Anyone using...
 

Wondered if anyone here had used a wireless rig from their mixer to the camera? Weird setup in a way...but I needed something to get me from my multiple inputs to a camera, but couldn't use cables. I needed stereo, so tried my super el-cheapo AT VHF wireless system. It was only a 20 foot distance, but found something amazing....my cheapo wireless units sounded a little better than my very expensive AT and Lectrosonics system. A quick call to AT confirmed why. These super cheap wireless systems have no companding in them. Surprised me! So...I'm gonna use these more often. I bought them as backups, and keep them for the friends that are always borrowing gear. I wouldn't trust them over much more than 30 feet or in a high noise area, but in this case, they saved my butt.
Anyway, wondered if anyone else has tried this?

I do it all the time. I only have a couple of Sennheiser UW100 setups but they work pretty darned well.

Theatre folks get real grouchy when I want to run cables all over the place. So I typically use a Shure 267 with a couple of PZM on the sides and a Shure SM81 in the front center of the stage at floor level, run those to the 267 and use a plug-on transmitter on an 18" XLR cable to give me a bit of antenna.

I haven't tried the stereo bit but it might be fun since I have 2 267 mixers.

I tried this with my FP32 but it wants to 'motor-boat' which I guess is from RF leaking back up the cable from the transmitter.

DSE... since you mention a high-value use of a low-cost product I'm intrigued. Do you mind quoting the actual model of cheap AT wireless w/o the companding?

That would be great to know 'cause I've been on a crusade against cheap wireless and I'd rather have a cheap product to try out (and recommend) rather then simply dismissing any thing under a few hundred dollars.

I had one of those Azden units that's around a hundred bucks and I gave it to one of my video buddies so he could pull his hair out... and I could keep mine.

The model is the Pro88. sells for under 200.00 with a choice of omni or cardiod lav.
I was pleasantly surprised at what results I ended up with.

Alright DSE, you got my attention. Did you use two units, one for each channel? Or does that AT pass a stereo signal? That is what I was looking for, a way to get stereo from A to B without wire.

Two units, industrial Velcro to hold them together one one shoe, and two transmitters. Unfortunately, you can only run two together, because they don't have a wide variety of freqs.
Kinda surprising, isn't it? We just played with them tonight again, for a shoot we're doing. We don't have a stereo wireless rig either. It's either use rack mounted 7000 series, which we have a dozen of, or play with these to find out more about their limitations. So far, only distance seems to be bugging them. Keep in mind, I'm in Utah, away from BIG city RF noise. But in lurking around yesterday and today, I heard a rumor that there have been films (big name films) that have used these, and they just toss em' when they're done.

Re: Anyone using...
 

<<<-- Originally posted by Douglas Spotted Eagle : Wondered if anyone here had used a wireless rig from their mixer to the camera? Weird setup in a way...but I needed something to get me from my multiple inputs to a camera, but couldn't use cables. I needed stereo, so tried my super el-cheapo AT VHF wireless system. It was only a 20 foot distance, but found something amazing....my cheapo wireless units sounded a little better than my very expensive AT and Lectrosonics system. A quick call to AT confirmed why. These super cheap wireless systems have no companding in them. Surprised me! So...I'm gonna use these more often. -->>>

If you didn't have an audio mixer in the equation, would the AT VHS wireless system still be better at short distances than your high end set-up?

Wait a minute, Your sound feeding into the mixer was very stable, since nothing is moving you increase the likelihood of not having interference. Don't know how well your idea would work in LA but it's a very clever solution.

I have several mics feeding the mixer. 18 to be straight. Needed to feed them to the cam for sync. the audio won't need to be remixed later. I couldn't run cables from the console to the cam, but you normally can't do this well with wireless, because wirelesses have companders in them. That plays hell with music. But...surprise surprise, it worked, and worked well.

Did you have a back-up plan just in case?

That's scary stuff.

I have used a wireless link from a mixer to the camera several times. I have an A-T U100 series UHF system with a plug-on transmitter (often called an Ice Cube or butt plug). This transmitter is a small box with an XLR connector at its base. You see these most often in ENG applications for the Talant's handheld stick mic (reporting the big blizzard coming, etc.)

I ran a mic cable from the mixer to the Plug-on Transmitter. Monted the transmitter to a mic stand with Gaffer tape and rasied the stand as high as it could go to get the transmittter up in the air. With the receiver on my camera, I sent its output to channel 1 and the camera mounted shotgun mic to channel 2 (ambiance).

It worked well and alowed for maximum mobility.

I have also used this rig for other applications: Once I needed to send audio cues to synchronise a big fireworks display to music. Problem was, a four lane highway (with traffic) came between me and the fireworks location. This rig solved the problem and by using a very directional antenna on the receiver, I could extend the range of the wireless.

I always carry my plug on TX just in case.

PS. you could use a bdy pack Transmitter with the appropriate adpater cable (I know A-T makes an XLR female to the four pin HRS connector on their body packs and assume the other big wireless guys do as well.)

Steve,
I have seriously contemplated something similar.
Run two mics to a mixer, have two plug-in TX
out the mixer and two RX on camera to get a stereo recording.
My main concern is dropouts. Also, with this route
on a PD I'd have no way of getting any on-cam
audio. I need a 3-channel cam! I have thought
about using a minidisc or flash recorder
on cam to get that, but than you have to mix
in post, a hassle on a long shoot.

FYI: A link to the product
 

George:

I couldn't find it at BHPhoto but Safer Seas carries it.

$174 includes a mic.

http://www.saferseas.com/vsd/eye/wirelesspro88.html

Regards
-- Andre

Thanks Andre. A pair of those are cheaper than the lav I am looking at, BUT VHF vs UHF and I live at the outskirts of Atlanta. Not sure if I would be able to use it, especially during some football games (lights, radios, etc.) More freq research for the area. Glad I know some real hams... ;)

Sweetronics has the Pro88w for $112 + $13 2nd day shipping. DSE mentioned this product as a cheap wireless solution in another thread and listed them as a retailer. My uncle ordered one from them for the project were doing and we didn't have any problems (except that he put down his PO Box address which UPS doesn't ship do, but they emailed us right away and we got it straightened out).

http://store.yahoo.com/sweetronicsst...a-pro-88w.html

As for the Pro88 : We're using it for a falconry training video and I've been pleased with results we've gotten. We are out on Whidbey Island which is fairly rural since you have to take a ferry to get onto it on this end but in actuallity we're only maybe 30-40 miles from downtown Seattle.

Usually he's about 20 feet away and the sound has been good, out in the fields though while hunting the birds the sound started to break up when he was 40-50ft away and was totally cut out at around 80ft (I'm guestimating here).

At the shorter ranges we've occasionaly gotten some interference, is there a way the cable from the lav should be run to help minimize this? Right now we just have it going down in his shirt to his front jeans pocket.

Cheers,
Brian

Brian, how is that mic it comes with? Equipment Emporium has it for about $190 with the higher end mt830 lav.

From what I gather on other forums this unit is
only for those who absolutely can't afford any
better and are willing to put up with a lot
of dropouts. Twenty feet seems to be the
limit and even at that I've heard that if someone
gets in between the Tx and Rx you could get dropouts.
As a happy owner of the Samson Airline system,
I would recommend this as being far superior for
only $100 more.
You can get it with a plug-in Tx, which gives the same
distance (~80 feet) as the bodypack Tx.
And, it is UHF and much smaller than this AT system.

The microphone it came with is the ATR35 I don't know if there are any reviews of it out there but Googling would be worthwhile.

For the dialogue as he's working out the birds it has sounded good to me, but we are just watching it on a cheap small TV/VCR combo. But I don't have anything else to compare it to other then the on camera microphone. And let it be know that the audio portion of videography is my weak point!

We have experienced some interference noise and dropouts while close (around 20ft) but on our project we can replace audio with a voiceover if need be or redo shots so this isn't a huge deal for us. If you are capturing something live or where you need it to not screw up then I'd advise going to a better wireless system.

Cheers,
Brian

<<<-- Originally posted by Brian Huey :



Usually he's about 20 feet away and the sound has been good, out in the fields though while hunting the birds the sound started to break up when he was 40-50ft away and was totally cut out at around 80ft (I'm guestimating here).

Brian -->>>

For what it is worth, I've been able to receive clean sound on my Sennheiser UW100 when the Bride and Groom were so far down in a valley amongst the grape vines that they were very small in the viewfinder. Probably a quarter mile at least. I was above them on a balcony overlooking the valley so I was in the best possible position.

While the Samson is quite good, it also has a compander. That was the bigger point of my initial post. The Samson can indeed go farther, and there are many models of any brand that can go farther. But they are all companded, which has a detrimental effect on audio. For me, that's the bigger thing. If there is another unit out there without companding, I'm interested, but unaware of it.

What about the new digital units?

I surely dunno....Haven't tried any of the new digital ones yet.

What is a compander? What effect does it have on
the audio?
I recently noticed a whishhhhing sound with the
Samson Airline. Maybe was always there
but never noticed it before. Anyways, this
sound follows each word, on the tail end.
Anyone ever heard of this? Is this from the
compander?

I've heard that sound every once in a great while (meaning once a year or so) on the HI-FI tracks when I shoot in S-VHS. Fortunately the Linear tracks serve as a very capable back-up.

Dave, from the Yamaha Pro Audio Glossary:
Analog audio signal compression in this sense is not the same as digital signal data compression (as in, the MP3 codec is a compression scheme that makes audio files smaller). Rather, compression squeezes the dynamic range of a signal into a specified amplitude range, ensuring sounds are neither too loud nor too soft. All music you hear over FM radio has gone through compression at the radio station prior to broadcast, which explains in part why songs may sound so much different over the airwaves than they are piped from CDs.