Best way to record sounds of nature??
 

I'm working on some slide shows which include stills & short video clips. Scene is a small, secluded resort-like setting in the mountains. I'd like to capture some of the sounds of nature to use behind the shows, but not sure how to go about it.

For example, early in the morning the birds are very active and quite vocal. There's also a stream on the property, wind through the pines, bees buzzing... that kind of thing.

Of course I want the best possible sounds for the lowest price-- sound familiar? :) At this point I only have the on-board mic with the Canon A1, and a Zoom recorder. Any advice as to what kind of mic to look at along with any other tips would be much appreciated.

Tim

Tim,

The traditional approach to this kind of natural sound is to use a very directional hyper-cardiod or line-gradient pattern mic. (often referred to as a "long-shotgun" mic.

The advantage of the pattern is that the mic rejects off-axis sounds so you can point the mic element at the kinds of sounds you're seeking and reduce the overall environmental sound field of stuff like the wind in the trees or the babbling of the nearby stream - UNLESS you want those sounds, and if so, you simply point the mic element at those.

The problem is that in the wild, you're typically quite a way from the source of the sound. The bird might be 50 feet away in the tree. The inverse square principal tells us that the bird sound will therefore be 1/2500th as loud as it would be if you got a mic within a foot of it.

So one extremely critical aspect of any mic used to record nature sounds is it's SELF-NOISE rating. Which measures the inherent sound it's own electronics add to the amplification process.

Sensitive mics with extremely low self noise require both careful design and premium components. Both of which are naturally expensive.

So sorry, but there really aren't any "cheap" mics that are well suited to the task you're considering.

Better to consider renting something. You can often get a suitable long shotgun style mic with good specs for a couple of hundred bucks a day.

That - fed into a good quiet recording chain, will get you the results you're looking for FAR better than trying to buy something.

Do a web search under Nature sound recording and the mics from Audio Technica and Sennheiser might be a good place to start.

Good luck.

Hi Tim............
 

For Nature sounds, about the best way I know is using something like this:

Braodcast Lil' Ears Products

With a bit of luck you may find somewhere reasonably local who rents these out.

Failing that, try your local TV station (if you have one), they may have one they'd do a deal on if there's no games on.


CS

have you ever tried a satellite dish? One of the local schools had a couple of 1.2m dishes laying around after an upgrade and the physic teacher found that pointed at each other, with ear/mouth at the point where the LNB should have been, that conversations could take place easily across quite large distances. The Big-ears style dishes are simply light weight parabolas, with the microphone at the focal point - I'd suggest a small condenser cardioid mic at this point might well pick up worthwhile distant sounds. Collecting sound effects is a pretty good hobby thing, too - if you have a condensor approaching 600mm in length - in a windshield, Zepplin style with hairy cover - you'll get decent results. Using the cheapest kit available - Chinese made 'no brand' mic and Indian windshield system, you could be up and running for about $200? If you are a real cheapskate, then you can even make your own windshield housing for peanuts. Not sure if you call it the same thing in the states. Chicken wire? thin mesh with square holes? used for keeping creatures in a pen?. Make a tube out of it. bend in front end completely, leave a hole at the rear big enough to insert microphone. For suspension, strong elastic bands inserted top/bottom and left/right at the front, middle and rear. Slide/twist in a cheap shotgun - there are some pretty decent ones available as imports for around £50-60 - I assume that this would be $80-100 ish? Cover it with fur fabric - and although heavier than proper ones, it does work. Before buying 'real' ones, I made a few of these. The end versions used an AKG isolation mount, to give me a mic stand attachment. It's still kicking around in the store somewhere, if anyone needs a picture. For outside stuff, I found expensive kit not always best - Sennheiser 816s do not like being out in the rain!

Hi Bill,

Great info-- thanks much. Your advice to:

has produced some great resources. I'm willing to make an investment in quality gear, it's just that my usual method is to get my feet wet for perhaps a few hundred bucks, then if things work out well upgrade from there.

Hi Paul,

I have to admire your outside-the-box ideas here.

As I posted to Bill, my usual approach is get started with a simple system then upgrade from there if it seems worthwhile. But hey, I do have an old 10 foot C-Band satellite disn here. I could mount that sucker in the back of a pickup and use that! :-)

But seriously, I too find that often various types of hand made systems can often get the job done just as effectively and at much less cost than much more expensive manufactured ones. I'll keep your advice in mind.

About 30 years ago I built one of these paras out of a plastic camping salad bowl. Stuck a mic at the focal point which was kept inplace by a 1/4" wire stanchion that led into a handle . .. must dig it out again .. total cost? about 3 quid . .

Oh yeah, got sounds deep into the Kalahari bush, way further than I was prepared to do on foot .. oh yes!

Grazie

Parabolic reflectors from one of my favorite sources since 1965:

Large Parabolic Reflectors - Science Gifts - Edmund Scientific

But I read that mics using reflectors like this have poor sound--good only for picking up grunts at football games. Would like to hear better news.

Tim:

Lowest possible cost suggests stock. Have you considered Download Sound Effects | SoundDogs.com ? I would only go through the trouble of recording ambient if there were something unique and one of a kind about the sound. From everything you describe, it sounds like typical mountain ambient beds, there are thousands of them available, recorded by top pros with the best gear for very little money on-line.

If you need something special, I would go for it but if it is just typical ambient, I would use stock.

Dan

You will find the website of the Wildlife Sound Recording Society very useful.

for another approach I can recommend these: SOUNDMAN

I use these for ambience recording, they can be worn inside the ears and as such act as "Kunstkopf" mics and give a very realistic ambient recording, the total opposite of parabolic sound....

I built a pro quality parabolic microphone using a 22 inch dish and it works great for birds with a higher pitched songs. Recording bass is a bit more difficult with the parabolic mic.

I suggest a med to long high quality shotgun a good recorder and a set of headphones. Make sure you have Rycote style fur covering for any wind.

I use a Sennheiser MKH 416 and a Fostex FR-2LE Field Recorder.

Sennheiser 816 is the usual mic for wildlife recording, and a lot of time and patience.

A good friend of mine Chris Watson is one of the best in the world and his web site is here:| Chris Watson |

This is one of my favourite threads so far: lots of good links and good information.

I think your zoom, with the gain set to "High" would be good enough for your needs. Best to do it when there's no wind. If you have a bass rolloff even better. You can do that in post though too.

Get as close as you can. Use headphones. Set the unit down or put on a tripod. Handling noise is bad.

Good luck!

Hi Chad,

I think that's good advice, and given that's something I already have it makes sense to start there and use that as a baseline to compare against perhaps some of the more sophisticated options described here going forward.

I assume that all of the mics out there could be connected to the Zoom-- with some kind of adapter if needed? Or would that not necessarily gain me anything (pun intended)?

Microphones
 

Hi Tim

I wouldn't suggest buying a mic for what you need in one project. You should buy based on what you need in general.

Generally speaking: Shotgun mics are for outdoor use. All other condensers are best for inside, or wherever there is NO WIND. Shotguns are designed to reject side noise, that's what those little slits on the side are for. Inside those interact badly with the reflection of the walls and give you less than stellar results. So if you think you will be recording people inside normally, I suggest a nice "Hypercardioid" type mic. In reality you will need both kinds of mics to cover any situation, and throw in a wireless unit too for your basic trinity of audio coverage.

Thinking in terms of budget I suggest Rode mics for a good bang/buck ratio. I own a Rode NTG-2 Shotgun for outdoor use (which I rarely ever do) and the Rode NT3 Hyper for indoor. The NT3 sounds better, and for nature I would try to use that if there was no wind. You will also need (for shotgun mics) a "dead cat" fuzzy. It's a furry cover that goes over the black foam slip that usually comes with most mics. This will cut moderate wind. Both mics work great for dialog on a boom pole (if video is your game). A pair of NT3s work well for capturing a band live. But don't discount the Zoom's built in mics. They aren't the greatist, but they may work for a little background bird action.

Outside: You have to listen to what is REALLY going on, rather than what you focus on, like the pretty birds. What you usually ignore (with your ears) is the trucks driving buy in the distance, the dryer vent from your house, the constant breeze. All these will be amplified in your recording. The best thing you can do is get as close to the source as possible so the birds are louder than the rest of the area. Next you can gut out much low rumble noise in post with some simple EQ, as birds only use the high frequency you don't need it.

So first: Test record with your Zoom. Use Headphones probably turned up all the way, and your gain set to high. Forget about the surround BS, just use the stereo on the H2, and aim it at the birds, or better yet climb up there and leave it running for a while. The birds will come back and make noise eventually if you leave the yard.

2nd: Shotgun. The NTG-2 has a battery, and can record without 48v phantom, though things are better if you do as there is less noise. Personally I would use a mixer to bump up the mic volume, and allowing you to record quieter on your H2, and achieve less noise. I use the Sound Devices MixPre, but that's $665.00

3rd: Get a Rode NT3 as close to the birds as possible. That mic also takes a battery (9v) and with an xlr/mini st you can get into your zoom. Make sure your adaptor goes to mini STEREO so your signal goes to both channels rather than just left or right.

4th: Just find some nice bird recordings from a library. Chances are they sound better, and will work for your project.

Remember: Buy for what you need in general. YOu want something you can use for years. For me to give you any more info I need a full rundown of what your audio needs are.

Take care

Chadfish.

Chad,

Well, I tried your advice and am generally pleased with the first effort. Instead of birds, I walked up to one of the ponds here and recorded some "peepers".

Spring Peeper Frog Printout- Enchanted Learning Software

Just set the Zoom to 120 degree coverage at max gain and turned the headphones up as you suggested.

As there's a stream close to the pond I picked up that sound as well but I think the water part of the file only muddies the frog sounds and one can't really distinguish it as being running water.

But in general, considering this is a first quick test, I'm encouraged enough to keep experimenting and learning. Here's a short clip which I just added a fade in/out and normalized in Soundbooth:

http://byz.com/sound/peeper.wav (4MB file)

Tim

The file you attached seems to be blank. I can't hear any sound. I may be mistaken, but check the file yourself to make sure.

As far as hearing the stream, yes, sounds you don't notice as much with your ears get amplified on recordings. The brain amazingly focuses on what we want to hear while turning down what we don't. Just yesterday my girlfriend told me to take out the trash, and somehow I didn't even hear it!

Keep practicing. Always use headphones.

Chad

Hmmm... it does take awhile to download as it's just a .wav file, but it comes up in QuickTime for me. At least in IE the screen seems to do nothing for a few minutes-- depending on your d/l speed I'm sure, then finally pops up. Not that it's anything worth waiting for!

I bought this Sony MDR-7506 headphone unit after reading favorable reviews here. I expect one could spend a lot more but I'm quite satisfied for my purposes.

Tim

Hi Tim

I downloaded the .wav and I heard nothing. Not sure why...

I too have Sony 7506 headphones - 2 pair. They are great, accurate, and an industry standard. Many more expensive headphones are hyped for a nicer listening experience, but that's not necessarily what you want when monitoring a recording. You want to hear exactly what you are recording, not something with the bass bumped up.

Take care

Chad

{{{{EDIT}}}}

I just tried again, and did hear the birds. Not too bad of a recording! I heard dome low rumble, that can easily be EQed out. And if you were using this as a bed to talk over I think it will be fine. When you turn it down all you hear is the birds. You could do better with better mics etc., but then you have to ask what the final purpose is for this recording. If it's worth the money, and you plan on using the new mic for other purposes too - then go for it!

Hi Chad,

Glad you were able to download. Couple of clarifications...

Perhaps you missed the earlier post where I mentioned I recorded peepers instead of birds for the test? Peepers = small but noisy frogs. And perhaps what you heard as rumble was the nearby stream which didn't go very well with the amphibian chorus. [g]

I expect I'll be back with additional questions when I do some more testing! Thanks much for your input.

Tim

You did mention peepers, but I wouldn't know that peepers aren't birds. They sounded like birds to me! Here we just call them frogs, and they sound like frogs. Either way, your test seemed to work. And there was a slight wind rumble here and there, which can be overcome with a little wind muff. But also since that rumble is low, and the birds/frogs are in a high register, you can EQ out any low sounds without affecting the sound your after.

If you don't get a wind muff, just try for a windless day, and you should get some great recordings.

Chad

For the purposes of background ambience isn't there anyone who would try to capture the sounds in stereo? I was under the impression that it would allow the foreground voice to stand out more? It would mean you couldn't use the parabolic devices, you would simly have to get your mics into a good spot and get yourself as far away as your cables would let you before recording. I expect you wouldn't get big levels, but that isn't the point is it?

Jon

As the correct line-up of a mic. on a parabolic reflector is level with the face, I have seen people clip an MKH 30 fig-8 mic. to the main mic. and do MS stereo with a reflector.

If it's just for ambience an MS pair in a Rycote will work well and you can probably use a cardioid or super-cardioid for the mid.

I have an MKH 30/40 rig in a Rycote stereo windshield.

Check out the parabolics by Telinga out of Sweden. I have one and they are great bang for the buck when compared to lil ears etc

Do we really need to go parabolic to get some birds recorded?

You can stand semi-near a tree with a decent mic and get background "nat sound" as we say in the biz, of bird tweets. And doesn't a parabolic sacrifice fidelity in order to have further reach? It just seems a tad extreme to achieve what the guy wants. He already got a decent recording with a Zoom H2.

If the recording hasn't been made by now I feel that this is more about playing with gear and techie "what if" scenarios than getting the job done. It's a simple bird background bed. Do it and let's move on to the content.

Just keepin' it real here...

Chadfish

Check this out: CRYSTAL PARTNERS "BIG EARS" PARABOLIC MIC REFLECTOR - eBay (item 330335305917 end time Jul-03-09 11:16:45 PDT)

If one was to go down the route of an M-S set up is there a windshield other than the Rycote which can accommodate 2 mics? I have been looking long and hard but all blimps seem to be single microphone only, except the Rycote, and that is hideously expensive. Jon

If it's MS with a single mic. (EG: MKH 418-S or Neumann RSM 191) then these will fit into a mono windshield - - and in the case of the 418-S even into an S-series.

If it's piggy-backed MS (EG: MKH 30/40, 30/50 or 30/60) then you really need a Rycote stereo basket (I have one for my 30/40 kit).

If you use remote capsule heads (EG: Schoeps or Neumann), then the Rycote Stereo Ball Gag will do the job.

I hope this helps.

Hi John, I have the AKG blueline series CK91/94 MS combination, they can be fitted with extension cables so the ball gag would be OK. However, its 170 quid for the extension cables, so even though I have one already I don't think I will save much by going down that route, though I suppose I wouldn't have to use the connbox... Rycote is the only option, is that confirmed? Cheers, Jon.

The new Audio Technica BP4025 sounds very nice!

Listen: http://idisk.mac.com/tyreeford-Public/ambi08.wav

Regards,

Ty Ford

I've just purchased a Sennheiser ME66/K6 combo and Edirol R09HR recorder for doing the same type of thing...I'll let you know what it's like when I've tested it.

Go to a pet store or a zoo with a walk in aviary. You can get within a foot of all kinds of birds that way.

Or get some bird control netting (dirt cheap) and set up a tent trap. Then you can poke the suckers with the mic to get some sound out of them.

Tried my R09HR/ME66 combo last night and it is very sensitive and records very well indeed. Although the birdsong was recorded very clear it also picked up traffic noise from a motorway nearly a mile away so I will retest over the weekend in a nature reserve. It was quite windy yesterday and the velour windshield didn't work too well so I've ordered a Rycote Softie to use instead. The recorder itself is great and with an even more directional mic it would be exceptional. There is also a bass roll off switch on the ME66 which I didn't have switched on last night, but it will be next time I test.

Dave,

The ME66 is a "student-grade" mic. I'm sure you'll get something with it, but were you to rent a Schoeps CMIT or Neumann RSM 191 against which to compare it, you would be pleasantly surprised.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Thanks Ty...as I'm only just learning about video and audio it looks like I made the right choice :) I don't expect to be making any blockbusters in this life...but if I ever win the lottery I'll bear the above in mind.

While Schoeps are in the stratosphere pricewise, you don't need to win the lotto to rent one for a project. I second Ty's suggestion, if only so you have the experience of working with one to establish a baseline for comparison as you select tools for your personal kit.

to add to Steve's thought.

About 10 years ago, the US distributor for Schoeps sent me a demo model of the cmc641, a mic used on boom and in music recording.

I plugged it it, put on some phones, and said, Test, test, test."

At that moment, my 30 years of professional audio experience changed.

My comment was, "FxxK! That's what a mic is supposed to sound like!"

Granted, I may have "special hearing", but if so, I'm not alone.

rent, get a pair of Sony MDR7506 headphones and hear for yourself.

There is a real reason the mic costs what it does and it is expected to go up in price again this year because of the bad US dollar.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Man that does look like a sweet mic. Some day....