If you had to choose out of these 3 Lavs
 

Which one would you pick? Say you were using it for a documentary feature film in many different situations, whether in a car, or in a situation where your subject is moving a lot or just formal interviews.

My budget is $299 or under.

1) Voice Technologies VT500
2) Audio-Technica AT899C
3) Tram TR50

I choose these 3 from my research on:
http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/lavs_brockett.html

I did my audio testing on a pair of Event ASP8's and these are the 3 mics that sounded best to my ears.

It's not on your list, but I still go with the Sanken COS-11 lavs every time. It's the only lav I use (except when I have to rent, then I usually get stuck with the TRAMS). The Trams on your list are pretty good.

Wayne

Wayne, that's a bit out of my price range I think.

Cos11 should be right in your price range. Around $300. They are great sounding mics and the rubber mount makes them easy to hide.

Andy

I don't know Andy, BH shows U.S. $414.00 for the COS-11x kit. Have you checked with Trew or LSC? I have not, not sure what retails are.

Oliver, out of the mics you liked the best, I don't think you would go wrong with any of them but I personally have owned two of the Trams for going on 12 years, they are pretty solid. Not as small and easy to hide as the Countryman B6 but solid sound and pretty well built. Also cuts pretty well with a shotgun or hyper cardioid. I was actually surprised when I did the testing for the article, everyone always says how well the COS-11 cuts with shotguns, I thought the Tram cut more transparently with the shotgun/hyper than the Sanken did personally.

Dan

The only one on your list I have used is the Tram, but it is very satisfactory. I have only lower-end AudioTechnica and Sennheisers to compare with, so this may not be helpful, but the Trams do have a good reputation. //Battle Vaughan /miamiherald.com video team

The $414.00 for the COS-11x is probably for the hardwired XLR version.

The B&H price of $414 is for the Hardwired version. Based on Oliver's description he would be going wireless.

I've seen the Sanken cos 11 with just a pigtail cost around $299. It might cost a little more for the appropriate wireless connector to be soldered. I own B6s, Sonotrims (which are exactly like Trams but have better sonics) and Cos 11s. I mostly use the Cos 11s because they are a great sounding Lav and it is the most versatile and easiest to hide Lav of all the mics I own. I use the other Lavs I own too but I use the Sanken Cos 11 about 90 percent of the time.

Thread Hijack Alert: I've used that site MANY times and I never realized it was "our" own Dan Brockett...

The Cos11x is $299 for pigtail at B&H. Then you have to buy the connector, and if you can't solder small fittings, pay someone else to do that. What have you saved?

Or he could buy a Countryman B3 for under $200, or a Countryman B6 for $299-$314 ready to go. Or the Tram, or the PSC, or the Sonotrim.

I would have loved the Sanken, but sometimes, you can only spend, what you can spend.

It should only cost another $25 to $40 max to have any Audio House solder the proper connector for you. I'm not sure if B&H does that but most other Audio House do. A Countryman B6 is nice but is very limiting and you won't be able to use it outdoors. I'm not familiar with the B3

Since Oliver will be using the Lav for Documentary I think the ease of hiding the Cos 11 will make up for the temporary pain of paying a few extra dollars.

Not to derail the thread, but why can't you use the B6 outdoors? Never heard that one before.

Could someone please provide me with a link on B&H to the COS-11x setup I would need to use with my xha1 (has phantom power) and Sennheiser ew500.

I was using the Countryman B3s but when I got the ATW-1800 system I wasn't able to find the wiring schematic to convert the B3's to use with the new mic system, so I had to use AT's 899CW mics.

To my surprise the 899CW's sound about as good as the Countryman mics. Seems well balanced, and they are just a little bigger than the Countryman B3s.

AT's 899 sounds IS a nice sounding mic. A little more prone to pick-up clothing and cable noise than the aforementioned Tram or COS IMO.

Oliver, if you wish to use a COS-11 hard-wired as well as with a the EW-500, you would need a phantom power module that has a 3.5mm TRS input and XLR out. I have TA-5 to XLR modules ( Lectro type plug) but have not seen a mini TRS to XLR . I suggest you contact Trew Audio, Location Sound Corp. or other Location audio specialty shops... unless someone on this forum has a solution.

No, I am using this WIRELESS

This:
http://svc226.bne095u.server-web.com...SEN_UHF_-2.jpg

Substitute "mini TRS" for whatever that models plug is. Could be a Lemo or Hyrose???

What I meant about not using a Countryman B6 outdoors is that they are extremely sensitive to any kind of wind and most people who own them don't use them outdoors. The B6 is the smallest mic capsule made and they are very easy to hide. You can stick one through a button hole or a tie knot and because of their tiny size they are difficult for the camera to see. It is a great mic to have in your kit. They sound surprisingly good. But if I had to buy just one Lav it wouldn't be a B6.

Ive narrowed it down to the

Tram TR50
Tram | TR50SQ - Omni-Directional Lavalier Condenser | TR50BSET+

or the Voice Technologies VT500.
Voice Technologies | VT500 - Flat Frequency Lavalier | VT0015

I called B&H and they recommend the Voice Technologies VT500 becuase they said it's hardwired together unlike the TR50 which can come apart.

Ok, gotcha!

I have a Countryman B3 which is of course quite similar to the B6, just .1mm larger. It sounds terrific to be honest, but I haven't used it outside. I do have the foam windscreen, and if using it outside would either use it under clothing, or with wind protection.

For the money, they do sound amazing.

I've used both the Tram and the Countryman and found both pretty equal. I like them because they seem "sharper" than the others, and that's nice when you bury the mic, as you normally do with a lav.

Oliver, I have both Trams and Voice Technologies (the VT 506 model I believe which has a slightly different emphasis than the standard unit which sounds a little more natural when hidden) for my Lectrosonics wireless. I bought the VT's on the recommendation of one of my rental company suppliers as they seem to be a little more durable than my old trams and sound about as good. Also supply was more consistent with the VT company so I have transitioned to them. Tram was basically Ted Rapp and Ted is no longer with us so they only make what he left them. Both VT and Tram are less expensive than Sanken Cos-11 and come with better clips. The Sankens sound better but have poorer wind protection. Good Luck

It's true the cos 11 clips are not the best but they are definitely useable. There smallness makes them harder to use in certain situations but the upside is that they are low profile and when I am doing Network News and it is OK to show the mic they look really tidy. I have never been in a situation where I couldn’t use the clip.


The Cos 11 comes with a very small wire mesh windscreen that is very decent in mild wind conditions. But for windier situations I use a low profile foam windscreen made by Lectrosonics which I place on top of the wire mesh windscreen. It looks much better than Tram’s foam windscreen which I think is ugly and it is a smaller profile and offers much better wind protection than the Tram setup. I am not familiar with the VT windscreens so I can’t comment. For really windy situations there isn’t any lav windscreen that works well unless you are talking about a Microcat which is a small furry windscreen made by Remote Audio.

If you are hiding the lav underclothing then using a windscreen is moot. That is why I like the Cos 11 so much. It comes with a rubber mount that you stick the lav into and it really makes hiding and protecting the mic from wind and clothing much easier. Another advantage to the rubber mount is that when you place the mic properly in the mount it gives you a high frequency boost which is very handy when burying under clothing.

Hiding Lavs and protecting them from the wind can be a challenge but I think the Cos 11 for me is the easiest to work with.

Just my 2 cents

Andy,
All of your comments about the Sanken Cos-11 confirm my experience about them as well. What I don't understand is why Sanken doesn't deliver a system of clips which work as well as the Tram or VT in addition to the mic they have designed? I could understand it if the clip somehow represented a significant materials cost to make correctly but it just seems to be a poor understanding of how the lavalier is used in the field. The Sanken is one of the more expensive lavalier designs on the market so to say the alligator clip is not great but usable reflects poorly on the product line more than some other less expensive system. Luckily other people have made better accessories for the Sanken then Sanken. By the way the VT windscreen is a little smaller than the Tram windscreen so its profile is just a little bit better than the Tram. I can understand going with the Trams and VT if I didn't have enough money for the Sanken and I wouldn't worry about using either Tram or VT right out of the box as intended with the supplied accessories. My 2 cents

Thanks for your help everyone!

I decided to go with the Voice Technologies VT500. I really liked the way it sounded and it is right in my price range.

O.D.

Daniel,

I was not happy with the clip when I first bought the Cos11 and I even wrote an email to Sanken but never got a response. It would be nice if Sanken spent some more design time on their clips. I wouldn’t want the clips to be as big as a tram clip but somewhere in between.

I also use Sanken’s double lav clip when I am wiring Correspondent for live shots. That is a bit of a challenge but I have learned how to make it work.

I do really like the Cos 11 and I bought 4 more cos 11s after my first one despite their poor clip design.

Who are the other people that make Cos 11 Accessories? I’ve seen the vampire tube clip for the Cos 11 and have considered trying it. Do you know of other clips that people use with it?

This is turning into a clip discussion again! lol

I already did this one! (at that time I was going with the Tram)
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/all-thing...-mic-clip.html

=)

Thanks again guys.

For me a lav clip is secondary to the sound of the mic and how easily it is to hide under clothing. After 6 years of using the Cos 11 I don't even think about the clip anymore. Once the Cos 11 Lav is in place with it's clip, the small profile actually looks really cool and sleek.

Outdor use of a Lavalier Microphone
 

I have had some success using a home made fur covering with my lav mics outdoors. Most location sound engineers only boom from overhead using a fur covered blimp in a windy location.

Personally after acquiring two Cos 11's I would never use the trams I own again as first choice. The Sankens just sound so much better. To me they sound by far the most like a quality standard size mic than other small lav mic's. The B6 I have not used. Used the B3's though.