Jon,

I have a two questions. One weight related and the other about conversion.

Could you let us know the weight of the individual components: the Ki Pro itself with a hard drive inserted, two the exoskeleton and three the Rod accessory kit. If it is too time consuming to get the individual weights on the later two then simply a gross weight figure would be sufficient.

On conversion... Can you do cross conversion on the fly, say bringing in a HD signal and lay it down to SD? Second can you do conversion processing on files once they have been laid down within the box or be able to cross convert via computer software (such as via Final Cut or standalone s/w from AJA) utilizing the processors within the Ki Pro?

I see on the spec sheet in the Ki Pro brochure that it can do hardware cross conversion of HD signals but I am unclear about when the cross conversion can take place and if the cross conversion can go from HD to SD.

I can't wait for this device. Any idea on release date?

Cheaper SSD In Two Weeks
 

Lets hope AJA can manage to keep the KiPro in tune with the current SSD marketplace.

Intel launching cheaper SSDs with up to 320GB capacity in two weeks?

Answers to your latest questions
 

Andreas S. - Yes, using the component output from a Canon XH A1 will be comparable to using the HD-SDI output from the Canon XH G1s. Again, the advantage of using the HD-SDI connection, it that it makes for a single connection for audio and video.

Emmanuel P. - The Ki Pro, when used with the exoskeleton, provides for a small footprint beneath the camera; this means that it does not tend to bias the weight of the camera front or rear as some lenses or rear mounted accessories might. In terms of balance, the exoskeleton even features a sliding plate to adjust the weight distribution of the camera when mounted to the exoskeleton. With regards to the ExpressCard/34 portion of the recorder being removable, this would have added complexity and therefore cost to the design of the unit... but it's certainly a nice idea!

Andrew S. - Ki Pro with the 250GB storage module in place weighs 3.55 lbs, the exoskeleton weighs 2.45 lbs, and the rod endplates weigh 0.7 lbs. As for your conversion questions, you can convert on input and you can convert on output. This means that if you feed an HD signal to the Ki Pro, you can downconvert to an SD recording. Or you can feed Ki Pro a 720p HD signal and record a 1080i HD signal. If you've recorded something already, you can use the device to produce a video output with a conversion. A great way to think about the benefit of the conversions is to use the device to record the format you want to work with in post-production.

Ed D. - We are getting close to release. Thanks for your patience!

Barry A. - One of the best parts of using the 2.5" SATA form factor for the Ki Pro Storage Module is that we will be able to utilize larger capacity SSD drives as they become available.

Hope this is helpful information,
Jon Thorn
Product Manager
AJA Video Systems, Inc.
California

Jon, will the Ki Pro be using the SATA-3 (6Gb/s) port interface which was standardized late 2008 to make use of the new 4th Generation SSD's?

Micron's smaller NAND chips mean more, faster flash memory in the same old enclosures

Hi Jon,

I work in a non-broadcast live event production company, and we are in a great need for a such device as Aja Ki Pro - only one question hangs in my mind - can Ki Pro downconvert in real time? during recording HDSDI signal can it output SD composite/component for montioring on SD monitors?

I don't know if Jon didn't see this or just ignored it, but it was my question too. I'd LOVE to dump my Firestore for long form recording from my EX1. And right now, my options are really down to two units.

1. Convergent NanoFlash
2. AJA Ki Pro

While I realize that AJA has been in bed with Apple for quite a long time, it's really disheartening to learn that there is absolutely zero provision to provide more than one codec. Jpeg2000 or even DNxHD (both free to license) would have opened the door to users on other platforms at very little additional cost.

This choice by AJA to essentially exclude anyone who is not on FCP turned what should have been a lengthy conversation with my employer into a non-starter.

SATA, live downconversion and codec choice
 

Barry A. - Sorry somehow I missed your post regarding SATA 3; I thought I had answered all of the questions you posted originally on drive technology! Since the SATA technology is very new, we are not using this for Ki Pro. But the good news is that SATA 3 technology is backwards compatible with SATA 1 and SATA 2, so this should not be an issue in terms of drive compatibility.

Kaarle K. - Yes, the Ki Pro has the ability to downconvert in realtime via hardware. This means that you could indeed record HD material, but simultaneously downconvert and monitor on your existing SD monitors.

Perrone F. - AJA elected to create an Apple ProRes 422 recorder because there seemed to be a need for such a device considering the large Final Cut Pro user base and their desire to work with a high quality codec like Apple ProRes 422 in post. Keep in mind that while JPEG 2000 and Avid's DNxHD might be "free to license", this does not mean that they are "free to implement"; a great deal of development time is spent implementing software compression schemes in hardware... and the more codecs you implement, the longer your development and testing phases, etc. Yes, the majority of those who will benefit from Ki Pro will be Final Cut Pro users, but since Apple offers QuickTime decoders for Apple ProRes files for both the Mac and the PC, it is still a useful codec for users who are not working specifically with Final Cut Pro or even a Mac.

As always, hope this information is helpful,
Jon Thorn
Product Manager
AJA Video Systems, Inc.
California

Jon,

Thanks for your reply. While I am certain you are privy to better numbers than me, I am curious as to whether your numbers show you there are more FCP users out there or more Avid users. I wonder if the unit recorded to JPEG2000 or DNxHD, instead of ProRes if it would be as popular.

Perhaps it is because I am not a FCP user that units like this, and cameras like the new JVC that shoots to ProRes, tend to irk me. Sometimes I think the popularity of ProRes is out of all proportion to FCPs installed base. It is even more bothersome when you consider that FCE cannot read ProRes, so you lock out the non-pro Apple users too.

Thanks to Apples generosity, PC users with modern Quicktime installations can read ProRes. I suppose we should be grateful for this one-way free ticket, but it rings awfully hollow when there are other codecs that perform just as well and are readable and writable on multiple platforms.

I wish you guys all the best. It seems as though this product will knock it out of the park. I am just sorry that it can't be a legitimate consideration for me at this time.

Do one thing and do it well. For me, I'd be able to transcode it as pro res onto a pc. 10 bit 422 with a great build quality that won't fail in the field. modular harddrives. I am sold. I also like the extra time AJA is putting into the unit. They are taking their time to make it right. Now I hope the thing works :)

I've been editing on Avid since 1991. FCPro since 2004. I don't have the numbers but I can say without equivocation that Final Cut Pro is dominating the post market.

I'm sure AJA and the other manufacturers would be doing their stockholders a disservice to bring to market a product unless the numbers were there in the market research.

Interesting. Do you feel this is true because of all the independents out there, or are you seeing this in post houses and large shops as well? I know my town is an anomoly, but I haven't worked with any shops around here that use FCP. Every place I've had to deal with is an AVID shop. My friend is a producer at the city and they are on AVID. The AP Affiliate that I work with sometimes is Avid, the local TV stations are AVID, the PBS station that I work with on a regular basis is AVID. I'm the odd bird with Vegas, but I just can't afford an AVID system at this point.

I know they use FCP up at FSU in the film school, but I don't work with them directly. Just have a friend in the program.

I know that different markets are, obviously, different. Here in DC EVERYONE used to be AVID.

Now there are only two larger post shops in town on AVID, everyone else is on FCPro.

All of the smaller and independent shops as well as they can buy more seats for less money.

ProRes 4444
 

AJA claims and promotes that they enjoy close collaboration with Apple. Today Apple announced new flavors of its ProRes codec in FCP7. ProRes 4444 samples at 12 bits per pixel and runs at 330 megabits per second at 1080/60 frame rates. ProRes 422 (LT) samples at 10 bits per pixel and runs at 100 megabits per second at 1080/60 frame rates. Since, the AJA-KI is ProRes based, does it/will it support the new ProRes 4444 Codec or the old ProRes 422 lightweight codec?

The ProRes 4444 is about 40 Mb/s, something that is doable on a fast SSD. This will certainly rival HDCAM SR quality, if the ProRes is a more efficient codec than Sony's (probably is because is newer). In any case it will have the added benefit of a very smooth and economical workflow from shooting, through post up to printing, that no other system can boast at this moment. Many aspiring directors and/or cinematographers have failed to understand how expensive a rocky production path can be, especially on projects destined to television or web. Of course you have to have FCS.

I wouldn't even be surprised if people were capturing Red footage on KiPro, kissing goodbye the 4K post nightmare, although I don't think that Red has a 1080p live out.
Certanly we live in interesting times in regard to budget HD acquisition that hopefully will upscale the production values of independent filmmaking.

Which cameras again...?
 

Hi Jon,

thanks for all the detailed answers and patience when answering same or similar questions. You really go the extra mile for your audience and for your product! (I hope your boss will read this.)
When I first have read about KI it appeared to me as a competitor in the camera market. (No need to discuss this, just my gut feeling.)
Basically my understanding was that I could use my existing cameras (or buy a cheaper cam for that matter) yet end up with results similar to higher end (and expensive) cameras if the hardware built in the camera allows better PQ and resolution than its output specification enables.

Then I had to learn that Canon 5D MkII is not an option today due to downscaling its HDMI output. Sigh...
On the other hand I see KI product photos with tiny HD cameras typically designed for family vacation "jobs". Do these tiny cameras produce real HD results with KI?
It has also been mentioned by you that with KI one can produce better quality HD videos if the optics and sensor of the camera supports that.

Then there was a question about cameras and you have listed only 4 nice ones, however this list must be far shorter than the possibilities are.
Take Sony V1P (or V1E for Europe). Or any other 1080 HDV.
Which cameras can be considered producing superior results to their original capabilities when combined with KI? Only SD-HDI outputs and HDMI work? How does component outs work in terms of PQ and resolution compared to these?
It would be great to have a list of suitable cameras on the website with some details on how to connect them and what to expect in terms of HD quality. This might generate thoughts of potential buyers who may rather invest in KI than in a new camera.

thanks and best regards,

Zsolt

Latest questions...
 

Barry A. - The first firmware release for Ki Pro will not include support for the latest Apple ProRes LT and Apple ProRes Proxy codecs, but this support will be added with a firmware update. All firmware updates for Ki Pro will be free of charge. Apple ProRes 4444 will not be supported on Ki Pro since it is a 4:2:2 recorder and does not feature dual link 1.485Gbps or 3Gbps SDI to support 4:4:4 input.

Emmanuel P. - There has been great interest in using Ki Pro to produce high quality recordings that may be superior - in terms of compression - to what is available from the on-board recorders in some cameras. However, for data centric cameras, like the RED One, the on-board recording can be of a very, very high quality and so the Ki Pro recording - which is essentially taking a "video tap" output from a data centric camera - should not be considered a substitute. The best results from a data centric camera - like RED One - are still those produced by the camera's on-board compression. Ki Pro most benefits video cameras with full quality video output that best represents the data the lens and sensor could produce.

Zsolt G. - A wide, wide range of cameras can be used with Ki Pro. This is why you see images of Ki Pro used alongside camcorders like the Canon HV30. That camcorder - though a small consumer/prosumer model - features manual controls that make it a viable choice. We have not produced a "list of cameras to use with Ki Pro", in part, because if we left any camera off the list that was a viable choice, we'd be doing the model and manufacturer of said camera a potential disservice if people formed the impression that they could not use it with Ki Pro. The best answer to give on the "which camera" question can be simply stated as this: select the camera with the best sensor, the best lens and the best video output possible to pair with Ki Pro to produce the best possible result.

Hope, as always, that this information is helpful,
Jon Thorn
Product Manager
AJA Video Systems, Inc.

John Thorn - I am aware that Red own compression will give superior results. I was just thinking a way to bypass the Red workflow which is cumbersome, especially for no feature film projects. With ProRes4444 the quality hit would have been minimal, if any, the post production benefits enormous.

BTW is a dual link version of KiPro in the making? I still believe that it will be awesome for indie filmmakers.

Jon, would you like to comment on any updated release information? Any clue when we might be able to see these in the wild?

Emmanuel P. - Regarding your question about a dual link version of Ki Pro... We certainly won't rule out the possibility. Ki Pro was designed as a 4:2:2 recorder therefore it will not be able to record 4:4:4.

Aaron N. - While Ki Pro is not yet available, it should be available soon.

Thanks,
Jon Thorn
Product Manager
AJA Video Systems, Inc.
California

ProRes in Windows is only 8 bits
 

[QUOTE= but since Apple offers QuickTime decoders for Apple ProRes files for both the Mac and the PC, it is still a useful codec for users who are not working specifically with Final Cut Pro or even a Mac.

Jon Thorn
Product Manager
AJA Video Systems, Inc.
California[/QUOTE]

Hello. The ProRes Quicktime decoder for Windows is only 8 bits, 10 bit is truncated. This makes impossible high-quality work in Windows with ProRes.

Apple ProRes 422 QuickTimes in Windows are 10-bit
 

Manuel L. - I checked with Apple directly and they informed me that Apple ProRes 422 files are indeed 10-bit on Windows using the decoder.

What you might be thinking of is the shortcoming of some applications to interpret QuickTime files on Windows at 10-bit. For a Windows app to get 10 bit sample values out of ProRes, the app itself needs to correctly interpret 10-bit QuickTime files, otherwise the decoder will only deliver 8-bit.

Hope this clarifies things,
Jon Thorn
Product Manager
AJA Video Systems, Inc.
California

Mr. Thorn thanks for your reply.
But, which app correctly interpret 10-bit QuickTime files on windows?
I have Adobe CS4 on Vista64, and for Adobe app ProRes is only 8 bit. By the way, quicktime files on Blackmagic Uncompressed 10 bit codec is correctly interpreted.

Hi John

Would I be able to import this recorders h264 files into windows version of after effects 7? Or Vegas 9

TIA

Mark

Apple's newly released "White Paper" helps to shed some much need light on the ProRes technology in Final Cut Studio 3.0.

http://images.apple.com/finalcutstud..._July_2009.pdf

What is still a mystery is precisely what version of ProRes the AJA KiPro supports at this stage of deployment? The AJA web site is short on details as what versions are actually supported. So following Jon's response (above) we know that the KiPro will not support three of the five members of Apple's "ProRes Family." Future firmware will add "LT" and "Proxy" support. What remains to be answered is -- does the KiPro support Apple's July 2009 White Paper ProRes codecs termed ProRes 422(HQ) and ProRes 422?

It would be extremely helpful if AJA could provide some 3-dimensional thinking/graph in it's marketing response/information - at the very least on it's web page. Thanks in advance.

Manuel L. - Since Apple ProRes 422 QuickTime files are 10-bit in Windows via the Apple ProRes QuickTime Decoder, perhaps the issue is simply a setting in Premiere Pro. After speaking with some of the AJA staff that are more familiar with Premiere Pro, they suggested you look at how the Sequence Settings>Video Previews>Codec is set.

Mark David W. - The Ki Pro does not record H.264 files, but Apple ProRes 422 and Apple ProRes 422 (HQ) QuickTime files. With the Apple ProRes QuickTime Decoder for Windows installed, you should be able to import the QuickTime files that Ki Pro creates into Adobe After Effects 7 or Sony Vegas 9.

Barry A. - The Ki Pro will initially support Apple ProRes 422 and Apple ProRes 422 (HQ) as defined in the Apple whitepaper that you referred to in your post.

Regards,
Jon Thorn
Product Manager
AJA Video Systems, Inc.
California

No, in After Effects CS4 (in Vista64 system and quicktime 7.6) quicktime files with blackmagic Uncompressed 10 bit codec is correctly interpreted (10 bits), but quicktime ProRes 10 bit files are truncate to 8 bits. For After Effects ProRes is only 8 bits. And it is very important for color grading and VFX.

Manuel,

Why do you think that the ProRes is being truncated?

Can you describe your workflow in more detail?

Thanks,

When I import Quicktime ProRes 10 bit files in After Effects CS4 (in Vista 64) and I apply a level efect, the histogram is not continue, it is truncated. This not happen with another quicktime 10 bit codec. See attached.

Just received an email from AJA. The Ki Pro is now shipping.

That's great news at last, I hope they shipping overseas orders simultaneously this may just save me. I checked the AJA web site and found that they have also posted the Ki Pro manual and quick start documentation for download.

We got the word yesterday afternoon. Lots of backorders at AJA, so I don't know when we'll actually get our first shipments.

As you would expect, we've put together some mighty aggressive bundles with KiPro and the new FCS3 to get things launched. Videoguys.com KiPro Bundles

Gary

B&h
 

Wonder why B&H has pushed back their arrival time to October? I really want one of these, now!

Like I said, lots of backorders placed by dealers with AJA. We put our order in right after NAB, as I'm sure B&H did. It's going to be tight availability for a while.

Right now we have more units on order with Aja then backorders to customers. So if you place your order with us, you should get from our first shipment. Unfortunately as of today, I can't give you a firm date when that will be.

Gary

Hey Gary, do you guys have the Ki Pro available for rental?