same goes for many other people I've talked to. I had a few problems with Vista, but so did everybody.

To the OT, I can't really add anything to what everyone else has said, except to say that since FCPX was released, a LOT of tutorials and webinars have popped up on the web dealing with how to make the switch from FCP to Premiere.

Re: Sell me on Premiere
 

Kevin: I can't even open a project that I had open a month ago. Premiere just locks up and the screen goes white. Eventually it will reappear but as soon as I try to do anything the big whiteout occurs again and we go in to 'Premiere is not responding' mode for another five minutes. I'm pretty sure that it's linked to either the QT server or the cineform files in the project, but it's a nasty error and Premiere is not giving out any information to help me solve it.

I also run Vegas 10, which runs flawlessly on the same machine, and handles any source file without complaining. It's easier to use, faster and has better workflow.

Re: Sell me on Premiere
 

Did you also notice the your project file had bloated to a huge size, which would cause the "not responding" or slow it right down? This was a known bug and was fixed with an update. Then again, if everyone loved Premiere there would be no need for Vegas, FCP and the others. :)

Re: Sell me on Premiere
 

the project file is only 7Mb and I'm on version 5.0.3.
I've already upgraded to the latest Cineform Neo and my QT to 7.7 and now I'm going to upgrade to CS5.5 to see if this fixes it. Expensive morning :-)

Re: Sell me on Premiere
 

One word: integration :)

The integration of programs like premiere/encore/photoshop/aftereffects is unrivaled. I specifically like working on a dvd in encore and then open photoshop to make changes to the menu exactly the way I want it and have the menu updated in encore without ever leaving both programs. It certainly speeds up your workflow and gives bigger creative freedom. Btw; for editing I hardly use premiere pro 5 anymore but use edius pro 5 as it's faster then premiere for straight edits, even as 32bit program and without gpu (mpe like) support. But for the creative stuff you can't beat adobe's integration with their programs.

Re: Sell me on Premiere
 

Also have premiere cs5 and the latest cineform neo on my pc and eventhough I don't use it that much anymore to edit it has not crashed on me so far.

Re: Sell me on Premiere
 

Paul, it must be something about your system, we're pretty stable on Win7. I'd say check your memory first. Also you can download 5.5 trial, and see if it will solve the problem, no need to spend money, it's fully functional.

Re: Sell me on Premiere
 

It seems to me, from what I've read about and from Adobe that they are committed to the professional market, much like Avid. I do have to say that I probably would have gone back to Avid had I not had so damn many FCP projects that are still active. I worked on Avid for about 10 years and I think it's still the most intuitive, fastest system available. The reason we switched to FCP was at that time Macs seemed to be getting shoved way into second place by Avid, and we were an all Mac studio. Today, that's not the case, but I think PP handles the FCP files nicely with no need to purchase third party software. I imported one long complicated project last week and there were no problems, other than the FCP color effects were funky. However, they opened up as PP effects, so it was easy to tweak them.

Having said all that, there's no compelling reason to abandon FCP 7 if it's working for you--other than to take advantage of the 1/2 price deal. On the other hand, with my new 8 core Mac Pro, I do have to say that PP is running a lot better than FCP 7. More stable too--not a single crash yet. I have a lot of FCP crashes, and yes, I've trashed the preferences and all that good stuff. Probably wants a total reinstall since I migrated to the new computer, but I'm really reluctant to do that.

Re: Sell me on Premiere
 

if you're on PC, Vegas and Edius are still faster and less resource intensive, also being real time;
I'm not guessing, I have them all installed on the same very decent PC, i7 980, 24Gb, 3x240 gb revo SSDs with internal RAID0, GTX580, actually Vegas is the fastest.

Re: Sell me on Premiere
 

The thing that sold me is the obvious effort that Adobe is putting into actively supporting their customers. Their support resources are awesome. It is very clear that they place great emphasis on this. That means a lot to me. The other NLE publishers are detached and aloof from their customers and the market in general. I don't use any product because I'm "supposed to" or need to be socially accepted because I do. Adobe rules now with their customer support attitude. The other NLE 'hawkers' don't even come close. One of them seems to be showing outright contempt to their customers base and doesn't seem to mind blatantly deceiving them. They apparently think their customers' religious fervor will let them get by with that 'stuff.'

Re: Sell me on Premiere
 

It sounds like you need to fix or replace your computer. I and a number of my associates use Premiere Pro on a PC running win 7 and it's as solid as a rock. It's time for you to take hard look at your computer.

Re: Sell me on Premiere
 

If you have purchased a Matrox MXO2 for use with FCP, you can still use the same hardware for PremierePro. Just apply the PPro version of the drivers and you're up and running.

Actually, you can also do this with Avid. But I like PPro. :-)

Andrew

Re: Sell me on Premiere
 

Because folks on the Premiere Pro team frequent the forums and answer questions for you! ;-)

Re: Sell me on Premiere
 

I second that.
Having used Premiere on and off for 15 years on Mac & PC, I have never experienced such stability.
And the CUDA is the Kuta(real thing).
To be able to play Quicktime uncompressed HD (from a Hyperdeck Shuttle) and mix 2 streams in an effect, without rendering, then output(render) very fast, still in uncompressed QT, on a computer that cost $2000 and not $8000+.
There have been a few false starts(XP 64, Vista 64, Pr CS4).
I was sceptical at first but, now there is true 64 bit worklow.
It's been a long time coming but it's the holy grail for me.

Re: Sell me on Premiere
 

I'm an FCP user who just bought the CS5.5. Production Premium.

Why?

Well, first, I want to say I still prefer FCP as an editor in comparison with Premiere Pro.
Premiere Pro may have some 64bit goodness, but in a lot of 'basic' things, FCP is quicker and to my opinion better.

But why did I bought it?

1. The deal. Having 50 % off, isn't a chance we will get anytime soon again.

2. I didn't have a Photoshop license already, so this alone already makes the deal a good one.
Especially seeing the content aware fill in action.

3. The 'package'. I didn't really bought it for Premiere Pro, but for the package of After FX, Encore, Media Encoder, Premiere Pro as a component, Photoshop, Audition... It's just a very good package for the money. I wouldn't have bought it at the original price, but at this promotion, I can't say no.
This of course hangs together with the interaction of the programs and the dynamic linking, which is great and FCS can't hold a candle too.

4. Biggest reason... FCPX. Maybe in the future it will be a great program. At this point it's a dud, and it's shameful that Apple calls this professional software. I bought it. Asked for a refund after I ordered Adobe.
I love most of Apple's stuff, I still think their OS beats Windows in so many ways it isn't even funny anymore, but they lost a LOT of credit with the FCP X release.
And as someone already said: One point in the future, we will have to upgrade. If FCP X still is as bad as it is now, then I would kill myself for not taking advantage of the deal now.

So for me, it's not that I'm switching my editor, but that I'm making a good investment.
(considering having a good lot's of licenses, a good package of software that hands you some features that can really help and you don't have access to with FCS, and being able to upgrade later, etc. ...)

Re: Sell me on Premiere
 

A cloaked figure stands near the FCP booth at the markets.

"This is not the editing software you are looking for." [mysterious wave of hand]

;-)

Andrew

Re: Sell me on Premiere
 

"I didn't leave Final Cut Pro.... Final Cut Pro left me!"

-Ben

Re: Sell me on Premiere
 

I can't sell you Premiere if the first thing you do is checking the silly/stupid and amateur transitions :-p
You don't have to use them...

Premiere digests almost any codec natively, opens your old FCP-projects, is superbly competible with AE, Photoshop, Audition and Encore. Especiallly Dynamic-linking between PP and AE is great.
You can even load your FCP-shortcuts, so your Cut is still Blade and V (probably named V because off the shape) is still Arrow.
And you can go 64-bit.

Re: Sell me on Premiere
 

The product sells itself.

Re: Sell me on Premiere
 

"I didn't leave Final Cut Pro.... Final Cut Pro left me!"

-Ben

Good one!!!

Re: Sell me on Premiere
 

Why I left apple.
Steve is still trying to control the user experience instead of provide what people want.

Re: Sell me on Premiere
 

The Reality Distortion Field™ usually works.

(see here)

Andrew

Re: Sell me on Premiere
 

Interesting to see I am not alone.

I didn't mean to imply that I worked for apple, if that's what you thought.
I was a Mac addict in 1996 for a while, spending $8500 on a powermac and $13000 on peripherals like SCSI RAID & Targa card.
The powermac open platform experiment stopped and my system quickly became redundant.
But that's life in the big city.
I went on to study web programming and had to buy a pc because all beginners lessons were in Q-basic so I bought a beat up old pentium 1 for $70.
I gradually got used to both systems but hardware became cheaper and better for PC's.
I am a champion of open source and love PHP, Apache, MySQL.
I love that facebook still uses them.

Apple's strategy has been to control the OS and hardware supposedly in the name of stability and hardware compatibility for the user.
Meanwhile, the PC(Windows OS), and Taiwanese competitive engineering have resulted in cheap, advanced gear for all, even apple users.
Different strokes.
However, it is ironic that Windows has become a far more open OS than apple.
A long way from apple's original philosophy that fostered graphic arts and video software pioneers.
Anyone seen "Pirates of Silicon valley"?
I have a very soft spot for Bob Wosniac.

These days I find apple's marketing strategies offensive.
FCP(some) users will know what I mean.

Having used Premiere on mac & PC over the last 15 years, and having had many issues with it, I have to say the current CS5+ is very stable(on a pc) and has great functionality and performance(on a pc).

Re: Sell me on Premiere
 

And to think that I once spent 11k on a Tektronics Phaser colour printer. I remember thinking at the time ... "I could have bought a second hand car for that". But I digress.

(shudder)

Andrew