Need mount advice for AKG Blueline mic
 

I am buying the AKG Blueline SE300B with hyper module to use mounted on my Sony FX1 for shooting in the studio. I will also occasionally use it boom mounted. The majority of my shooting is inside so I figure this is a better choice than a shotgun to start out building my audio kit.

I need advice on what mounts I should get for holding the mic on cam and also for mounting it to a boom pole.

Thanks!

Bill

Just wanted to say, excellent mic and a great value.

The Rycote Invision is a very good shockmount and is very reasonably priced. It's designed to mount directly to a boompole and you could mount it to the camera with a simple hotshoe adapter.

You might like this, it fits your shoe mount and also has the 3/8-inch thread for a boom pole. I use one on my Canon XHA1; I did replace the rubber bands with heavier O-rings (took them to the hardware store to match size, they're a standard, inexpensive item)
Rode | SM3 - On-Camera Shockmount for Shotgun Microphones | SM3

Battle Vaughan/miamiherald.com video team

Great replies guys. Thanks!

Bill

I like the PSC shockmount.

PSC | UCSM - Small Universal Camera Shockmount | FPSC0035D | B&H

One thing though, if you're in the studio, why are you using a camera mounted mic? I like that mic, but it needs to be close in. Can you put it on a mic stand with a boom arm maybe if you are doing interviews? You really should be within a foot and a half to get good sound with that mic. If the subject is moving and you don't have a sound person to boom it, maybe wireless? What's your application exactly?

Hopefully it is okay to disclose on the board. I produce adult content so I am usually shooting 2 performers (sometimes solo and sometimes multiple people) who are moving around quite a bit. I can put the mic on a boom over them but that creates certain difficulties in shooting up angles and also having to have a cable connected to the cam when I am shooting will be problematic.

Did I order the wrong mic? Getting it within a foot and a half will be very difficult given the movement of the performers . . .

I am definitely open to suggestions and solutions.

Thanks!

Bill

Crappy Sound = Mic Distance * Room Ambience

So, to get better clarity in your sound, you can either get the mic closer, or remove some of the room ambience and reflections.

In your particular situation, it seems to me you are pointing the mic at a very absorbtive surface...so you may get better results than usual in other situations, with a slightly more distant mic.

Just a guess.

-Mike

I would love to know more about setting up my sets for better audio. I shoot in two main areas of my studio.

The front portion of my studio is a 32' long by 26' wide and 10' tall room with two 10' long dividing walls. So basically I have 4 seperate sets that are each 16' wide and 10' deep and there is a 6' wide hallway running down the center. These sets are finished with sheetrock on the walls and pad/carpet on the floor. These sets are all furnished as a room in a home would be . . . couch and chair, beds, etc. I always shoot into the sets so I have the option of hanging something from the ceiling behind me if that would help. I can also attach anything to the ceiling in the hallway area if it would help.

The back portion of my studio is a large open room with no dividing walls. It is 26' wide and 32' long but this area is 12' tall. One side is set up to use fly walls of different types and has a hard wood surace when I dont have fly walls in there. The floor in this side of the room has carpet at times and concrete for some scenes as well. This area usually only has limited furnishings and they are generally hard wood items. The opposite side is under construction and will be a 30' x 15' green screen cyc. This area has a lot more hard surfaces to deal with and no walls in the middle.

Do you have any recommendations of what I can do to help set up my studio spaces with better audio in mind?

Thanks!

Bill

It's not the mic, that's just the physics of acoustics at work. Even the ~$2000 Schoeps will not perform well mounted on the camera. Nominal working distance for a hyper is around 18 inches, a short shotgun 24-30 inches or so.

Since you're in a studio enviroment, explore options to reduce the reflections - make sure walls aren't parallel, cover the sheetrock with absorbtive materials, etc. By deadening the set you might be able to use a short gun to get a little more working room.

Have you explored the idea of using plant mics hidden on the set? You could fasten a lav to a bed headboard, for example, and take advantage of the boundary effect.

Is it out of question to hire a sound person? The Blueline is perfect for your application, but it really ought to be boomed as close to the action as the camera will allow. This is most critical with dialog of course, but who knows, if you take the time to have good sound it might give an edge in a competitive market. God knows your competitors don't seem to give a damn.

Unfortunately a sound person is out of the question on some shoots. I will be able to use a boom operator on some scenes, but not all of them. It is the scenes without an assistant that I am looking to improve on. Audio is new to me, previously we were shooting all of our content with the onboard mic of our Sony FX1s. I now have a juicedlink and the new mic. I am also planning on getting the AT875r for outdoor scenes.

I shoot in a range of 2' - 15' from the talent. Is the blueline mic going to work out for me at all when it is mounted on the cam (at least better than the in cam Sony mic)?

Thanks!

Bill

The working distance is dependent on the type of mic but after the mic gets more than about 3 feet away from the talent, there is no mic of any type at any price that is going to produce decent results except under very unusual circumstances. Additionally, the angle of the mic with respect to the subject isn't optimal from the camera position as well - shooting horizontally like that position puts it means that any noise sources or reflections off of walls etc in back of the subject are right in the mic's most sensitive pickup zone. While almost anything is going to be an improvement over the camera's built-in mic, working from the camera position is almost never going to be very satisfactory. 2' to 3' you have a chance. At 4', maybe, if you have a quiet set and a lot of acoustic conditioning. But heading out to 6', 8', 10' or 15' - no way for ANY mic, not just the Blueline.

To hear the difference distance makes, visit the Schoeps showroom site - Schoeps Microphone Showroom - and click on the demo of spoken word recordings. The Mk41 is a hyper like the Blueline and you can hear it in a recording studio situation at several different distances out to 6 feet away from the speaker. You can definitely hear what increasing distance does. While it sounds really good even at 6 feet, it's in an ideal recording scenario, far better than what you're going to be working in. Listening to the various recordings will give you a good idea of how distance effects sound.

Well the new mic got here yesterday as well as the Rode SM3 mount. The juicedlink is sitting in its box here as well. As soon as I get a chance to figure out what settings to make on the camera and Juicedlink I will try some sample shoots to see how it does.

I have to figure out a mount for a boompole. Any low cost suggestions for this?

Thanks for all the advice so far.

Bill

Century stand and a Boom Boy
Trew Audio - Boompoles - Accessories - Remote Audio Boom Boy

Perfect Thank you! I guess I need to break down and buy a C stand, all I have are regular light stands and roll around Mole stands. Any recommended sources for the C stands?

Thanks!

Bill

Steve House's mention of hiding mikes on the set got me thinking ... since the actors have no place to hide a wireless, here"s a thought (I've never done this, so somebody correct me if this idea is crazy!)

How about hiding a number of very small mikes---Tram, Countryman, Beyerdynamic, Voice Technologies lavs come to mind...around the set where their tiny size would probably pass unnoticed. Say eight. Run them to a firewire mixer, such as the MOTU 896 Mk3, which is capable of outputting an 8-channel signal to a computer audio program. (I use Sony SoundForge, which accepts the signals as a multichannel .WAV file.)

Drop the file on your timeline, and pick the channel that has the best audio for a given time and place, minimizing or muting the ones that don't work as well at that point. Never done this particular application, but it just might work...you can output a zero-latency analog 2 channel mix from the MOTU to your camera for synch purposes... the multiple mikes give you a choice of tracks, you just pick the best one...comment? / Battle Vaughan/miamiherald.com video team

Forgot to mention -- the MOTU can slave to or from SEMPTE timecode and can take word clock in or out if you have a camera that can supply synch...I just use mine as a digital recorder, basically, but it has a lot of ability for it's size and price.../bv

Wouldn't know about Vegas but a source in LA that ships almost anywhere is Filmtools: Hollywood's source for grip, electrical, lighting, sound, video and film supplies

About the c-stand: Samy's Camera in LA or b&H, take a look: Century Stands | B&H Photo Video

/bvaughan

Hey William, to answer an earlier question of yours about treating your location: Start with the ceiling. You want to put some kind of material up there that will diffuse the sound. Deciding what's best to use is basically a question of cost, and worth its own thread really. I'd also put hooks in the ceiling so you can hang sound blankets and remove them as needed. They should be a foot out from the wall. Either buy sound blankets with grommets along the edges or get moving blankets and put the grommets on yourself. You really need to cover two perpendicular walls for them to do much good. If you do all that, you'll have better luck with a camera mounted shotgun, although it's still not recommended. It would be a good idea to do this regardless, actually, as you have described very reverberant locations.

For the distances you need, I'd consider going with the short shotgun module for the blueline. A little better reach than the hyper.
But the shotgun pattern will pick up reflections from 180 degrees behind the mic, so baffles behind the camera are important indoors.
Furniture pads are OK but eggcrate foam is better. Can you make up some 4' X 4' or 4' X 8' panels with the eggcrate foam to place over and behind the camera? Put the furniture pads on the hard floor surfaces.

The point of the hanging blankets is that they can be removed for the reversals and put on the other walls.

16 wide 10 deep..That is close enough to put you into the audible flanging range and if those walls are hard and parallel, to create flutter echos. You need to deaden as much as possible at least one of those parallel walls (curtains, wall hangings, etc), and either deaden or break up the flatness of the other wall (book case with books at random depths, pictures on wall, junk on wall).

Since the ceiling is out of shot, deaden as much as possible. These are small sets from an audio point of view.

Plant mics seem like a very good idea, as already mentioned.

15 feet is WAY to far away to mic unless you are in an anechoic chamber. ;-).

There are sites with good acoustic treatment info on the web - mostly geared for sound studios but all applicable to your situation.

Acoustic Treatment and Design for Recording Studios and Listening Rooms

Acoustics Forum • Index page

John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum • Index page

Type into google:

small home studio acoustics design

to get many more.

You don't need expensive products to do this...

It is possible to make acoustic treatment look like something else. For example I am buillding in wainscotting here that looks old fashioned. But it is actually a mix of thin panels to absorb low frequencies, and absorbtive panels to absorb highs and mids.

Acoustic 'clouds' can double as indirect ligting fixtures. 'Columns' can actually be hollow bass traps. You can't tell they are not solid on video...


-Mike