Portable compact audio preamps
 

I'm looking at battery-powered audio stereo preamps with phantom power to fit on a Canon HV20 camera, overall still cheaper and smaller than the Canon XH-A1 camera. After search I came across:

Beachtek DXA-6HD
Sound Devices mixpre
CEVL IM2
Grace Design Lunatec V3

I'm not going to ask which is best :-) but rather is there another obvious one I haven't seen? Like some Japanese- or German-made (after all they make good mikes and lenses)? Any other?

Thanks,

Alex

Beachtek DXA-6vu is the one you want for the HV-20. This one is not a preamp, just +48 phantom with level meters and some trim. It's a smaller profile because the HV-20 is a shorter cam.

MixPre is a good pre, but no way to mount it, you would need a sound operater, or carry it over your shoulder. I hooked up to the HV-20 once, and it mic level only going in. Mix Pre only has line level out.

Never heard of Cevl

Grave V3 is good, but not for your application, and I don't think it's battery operated.

The Apogee Mini-MP comes highly recommended, though it's probably overkill for you. Like the MixPre, no way to mount it on the cam.

For mounting, I was thinking of drilling a small whole in the device's upper plate and attach a quick release adapter and plate (used to attach cameras to tripod heads, like this http://tinyurl.com/33j782). It may be overkill or it may simply work.

Thanks for this pointer to Apogee Mini-MP, looks interesting. I can't find its dimensions, are they public somewhere? Would you compare it larger/wider than the mixpre for example, or to another?

Its dimensions don't seem to be available online. I only saw it briefly, but it was definitely larger than the MixPre. I remember it being approximately the MixPre's width and very long, maybe twice as long.

While there is no place for batteries on the Grace V3, many people use it in the field, you simply have to find a power source that you find acceptable (from a weight perspective).

Another option is the Wendt X2 mixer. It's actually about the same size as the V3 and MiniMe, and uses the same pre-amps that are in the larger Wendt X4/X5 mixer. I use to own the X2 and liked it quite a bit. The only downside is the LEDs on the unit. Even in the dimmest position, the LEDs seemed overly bright to me.

I don't know how you would mount any of these on a camera, but I suppose it could be done as somebody pointed out by drilling holes in the case and using the proper mounting hardware.

However, there are two things that strike me about most of these options. First, most are as much, if not more, than the camera you're using. Second, most of the cameras that require you to use 3.5 mm input connectors really don't provide much in the way of sound. What I mean by that is that even with the beachtek, and other devices providing the A/D, they are still very noisy and I still recommend that editors only use it as a guide track. If your goal is to get much better sound, you might consider using an off camera recording device like the Microtracker, R4, or something similar, and use it's line output to go into the camera. This way you have a better version of the audio, which you can use to replace the audio from your camera. This might be overkill depending on what you're doing, but I've never been happy with the audio on the GL-1 when using a beachteck, but I'm pretty picky when it comes to audio.

Wayne

Portable solid-state audio recorders
 

That sounds about right, I think this brings me to the other topic of portable compact solid-state audio recorders I came across:

Zoom H4
M-Audio MicroTrack II
Marantz PMD-620
Ikey Audio
Sony PCM-D50
Edirol R-09

A rather wide range to consider...

Alex

Don't forget about this one for a backup too.

http://www.fostexusa.com/index.php?f...ucts/pfr/fr2le

Beachtek DXA-6vu is the one you want for the HV-20. This one is not a preamp, just +48 phantom with level meters and some trim. It's a smaller profile because the HV-20 is a shorter cam.

MixPre is a good pre, but no way to mount it, you would need a sound operater, or carry it over your shoulder. I hooked up to the HV-20 once, and it mic level only going in. Mix Pre only has line level out.

>> I've seen guys with brackets. Call Sound Devices.
>> Sound Devices sells cables with built-in pads for mic leve inputs


>>Regards,

Ty Ford

More preamps
 

To not follow up my own post, here are some more portable preamps I came across after search other forums. Just FYI.

Church Audio Stereo mic preamp ST-8 on ebay
Denecke AD-20
Hitec Audio PreMobile 2 Vorverstärker (! :-)
NADY Systems DMP-2
MINIATURE LOW NOISE GAIN-SELECTABLE PORTABLE STEREO PREAMP
Aerco MP-2
Wendt X2

Alex

Ty, thanks for the reply. On another dvinfo thread Don and Alan mean the HV20 camera has a MIC ATTenuation feature that could be used with the camera's Mic in (no line-in entry on consumer camera).

By "cable with built-in pad" you mean some attenuation resistor? Would this be better in some wizardry way than the built-in MIC ATTenuation feature? (considering mixpre-to-hv20).

Thanks,

Alex

How 'bout a PSC DV Promix 1
http://www.professionalsound.com/Cat...Promix%201.htm

Dropped into a Bracket1 box
http://bracket1.com/brackets.php

Or Rover Aux Box
http://www.videosmith.com/shop/index...products_id=18

I haven't checked the size, but it should fit. You'll still need an XLR to 1/8" mini cable for the short run from mixer to camera.

Thanks for listing these. That bracket looks indeed promising, I'd prefer it instead of the box under...

Alex

Those are very interesting looking!

Just pointing out that the AD-20 listed above isn't a pre-amp, but rather an AD converter.

[I'm not sure, but after quickly skimming dvinfo posting rules and faqs it seems I can post the below. If not, sorry, I may have missed posting rules.]

Right, new to me.

Since my last post I've continued quest for quality portable preamps, here and across other forums and manufacturers.

Atlas Audio Pro Juggernaut
Black Lion Audio Sparrow Micro Series ADC (a AD converter actually)
Core Sound Mic2496 V2
N-Box
Sound Professionals SP-PREAMP
Cantar X2 (large)
FMR Audio Really Nice Preamp
The Broadhurst Gardens No. 1 Dual Channel Microphone Preamplifier
Rupert Neve Designs - Portico 5012 (rackable but apparently small)
Graham Patten DMIC 20
Sonosax SX-M2
Hitec Audio PreMobile 2
Fel Battery Microphone Amplifier BMA1
SOUND PROFESSIONALS - NEW! MINIATURE LOW NOISE GAIN-SELECTABLE PORTABLE STEREO PREAMP. MADE IN USA (sorry for caps)
Musical Fidelity X-Pre V3 Preamplifier (not sure size)
Sonic Studios PA-3SX

I hope there are no duplicates with the previous mentions.

Alex

But it seems it or a certain variation (Denecke AD-20/Zefiro Inbox dual Microphone Pre-Amp and 20-bit/44.1 A-to-D (Standalone)) does do preamp as well...

Alex

I guess I should be more specific. The AD-20 does have preamps, but it only outputs a digital signal. In other words, you couldn't connect it to any camcorder I'm aware of. It's a nice little AD converter though. It works nicely with HiMD and hard disk recorders. We use ours with a mixer (and the Denecke preamps turned off) and the signal to noise ratio is so far below that of any playback equipment I have that the hiss is essentially zero. I'm sure you'd hear it on high-end equipment. The internal preamps are only useable for about half the range however (that's why we use an external mixer). They get hissy pretty fast after that.

This sounds wonderful. Lowest noise is also what I'm after, after listening to downloaded mp3s recorded with I-dont-know-what-gear where one hears no noise.

I guess AD-20's output could also be fed to a 'bit bucket' like the digital part of the M-Audio MicroTrack recorder. I have a separate search ongoing on portable recorders.

But although these look portable, parking them all on a hv20 make it more and more bulky... trade-offs trade-offs...

Thanks for the information on AD-20 use and low-noise.

"I'm looking at battery-powered audio stereo preamps with phantom power to fit on a Canon HV20 camera, overall still cheaper and smaller than the Canon XH-A1 camera."

Why are you looking at pre-amps? The HV20 has no line input. Spend your money on decent, phantom powered microphones, and use a device like the Beachtek. This has a mic level output which goes straight into the HV20, which will give you the best sound quality the HV20 is capable of recording.

If you want top quality sound, record dual system. The Zoom H4 will record far better sound quality than any DV or HDV camera. If you want better sound than the Zoom H4, get a better flash recorder. If you want the best, get a Sound Devices 702 for $2,000.

Patrick

Thanks for the advice. I know I read like a newbie... I'm a total one :-) and paranoid on top of that :-)

Phantom-powered mics - yes, I've noticed the difference. But their phantom power tends to be big, the smallest and quality I could find seems to be Denecke PS-2. Then there's Schoeps CMBI running with a battery within the body. I'm searching now to see whether CMBI's output can go into line-in of something else, or must it be mic-in of that smth else.

Zoom H4 - yes, looks good with its built-in 48v phantom power, but seems big. Zoom H2 looks smaller but its Line-In can't be modified volume (other than digitally) and CMBI doesn't modify its output.

Sound Devices 702 - yes, quality, but big to 'park' on HV20.

I think I'm looking for smallest quality combination power+capsule+preamp+recorder... whatever that is. Seems to me that whenever a single high-quality AD is mentioned it's going to be big, similar for preamp, for recorder, etc. The devices that combine any of these things into one seem to be lacking in one aspect or another.

Not to mention that I want it twice (M/S Stereo :-)

Alex

Patrick, I'm going to disagree with you here. If you take an average to low output mic and send it directly into the H4, you will need to turn up the gain so high that noise and hiss will be a problem, as the mic preamps for external mics aren't very high quality. This may not be an issue with a higher output mic and could be circumvented with a quality preamp sending line-in to the H4. But of course if you start adding expensive quality gear to overcome the limitations of the H4, then you might be better off buying one of the Sound Devices 7XX series recorders, as you pointed out.

And it is possible to record excellent sound using a mic into a DV camcorder, as that sound is not compressed and some DV camcorders have an OK mic preamp. Also, in my testing, even sending a quality mixer output into an HDV camcorder gave me better sound than sending a mic directly into the H4. Of course HDV has audio compression, and it is noticeable, but not as noticeable to me as the hiss/noise of an H4 with an average to low output mic directly connected.