So is there nothing good in under say $200 US for a good cardioid / semi-supercardioid mic and maybe stereo? Okay. I'll just wait a couple of years and check back then. :-((

Frank
hear this site:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~hvdbos/cd.htm
This guy is using the Sennheiser E835. The sound is very good.
I use it as a voiceover. It sounds better as the legendary Shure SM58 which is still widely used in studios.

Most of us work with a camcorder that costs no more as 5000 euro and most of us will not buy for a couple of thousands of microphones.

In this thread i have put some mic samples:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...threadid=19206
To me it shows that the difference is not that big, when you stay away form shotguns.
It is surprising to see what cheaper mics like Shure and Behringer and the Sennheiser Evolution series do, related to the most expensive mics.

Myself i don't like the Oktavas that much as other members. All the recordings I heard from the Oktava's are to bassy for me. They don' t sound like Rode NT1000 for instance. That is flat but crisp. I am very curious to hear the Behringer B-5. It has a low-cutt filter which is important for video. It should be more crisp as the Okatava and sells for 116 euro.

Often to much bass in the surroundings can distort your audiosignal and a flat response curve is not well suited for voice and videorecording.
For video the voicerecording is most important.
That is why I like the Sennheiser MD 421-II so much. It is a general purpose and very crisp sounding mic. The roll off filters can be adjusted for every situation, which is important for videorecording.
I think this gives videorecording that clarity that may be prefered above being supercardiode.

I have read more and nore comments that cardiode instead of supercardiode is not a very bad choice for video.
I still doubt about the advantage of supercardiode above cardioide. One thing is for sure: I will stay away from shotguns.

Thanks a bunch, Jan. I'm going to print this out, go over it, and look into those links. Again, thank you.

<<<-- Originally posted by Matt Gettemeier :
I'm so impressed with the Oktava that I might even get something specific from Rycote... maybe a mini-zepp and jammer or something. I hear a lot of people say the Oktava can't take the wind, but how many of them have it protected as good as they'd protect a shotgun? Put some fur and foam on it and it may be ok?-->>>

Yes, the Oktava can take winds, as long as it's inside a Rycote or Lightwave casket.

<<<-- I don't know. One thing's for sure... at $49 it leaves a lot of budget for proper support. -->>>

Good advice: you should invest in a proper support. Pick shockmounts that have internal bodies holding the mic, as they will allow picking softer rubber strings that will make the mic float inside the external ring. So you may need some tuning on the rubber used on external mic holders. When you move the combo it should wobble lik gelatine.

Oktavas MC012 are studio microphones, not boom microphones. Boom mics usually have some sort of rubber or foam holding the capsule; studio mics rarely do.

Beyer used to make an excellent shockmount, that adjusted to several mic diameters. It's hard to find it now.

The key question is to get a rubber tuning that will filter boom handling.

<<<-- Another thing you'll love about this mic is that it's so understated. The damn thing is only about 4" long. Can you imagine the EASE of booming a 4" mic? If you hit the ceiling OR drop the mic into frame then you're an idiot. -->>>

Using short microphones, like the Oktava, Schoeps or Neumann mics, particularly with swivel adapters, allows you booming in low ceiling rooms.

<<<-- With a shockmount you really CAN use this as an on-camera mic. Of course I don't normally do that, but I did test it just so I'd know my options in a pinch and it BLOWS the F*** out of the on-cam mics in my DVX. -->>>

Good to know that you normally don't use this or any mic as on-camera mikes. You shouldn't for quality dialogue picking. Only interviews done at a short distance with your zoom at wide angle may allow you that. You may also risk picking cameras noises, mechanical or handling.

Doing a through search and tests as you did would be a waste if you then put the chosen mic on your camera.

<<<-- How about the times when you just want to float around with your camera i.e. family functions, wedding parties, "making of feature", extreme run and gun... it's nice to know that you have an option that's WAY better then simply using the camera mic. -->>>

"News style" shooting, run and gun as you call them, can benefit from on-camera mic picking. Weddings or family parties will not suffer from it. But to get real quality sound you should boom your mic.


Carlos E. Martinez

This is all very interesting.

Matt, where from are your going to order Hyper caps for your Oktavas? I'd like to do the same, as I am really impressed with my two $49 M012's.

I mounted an Oktava on-camera with an AT8415, that pretty much eliminated any camera handling noise.

Has anyone tested the AT873r handheld hyper-c ($190)? It looks pretty darn good (5.1oz, 140dB SPL, good sensitivty, etc.) and might just make a great boom-pole mic.

I assume the A4053a hyper-c ($525) is awesome.

Finally, I hope you get your hands on the new AT897 short shotgun. I'm guessing AT has made its best ENG shotgun with this new model, at least the specs look excellent.

Thanks and cheers...

If you follow my posts, you'll see the AT873r pop up quite a few times. (I keep waiting for someone to say "will you stop already with the AT873r's!!").
I like this mic very much for its clarity, sensitivity, very small size and weight, low handling noise, low cost and matte black finish. It's certainly not the lowest noise mic around and I haven't directly compared it to an Oktava, but for interior booming it works very well for me for corporate work. I'm pretty certain it has lower handling noise than the Oktava, which is generally the only complaint most people have with a good QC'ed Oktava.
This AT uses an extremely small diaphragm, so its clarity comes at the expense of that phat sound even when used close up. It's definitely not a VO mic, but if you want good clarity without harshness it will definitely do that, especially if you must use it further away than you'd like. The NT3 is lower noise and warmer sounding, but much less practical for manual booming.
It also has relatively low off-axis coloration and it's easy to wind protect due to its traditional shape but very small size.
I think it's a great tool to have on hand, as long as you have full 48-volt phantom and you don't need it for VO.

The only place I know to order the Oktava hyper caps is http://www.sound-room.com

If you're only ordering TWO caps then the charge to "match them" seems a little high to me. I'd be very interested to see how they match them. (It's the same price to match 1-3 pairs of caps.)

I sent out a goofy recording of me opening a Diet Coke and shaking a rocks glass. It's a stereo recording with an NTK tube mic and one of the Oktavas. Hardly a matched set. Know what? It sounds pretty damn good.

Maybe $64 each kind of sucks after you got a compete mic for $49, but we can't be choosers here. Just because we got a bargain in one area doesn't mean that other businesses shouldn't make a reasonable living.

At least that's how I'm looking at it. Also since the Sound Room has such a good rep regarding the Oktavas you should be getting the best caps available.

About the only thing that DOES concern me is that last point. If they have the best Oktava inventory then how far from "matched" can two hyper caps BE?

BTW Aaron, the first thing it says at Sound Room is "We ship worldwide".

If you get the total Oktava kit right from the start their prices are reasonable... otherwise get a mic on ebay and buy the caps from the Sound Room? I don't know if that's a good idea or not?

Had I known I would like this mic this much I would have just got 'em as a complete 3 cap kit. The piece of mind is worth the extra cash over the lowest possible sale price from a less meticulous dealer.

Matt, Yeah I noticed that on their site ;) Sent an email off for pricing costs to here. Found a New Zealand distributor too finally so I will see if they stock them. Then I might be able to go in and try them. Your US$49 dollars was a steal! It's about US$190 now for one mic. You lucky sod! If they turn out to be better for what I need than my ME66 then I might sell the ME66 and I'd still have some cash spare.


Aaron

How come the Limies, Kiwi's n' Aussies all call people they like a silly sod, or a lucky sod? Me old grandmum used to tell me "now don't be a silly sod , dear"

Next tuesday will be the founding meeting of Gear Sluts Anon. Today Matt buys another mic , a Rode NT3 and I order a matched pair of THE hytpercardoids. Maybe if we put them in a cage together, ply them with cheap wine and soft music they'll reproduce.

Hmm that's interesting actually....I have no idea of it's historical origins but It's usually used, in the case of "lucky sod" as a congratulation mixed with a bit of jealousy or envy. Sod is a very tame insult, if it can be called that at all (Like the word "bugger" in "Ya lucky bugger").

This reminds me of a WWE (World Wrestling Entertainment) show where they went to Australia. Some of the wrestlers were talking with a local and the local said something along the lines of "Yeah yeah, I know who you buggers are." They took offence thinking of course "bugger" to be a vile word. ;)

Good old slang aye!

Well, guess before it even starts I have cured myself from having to join "Gear Sluts Anonymous" by going and buying a house :)...Although the temptation is oh so there, especially with the exchange rates to the US at the moment. I still need a production video monitor....DV deck....Light kit....

Aaron

The house is paid for Aaron, I'm older than dirt. Why i'm a gear slut. Cuz I like toyz.

I watched a buddy scrap along and save, he got sick and rode it out and still worked. The end of last March he went home and took disability, he died like a dog within a month. He was also 10 years younger than me. He never did the things he dreamed about. My wife will have one hell of a garage sale when they put me in the big tool box.


I was born in Britain and immigrated to canada so i know what a sod is. I always thought it funny. It actually is an affectionate term.

Haha Bryan! Older than dirt is damned old ;)

Yup it's a shame too many people never even think they can do the things they dream about so don't bother.

Ahh so that's what a Hoser it? I used to listen to an old Canadian punk band that had a song called "Kill the Hosers" Never knew what one was but it was a funny song ;)

Oops, anyway I've gone OT. Oktava distributor away on holiday til Monday so I have to wait for a price list til then.

Aaron

About the Behringer B-5, is it a cardioid, or a cardioid that's stretches forward a bit more like a semi-supercardioid? Is there a product website anywhere?

www.behringer.com: http://www.behringer.com/B-5/index.cfm?lang=eng

The B-5 is a short capsule preamp with 2 capsules. one cardoid and one omni. The pickup of an omni is like a circle, 360 degrees. The cardoid (heart shaped pattern) has about a 140-160 degree -pattern, almost a semi circle.

A hyper cardoid is tighter and listens to an area like a big pie wedge, usually to 120 degrees. A hyper has a bit of a tail , in that it picks up sound directly behind it.

There is no inexpensive mic that will zoom and change patterns properly. The little Apex cardoid seems to hold the most promise. i'll pack my recorder and try to find one

Thanks for the explaination; and I already go the link from Jan, but missed it.

http://www.behringer.com/02_products...d=B-5&lang=eng

"One cardoid and one omni," eh? That's no good. That's not what I'm looking for. I'll be looking forward to more info on that Apex, Bryan. Thanks, again.

I had an APEX 190 that was part of a bundle. The mic had good sound for it's very low cost (worked out to about $10 as I figured it). Unfortunately, after it warmed up (like 5 minutes) it seemed to have a thermal problem that sounded like phantom leakage.
It started out very small as problems with phantom power go, I could just barely distinguish it at first. But it seemed to be getting worse and worse and became intolerable. At that point I decided to examine the guts and see how it was built. All surface mount circuitry, so hot-rodding it like the Oktava was not possible, even if I could have found a schematic. I was amazed that the mic could have such good sound with how ultra-cheap the actual capsule and its mount appeared to be. Also don't expect to put your mic back together if you try this at home, removing the innards was pretty destructive.
It's now my official "Matte Black Secret Agent Micro-Shotgun That Can Hear A Whisper At 50 yards Movie Prop". It really is a great looking mic body, but unfortunately that's not high on the list of attributes for mics...
If you try one out, be sure to power it for at least 10 minutes and listen very closely with sensitive headphones for a tiny crunchy rumble.

Another link for mic samples..
 

Found this will looking for Oktava mc012 sellers.

http://testing.holmerup.biz/mic_pretest/index_en.html

Contains guitar, and vocals (Singing, unfortunately not dialogue)

I've downloaded some stuff but listening at work all the mics sound almost the same - i.e. My speakers suck dogs bollocks.

The singing is a little off but might be at least something for you.


Aaron

Thanks for the link, Aaron.

Can I assume that the high end clipping is just from not having their levels set correctly, and not from something inherently bad with the mics?

Also, anyone know what the Octave MC 012 Lomo M3 is? Sounds like a special edition BMW :).

The LOMO 3 head is a 33mm lollipop cardoid capsule, that will scew onto an oktava preamp. $380 at the sound room.

http://www.oktava.com/

"Incredible-sounding additions to your MC012! Both heads use the 33mm diaphragm, LOMO-designed capsule now being re-manufactured for RTT. Yes, these are the Russian-made replacement diaphragms made for the famous Neumann U87 cardioid. and they have that famous 'warm yet bright' ambient field with a classic cardioid (Uni) head design. You don't have to buy a complete "high-end" large diaphragm unit, because this operates off your MC012 preamp! With these, there is NOTHING you can't do with a complete MC012 assembly - and do it well. "

My set of matched hypercardoid THE's are on the way. Whoooo Hooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! they weren't sure if they wouldget a match withwhat they had left. The next shipment from the factory would be a month out.

When I get them i will record a test and compare them to the oktava hypercardoid and the ME66 (simply as a comparison because so many people have that mic)

Thanks, Beaser.

I'll be awaiting your report on the THE's.

Joe, I'm not sure about that. I haven't listened to them all and like I said only at work on my crap speakers so I didn't notice any clipping.

Bryan, some tests of your fancy new mics would be great! How come you got a matched pair? For stereo work or something?

Aaron

The THE mics use a modular approach with a preamp and separate capsule that screws on. THE will match any number of capsules free , so why not. The preamps can support 7 different capsules from 1/2" to 33mm (1.29") diaphrams.

I'll test them when I get them. They have to get from Conneticut (east coast USA) to Vancouver Island (as far as you can go west in Canada) and then back to Ontario which is north of NY State. They'll be well travelled.