Mix Pre to HVX200 (LEVELS)
 

I got my mix pre in and did some tests with one boom for dialogue recording.
I turned on my mix pre's tone and set the HVX200 to -20. Alright ready to go.
I then recorded at different peaks on the mix pre, i started peaking at 0 and +4 (still in the green)
In my DAW, the waveform is half full.
I then did another where i turned up the mix pre all the way thus peaking all in the red,
In the DAW the waveform is full but with flat tops (i guess thats the limiter kicking in)

i know the mix pre is pretty much unclippable but what are the ideal peaks on the pre for dialogue recording-the odd red? peak at 0? how much should i go over?

thanks in advance

One suggestion... record to two tracks in the HVX, and set one at -20 and the other at -12. Use which ever one works best (in the case of dialogue that will nearly always be the -12 one in my experience.)

Thanks for the reply chris. That sounds like a great idea. Two questions please:

I'm setting the mix pre to record two channels (linked) and im using the HVX200's both channels. When referencing to -20, why am i having to turn the mix pre's pot all the way to get full scale?

If i reference to -12, how much room do i really have above that? and if i do reference the tone, you are saying set one to -12 and -20 and kind of choose whats best after?

Here is what I do. It's been a while since I used the MixPre so I am going on memory here for that setup. Adjust what I say to what you see in your manual.

Set it up for line out to your camera's right and left XLR outputs and set your camera up for line in signal. Cable the outputs to your camera inputs.

Turn on the tone oscillator and adjust the LED on mixer VU meter to 0db on each channel.
Leaving the oscillator on, at the camera adjust the inputs to that one channel reads -20 and set the other channel at -12. (If you are using two mics - Check at the mixer that the left channel is set to pan left and the right channel is set to pan right, NO mixing of the two channels allowed. If you are using a single input, set it to center channel.)

Once you have done this you initial set up is complete. I recommend using low pass filter. Low frequencies can play havoc on your meter readings.

Make sure you use 48v phantom for anything but a lav, and even then I tend to use 48V unless otherwise indicated.

Monitor sound at the camera.

(As I recall on the mix pre the spot between 12 o'clock and 2 o'clock seemed to be the best or "unity" area to my ears.)

Others more knowledgeable may be able to amplify or correct my method.... but it works for me. (and worked nicely on the MixPre into a HVX200 a year ago for a day as well).

A "Hot" signal will range between -4 and +2 at the mixer... I usually record a little lower than that on a split recording system as I have described.

an excellent and clear answer, i shall try that.

Alright..results

Setting tone to 0 on the mixpre and -20 on the HVX:
-the pot has on the mix pre has to go all the way up in order to reach 0db on the cam

Setting tone to 0 on the mixpre and -12 on the HVX:
-You dont have to turn the pot on the mix pre very much to get good level, but there is little room for error, not that you would clip but the limiter would be pinning pretty much all the time if you're not careful

my conclusion: as chris said to use two levels one set at -12 and the other at -20 then go for the best one, but for me i found sticking to -20 is best but of course with carefully placed mics and good technique

I am unclear... you are NOT trying to reach 0 on the CAM with the tone, just on the MixPre... the cam is -20 and -12 when the MixPRE is 0.... DO not attempt to set it at 0 on the cam.

Your second sentence suggests you get that, but your first one has me confused. Why do you care what the MixPre has to be set at to get tone to 0 on the cam, that is not your goal.

Make sure you are line out and line in as well. It should not be THAT sensitive.

sorry chris if my wording confused you. It is 0 db at the mix pre and -20 at the camera, line out from mix pre and then line in on both channels on camera. Both channels set to the same input. Im just saying that referencing to -20 on camera, the mix pre's pot has to be turned up pretty far to get close to 0 on the camera.

Set the pot to the 2 o'clock position and do some recording and see where your levels run.... listen tothe result and see how it sounds... then pull it onto your NLE time line and play with the audio there and see how you like it.

I will try that and check back. thanks

Ideally, where do we want the peaks for dialogue on the camera to be. Does it necessarily have to be close to 0 to maximize signal to noise ratio?

My reply is no. When you start going past unity you start boosting the noise floor along with the signal. Personally I am willing to accept a little less hot signal and play with it in post rather than cranking up the gain in the mixer. Others, smarter and more knowledgeable are invited to add their comments on this.

ok, i tried the 2 o'clock position, the audio is pretty clean, the waveform in my DAW is half way full. This was referenced at -20 on the cam and 0 on the mix pre. I spoke at an average level then did some yelling, both ends sound pretty good. My only concern is that what if i wanted to turn up the gain in my DAW, some noise would be brought up as well. I suppose i can apply some noise reduction, but my understanding is to try to minimize post effects with 16 bit recording, right?

I find that with a weaker mic signal I usually end up using the -12 track, not the -20 track.

im using the senn 416 48vphantom, ALC is off in the camera.

Did you set it up to center and then record it on one channel in the camera as -20 and in the other at -12 ?

no i didnt, i just went with -20

On the mix pre, the boom is fed to ch.1, phantom is on and 80khz roll off is also on. The linked feature is on.

On the Mix pre's outputs are two xlr wires fed into the camera's line inputs. On the HVX200'S menu i have one channel set to input 1 and the other to input two.

Assuming that linked means the single input is fed to both outputs, try setting one of your cameras gain controls to produce -20 on the osc tone and the other to read -12. Repeat your test and see if you don't like the -12 channel. In interview dialogue the -12 is usually fine. In a less controlled setting the -20 is insurance for loud noises. I know the limiters will prevent clipping but the end result is better when there is no compression or limiting, so the -20 can be a lifesaver.

im gonna be doing this for some short films, my understanding is that -20 is the standard for that. Im also keen on this level in order to give me some headroom to work with, say when an actor has a quiet line then suddenly yells.

Cool... still. if it is single mic, why not give yourself some latitude, and record it -20 on one track and -12 on another?

I guess its because from my tests doing -12 and -20 at seperate times, i found -20 more suitable. I never did both at the same time. I guess it might cause confusion from the sound editing point of view, just the mentality of pick one and go with it.

when i did the tests at -12, i found that most of the waveform had flat tops and the effect of limiting was constantly there, just not much room to work with.

But with -20, i did one final test, it was more at the 3 o'clock position instead of 2. I got some nice waveforms out of it but of course mic placement and getting away from the fridge helped a lot. In post, i applied subtle noise reduction, compression, deessing and then a limiter on the master. I played it back on my 52 inch HD with all the sound enhancment off, it sounds really clean, im finally happy.

I love your suggestion, i just found one level more simple, i guess we go with what works.
But of course thanks for all your help

That answers my question and if you are happy, I'm happy. Your position makes a lot of sense. Happy recording. Glad I was of some assistance.

Hey chris, i did this with a boom directly into the camera, i got the mix pre as you know for the better preamps but for on camera dialogue, i think this actually was good
YouTube - Mr. Big gets Jacked

Your edits and cut points were nicely done. I liked the piece and you are right for a single mic, that wasn't at all bad.

There was a little room echo, but you will get that using a shotgun or even an omni in a room setting. In a highly reflective room you will probably get it with ANY boomed mic.

Start thinking about lavs in the kind of setting you had. You will find that Sound calls for varying approaches... no one note samba works in all cases here.

I really liked the piece. You have talent. The sound was more than just acceptable...maybe as good as you can get using a boomed mic in that situation, but as you will find, you will and can do better.

Again I really enjoyed the piece. Nicely shot and edited and acted. Thanks for sharing it.

your input is very encouraging chris. The 416 was used in that piece. Im also thinking of using two mics next time, one hidden lav to one channel and the boom to the other. I purchased the sony ecm-88b and im probably gonna invest in the transmitter for it.
I also just wanted to know how good ADR really is and i found it amazing. I always wondered how in movies how sound is up close and personal so i wanted to see if i can duplicate it

i suppose it all depends on budget and time and proper acoustics. I did a an ADR test with the 416 in my living room then did some sound surgery in post, i was amazed how crisp it sounded. Im thinking in investing in this portabooth i seen advertised or maybe building a sound studio in one of my rooms downstairs. As you know sound is half the story and im willing to invest as much as i can to get the best sound.