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-   -   I don't have line in. How about these solutions? (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/all-things-audio/19813-i-dont-have-line-how-about-these-solutions.html)

Rob Hester January 14th, 2004 02:18 PM

I don't have line in. How about these solutions?
Gasping? :(
I do not know much about audio electronics, so I am wondering about an external mic - I have tons of questions about this one..the big one is just that if i know the connections for R and L, what is the reason I cannot just wire them up to an external mic directly? Would i blow the cirucuit on board?

I don't really have a warrenty, I am canadian and thats the price I pay for not buying it from a canadian store
The lowest price for the 3000 was $2499 CAD
I got it (reasonably) for $700US

I don't want to fry my camera by any means, so if you feel inclined to warn me about anything please oh PLEASE do!

The other thing is - the camera has a hot shoe adapter and you can attach JVC mics - I want a better quality one, and there are pins in the info shoe which directly corrolate to L and R

So I have two options
  • dismantle the onboard mic, create a switch with an female line in plug
  • wire up something to the hot shoe adapter and keep everything external
I REALLY don't know enough about this, so that's why I am asking for this forum to come to my aid.

What about camera noise?
I want to get away from the motor noise, zoom noise, etc...by no means do I have the money to buy XLR adapters or $1200 mics.

I might look into buying something ~200ish but it would be to last me, possibly past this camcorder?

Thanks for taking the time to read this, it's probably a stupid idea - but crazier things have been attempted.
Thanks again,

Joe Sacher January 14th, 2004 04:18 PM

What model of camera do you have? It seems that most will have a microphone input.

Rob Hester January 14th, 2004 06:06 PM

trust me. it doesn't


Mike Rehmus January 14th, 2004 06:09 PM

If the camera has an external microphone mini-jack, then get a $100 XLR adapter or build your own. Then you can select any microphone.

I wouldn't start messing with the internals. If you want, maybe you buy one of their external microphones and sacrifice it.

Rob Hester January 14th, 2004 06:49 PM

again, it doesn't. and i also said for now an XLR was way out of my budget.

cmon guys please fully read what i wrote, i did take time to write it

hopefully someone out there can at least tell me the risks involved? i am confident that if i knew how, it could be done - people have done it using a dismantled jvc mic that fits into the info shoe and camcorderinfo.com - but THAT mike alone is $200, and I don't want to spend that much just to dismantle it and not use it for its purpose, i'd rather figure out how to do it, and spend $200 on a quality mic

PLEASE! someones gotta be out there who could help

thanks for the replies guys, thanks for your time

Federico Dib January 14th, 2004 07:02 PM

Have you considered an external device, like a minidisc or something like that?... You can beg, borrow or steal one...

I canīt imagine exactly why would you risk doing that to your camera.

Iīm not an electronic expert, but I do know a bit, Iīve done my deal of screwing around with it... and I learned enough to know that if you donīt know what you are doing... and applying a bit of Murphyīs Law.. you are going to fry something in there.

I mean if itīs that important to get away from motor noise... Maybe itīs worth investing in something less risky..

If itīs a one deal shooting.. you could rent or borrow stuff?

Rob Hester January 14th, 2004 07:13 PM

i've thought about it, and was excited when my friend (roomate now) bought a minidisc player- except, its too low down the line to have line in capabilities :(

I have researched, and even on ebay any one with line in is expensive :(

I am a university student...and that means prettymuch zero budget

I am used to maximizing what i can for my dollar - things that have worked for me in the past:
  • overclocking computers (if anyone remembers old celerons - you could boost them up to be just as fast for WAY less money)
  • using hacked firmware to change my 4x CD Writer into a 6x one
  • mass mailing over 140 stores with a parts list for my new computer to get the most competitive quote (still ended up being $3500 - very intelligent buy, self built is the only way to fly)
  • getting progressive scan on a cheap ass camcorder
there's tons more...but lots of times things are much more capable than they are advertised as - I missed out on this and bought the ATI 9700 PRO, but there was a way to upgrade a 9500 (1/3rd the price) by firmware to unlock the blocked pipelines and effectivly making it a 9700 PRO.

I know my camera is capable of using an external mic (no line in) through the info shoe - there are two you can buy from JVC. I just don't want a JVC one. Reasonably then, i have a hunch that I can mod my camera to accept a regular line in plug - something others have already proven true...but those users just dismantled their already purchased JVC mics.

please keep with me!
thanks again

Bryan Beasleigh January 14th, 2004 07:34 PM

You say that the camera has no mic input as a 3.5mm stereo female plug in.

It does have mic in through the hot shoe.

If that is the case then don't expect someone to go out on a limb and tell you how to hack the camera. You knew what you were buying . I remember the posts well.

Have you talked to JVC (in the US) and asked if there is a hot shoe adapter of any kind? Have you posted questionds of this nature to other groups, specifically JVC user groups.

It is within the realm of possibility to modify a JVC(male external component) hot shoe and mount a 3.5mm stereo jack to it. For that you'd need a schematic.

Best option is to buy the cheapest JVC mic that'l mount and hack that.

I checked the JVC site for adapters. What I looked for was

A "info shoe" adapter with a jack

A light or flash that runs off of the info shoe and that has a mic in jack so you can run a light and mic at the same time

A cheap mic that runs off the info shoe

The answer was no to each. the mic was $150 US List

A note for future audio purchases

there are several suppliers whose prices equal or are less than the US suppliers right in TO.

Bryan Beasleigh January 14th, 2004 07:51 PM

I just remembered, AVR Comunications (www.avr.ca) had some Sony mini disks that they sell to broadcasters, that do have a line in. they were around $325. I know it was last years model. the guy stocked up on them before they were discontinued , because they were reasonable and they did the job.

Glenn Chan January 14th, 2004 08:27 PM

I think you're better off asking the person on camcorderinfo.com who hacked their hot shoe mic for more information.

As far as mics go, I don't think you can get too much with $200. A decent mic is the Sony MS907/908 (908 is camcorder version) for $100-somethingCDN or so. Quite a few places in Toronto stock it. The quality is "pretty good" (relative to what, I don't really know) but I don't think it's very directional. The Sony 930 is a lemon from my experience. If you can figure out how to connect it to your camera then you might be set.

Rob Hester January 14th, 2004 11:46 PM

the reason i came here is because they didn't answer. the discussion died 3 months ago and no one visits there who was in the group who had done it.
$200US? there HAS to be something better than what is in camera! i read a post seeing an me66 going for $179?


If that is the case then don't expect someone to go out on a limb and tell you how to hack the camera. You knew what you were buying . I remember the posts well.
The only other camera in this price range was the 853, and it had a smaller chip and no progressive scan. As I needed this for recreational use as well as some fiddling around with short movies (into digital files, not tv viewing), it was my best bet (still is).
I am in no way demanding an answer, sorry if I came off that way :(. If you don't like me asking thats okay...sorry if I have angered anyone - honestly...not meaning to make enemies here, i'd like to make some sort of a name for myself on here...at least known and respected as a contributing member to the forum. I posted some work on DV compression in the Open DV Discussion forum, and questions about enlarging DV to HD in the Film forum...I don't mean to be negative,

$329 for a MD player, plus buying a mic is too much
thanks for the idea though

thanks again for the replies! Rob

Bryan Beasleigh January 15th, 2004 12:44 AM

The ME66 is $179 US but the K6 modulke is another 210 US plus shipping. That's 389 plus about $35 shipping . That's atad over $500.

I really don't think this forum can help you hack a mic or your camera.

Rob Hester January 15th, 2004 02:11 AM

Beaser, all around this forum people are trying to find cheaper ways to do things, getting a better bang for the buck. Why not give it a go and ask around? Exaust all possible options?

Your feelings of me from dv.com are seem to be coming through in a certain tone and I feel obliged to point them out. I could be entirely wrong, but thats how its coming - I didn't realize it was you...but the way you replied gave me a hint, then seeing Barrie ON, doing a quick check at DV.com and the puzzle was solved. am trying nothing to be disruptive, attacking, or anything else inconsiderate.

I am a poor university student and was looking for some fix - even if it was not up to YOUR standards (and I know they are high when it comes to audio), they may be a suitable solution for me. If you don't think that you can help me, okay. But please, someone out there may have some help for me, please don't speak for the forum as a whole...this forum has it's own ways of dropping ideas which will not be entertained. If this is the case, I am fully prepaired to accept that conclusion.

On a side note, I am at UWO now, if you remember me saying I would be coming here in the fall - would you like me to ask my film prof about my camera? (interlace vs progressive) It does take time...but if you are curious...i'd sorta hope you were, i *think* it was you that suggested I ask...if i'm wrong, sorry. Maybe you could personally msg me? I don't want to canabalize this thread...it's pretty important to me.

Thanks Bryan,

Joe Sacher January 15th, 2004 10:33 AM

I can feel for you. I remember my poor college student days. Let me put it this way: I graduated as an Electrical Engineer. I can tell you flat out that there is no way I can just lay out a 10 step process to "hack" your camera. The nice thing about a mic/line in jack is that they are consistent (within reason) as to the impedance and levels that are expected. In might be possible to find some lines that go into your camera and rig a mic off of that. I don't know. Even with my knowledge, I wouldn't try to modify the actual location where the on-board mic is attached. I would guess that optimizations and tuning have been done, specific to the on-board mic. This means that unless you use the same mic off the camera, it won't work all that well, if at all.

The hot shoe seems to be the best method of getting sound into the camera. Draw a diagram of the hot shoe and label the contacts. Now get a voltmeter. Power up the camera and record voltages from contact to contact in a table. Use a low level audio signal (from a walkman or something) and try some combinations. Whatever. This is called hacking. This may break your camcorder. This may never give you the information to get done what you want. This is life.

The easiest method would be to get the $150 mic that attaches to the top of the camcorder and call it a day. Alternatively, make an adaptor to extend the hot shoe signals away from the camera. Although, you need to be careful about getting long wires, as the shoe's electronics might not be designed to allow the wire runs of any major distance.

Rob Hester January 15th, 2004 02:30 PM

Thanks Joe, I appreciate the information! Your right, obviously there is a huge risk...I am aware of that...but then again that's life right?


Use a low level audio signal
If I used something louder I run a greater risk, correct? Is there any way of determining or guesstimating what levels would be the upper limits?

The hot shoe has been diagramed (sort of) and the contacts have been labeled...if I showed you the contacts would you be able to tell me a bit about them? There are probably about 12 - I am wondering if I need a ground connected or something before trying this - again if you don't know thanks for the help so far, I honestly really appreciate you taking your time to lend your 2 cents especially since you even warn against it...thank you!


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