More on (poor) encoding
 

OKay folks, just so you know, I have searched and reviewed all relevant threads I could find on this topic. It seems each thread ended up evolving away from my concerns.

I'm working with SD in PP2 (on a PC) and I'm simply looking for the best way to get the highest quality video onto the discs I'll deliver to the client. So far I've been exporting AVI from the timeline and then laying that into Encore and burning a MPEG2. This seems OK, but not great. I enjoy the menu managment and other acspects od Encore so I'd like to keeep using that if possible.

Many have suggetsed a 3rd party encoder like Cineform or Procoder. I've also heard of people using Sorenson Squeeze. I assume in using these products I'd still have to initially eport an AVI from the PP2 timeline (?). PP2 media encoder has a Sorenson codec but it looks so bad I wonder why they included it with Premier.

I'm looking for input on the best workflow to simply get from my timeline to DVD (with menus) with good quality. Any info is appreciated. I apologize for getting abck to a topic that has been covered in many threads here but none of those threads ended up getting me to an answer to my real question: What the best way to get fron the PP2 timeline to DVD?

It sounds like I'll need to buy another encoding program. I'm fine with that, I just want to nkow which is the best for what I'm trying to do.

(BTW: Are exporting movie (AVI) and the adober media encoder (crap) the only way to get media out of Premier?)

Any info is appreciated.

-Don B.


"When the going gets wierd, the wierd turn pro"
- Hunter S. Thompson

Procoder and Cinema Craft Encoder will encode directly from the Premiere Timeline. Sorenson Squeeze is a seperate program, but you can use a frame server, http://www.debugmode.com/frameserver/, which will allow you to export your timeline to a seperate encoder without having to render out of Premiere, and it's free.

I usually use the Adobe Media Encoder to encode my mpeg-2 for Encore. 7500 mbs CBR, Quality 5. I think the results are good. I have Sorenson Squeeze for web export, but I haven't really tested it for mpeg-2. I read in a review that Cinema Craft Encoder has the best output of all the DVD encoders, but it's quite expensive. Maybe I'll do some more testing.

Thanks Kevin. Hey, we're almost neighbors (I'm in Ithaca).

I'll look into the frame server you mentioned.

When you use Adobe Media Ecoder to make your M2s, doesn't Encore end up re-encoding the file?


-Don

Neighbors indeed. I don't know about you, but I'm ready for a nice, warm, 30 degree day.
No, I just drop it in the timeline in Encore.

Your post peaked my interest, so I just ran a few quick tests. I used some progressive footage from a DVX100a. I encoded with Premiere and Sorenson squeeze. Sorenson did produce a better image. Sharper and with better colors. But Sorenson doesn't have an option for 23.976 DVD, only 29.97. Not a huge deal. More tests to follow.
-Kevin

good info kevin thanks

DON / KEVIN

Cinemacraft performs best with encoding speed at a given quality.

TMPGenc as standalone gives excellent results / more affordable / slow.

Herman.

suprisingly dissapointing
 

I've beeen with premiere since 4.0 about 10 years ago. Each new version which has been released since DVD took over has promised "High Quality DVD authoring".

I've wasted so many discs trying different settings (from both here and the Cineform group), but have not yet seen DVD quality that looks professional.

I'm very surprised that for the investment required premiere pro can't do this well.

I guess I'm hesitant to upgrade yet again (ppro2) when it seems like this is still the case.

Herman, which product from TMPGenc are you using? And how do you export your material from adobe before using it?

Have to agree that pp2 should be able to handle an output to DVD at a good .... no very good quality.

The time I have spent on forums/experimenting to output from the pp2 time line to the most ubiquitous format ... dvd!! Then working through 'Virtual Dub' (great piece of software why can't Adobe buy it!! for pp2) then to the incredibly slow TMPG...

Hate to think I purchased the wrong bit of code.

Really Adobe must have waxed ears.

consensus on quality
 

Im curious:
If slow speed is not a factor (I'll let the final project encode overnight if i have to), then what are the best options for getting a great DVD encoded:

I've heard so far:

Virtual Dub
Cinemacraft
Tempgenc (although I'm not sure which product)

are their others?

Let's see if we can form some kind of consensus on:
1. the best quality external software
2. the best way to get footage from premiere into that software
3. the best settings.

Folks, unless you want three extra steps, and two post avi's with unsupported freeware, you're best bet is get on the horn (so to speak) and tell the Adobe engineers that we need better scaling and encoding features. (I'd even pay more if tmpeg and a lacoz3 filter were embedded into the code).

Vote with your dollar's and not just your holler's.

BTW, Here's the link:

http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/...?name=wishform

ok peter..
 

Ok, I did it. it only took about a minute.
Hopefully they'll release the new version later today. :)

Seriously though, I really did make the request (it was really easy), and if all of us do, it might help speed things along.

but, while we wait, I think we have to rely on a third party.

Yup. I was thinking long term. This has been an issue for some time, and unless we make a fuss about fixing core issue, we'll get pointless features like "Automatic background music while you wait for your render."

Posted request to Adobe but was not sure if it was a feature request or bug!!

Personally I feel it is more a bug.

made my request...

When you make a request to Adobe it asks for 'Bug' or 'Request'

Well my guess is that your feedback goes to two different teams, depending on your selection.

So maybe for best results we should mirror any concerns to 'Bug' and 'Request'.

You have to make a big noise (so to speak), so if you submit to both as a bug and feature, you'll increase the odds that it'll get noticed.

BTW, you do have a point, before when it was version 6 or lower, just having mpeg2 encoding was cool for a 'prosumer' application. Now that Adobe has crossed over to the professional side, and now 2nd version, this cheesy mpeg2 encoder isn't winning any accolades. Couple that with an audience now trained to view the tact sharp details of HD/HDV...

What's more is that were resolved to using freeware applications written by some dudes hunkered down in their basements, and the results are truly professional. You see, all those neat, costly tools we put to work in the edit process mean squat if it's ruined by an substandard encoder.

It's a good bet that the folks from Adobe, though instructed not to participate, do browse these forums, and they must see how important this issue really is. I'd spend double the money if I didn't have to frame-serve/vdub/tmpegenc and endure 12-24 extra hours for every one hour of HD I edit. In fact, I'm wonder just how much time and money this issue is costing me and others out there?

This is the kind of thread that makes me think I made a bad decision on premiere. Going to have to get very familiar with these third party encoders here... that or take a look at vegas. I am suprised that new software package like vegas is making people happy, and premiere which has been around since forever is just not getting it's s&@)! together. I assumed Adobe would have worked out the bugs by now, but there's still some major issues... Adobe is a great brand, too bad they're more focused on their imaging than their video...

Ok, time to hunker down and learn about all the plugins I'm gonna need...

Daniel /


TMPGenc vers 4.0 Express / LINK http://www.pegasys-inc.com/

Cinemacraft more expensive but a very powerfull standalone tool.

Some users use frameserver(free) to serve aspect frames straight from the
timeline to V/Dub to do the resise with lancros 3 resize filter before encoding
with TMPG.

Other users skip the frameserve and feed the aspect avi straight to VDUB for
resize and then encode with TMPG.

Some users feed the avi straight into TMPG to do the resize and encoding.


Some resize the Cineform avi straight from the timeline by exporting the
avi file with the field order set to no fields (progressive scan ) Prem Pro 2
before encoding with TMPGenc.

TMPGenc feedback on this forum is excellent / Not very fast but very good
quality / Good value for money.

The abovementioned methods is not to confuse you but resizing to sd / from
PPRO 2 has result into different workarounds from users before encoding.
Each method has obviously one more/less steps involved practiced by users
to safisfy their personal perceived output quality.

Herman.

I am curious too...any takers?

Interesting thread.

Personally, I never let premiere encode. Im working SD DV source material. So I simple export the final movie as DV AVI and omport that into Enore. Let encore do the encoding and my results have always been very good. Reliable, simple, and good quality. (Assuming the program is 1.5 hours or less)

For longer than 1.5 hours I have used Procoder for better results on really high compression.

Curt Wrigley