Company wants to Spend Money but I don't know what to BUY!
 

Hello All,

Okay, in all of my confusion about this topic I’ve decided to turn to y’all to help me out if you would please.

Here’s my situation – at work we have a bunch of Power Point presentations that we are turning into videos (we just bought Wondershare PPT2DVD software to convert) and we need to add audio.

We have a Sony HDR-HC9.

We’d like to add some wireless lavalier microphones to do this.

Will someone please give me some suggestions on how to do this and what I need to buy in order to use our video camera to record the audio and then I can edit the project in Adobe Premiere.

Thank you,

Andy

Why don't you use an audio recorder to record audio? Easier, cheaper, higher quality...

Thanks Anthony for offering to help.

If you were in my situation what would you purchase for this situation?

Andy

Hi Andy,

I think there are a couple of questions that need to be answered before we can give a good response.

1. Where will you be doing the audio recording. Will the person just be sitting reading lines?

2. What is the expected quality of the recording?

3. Will there be more than one person speaking at a time?

4. Most importantly, what is your budget?

The cheapest way might be to pick up a decent field recorder such as a Sony PCM D50 or you could get a USB mic and plug it directly into your computer. Or on the other end you could get a really good mic, mic preamp, and an Analog to Digital converter and record that way. I would use your Sony camera as a last resort for audio recording. I believe it records compressed audio so you'll be limited in how much post you can do to the sound.

Garrett

The simplest way is a pocket recorder, such as Garrett mentioned: Sony D50, or similar with high quality built-in microphone, maybe Olympus LS-11, LS-10, Edirol R09HR.
Take this recorder, as if it is a P+S camera. Record sound clips (snap shots), and paste the clips to the timeline.

Don't hand held the recorder to prevent handling noise. Set it on a stand or tripod.

Always wear a headphone to listen the sound you capture. Oh, one more thing: Choose WAV format, 24 bits, 48KHz or 96KHz. Don't use MP3 format. Make sure the recording level is good, peak at -6dBfs or lower, but no lower than -12dBfs. Activate limiter if you're not confident.

1. Most likely in an office with the door closed and yes they will just be reading lines.

2. We want fairly high quality but not Hollywood studio material.

3. For this project no.

4. No more than 1,500.00 dollars or so.

Your mention of a "good mic, mic preamp, and an Analog to Digital converter," peaks my interest. What suggestions do you have for those items and can I fit them within my budget?

Thanks Garrett for your help,

Andy

Okay Anthony I'm starting to see where you are going with this and I see the ease with which I can record and edit the voice overs for the Power Point stuff.

But, one more thing, is that at some point this year we are going to record video and audio at the same time. Will this set up be okay to record instuctors teaching a lesson or will I need to go with the lavalier mics for that?

Thanks again,

Andy

Stay away from a wireless unit.

I would record direct to camera and use a under camera Beachtek unit, a good wired lavalier, 25 ft of XLR cable and a set of over the ear headphones.

Beachtek | DXA-2S - Dual XLR Universal Microphone | DXA-2S | B&H

Sony | ECM-44B - Omni-Directional Lavalier Mic | ECM44B | B&H

Sennheiser | HD 280 Pro - Circumaural Closed-Back | HD 280PRO

Why record to the video camera (or an external recorder) at all and why on earth use a wireless lav to do it, regardless of what you record to? Record directly into the computer you're editing on rather than going through the added step of an external recording device and then importing it. Premiere can record directly through your audio interface, if you have the Production Suite and would rather you could use Audition or Soundbooth to record, or you can use a program like the freeware audio editor Audacity if you prefer. Either way recording to the camera adds an unnecessary step AND means you are going to be recording through the very questionable quality consumer camera's audio circuitry.

As for a microphone, the only time you should use wireless is when the talent has to be moving around unencumbered - for a project like this, a decent VO mic on a stand or, if you want to use a lav, a hard-wired lav will give you much better results. There's an old Hollywood adage that says "Always use a cable whenever you are able" and it's sound advice to follow. A hardwired lav is also cheaper by a long shot - you can get a good quality, professional mic like a Tram or Countryman for a few hundred USD while a decent pro entry-level wireless rig is going to run well over $500 and still not give you as good a sound.

You said you're going to be editing on Premiere - what are the sound capabilities of the computer you plan to edit on? Desktop or laptop? Does it have an external audio interface or will you be using its internal sound card? How are you going to monitor the sound while you edit?

If there's a more than a minimal amount of material to record, you might want to consider hiring a professional VO talent to do it for you. Most will have their own recording setup and are used to working and taking direction remotely so you wouldn't have to purchase any gear at all. They would record using professional quality gear while you direct over the phone or via Skype, etc, and email the files to you after the session. Delivering a script convincingly is nowhere near as easy as it looks and you'll probably end up with a better product cheaper and faster than trying to use an amatuer from your company as your voice talent.

Steve,

Wouldn't that make it difficult to sync up the video to the voice (unless it is a voice over)?

He's converting Powerpoint slides directly to video clips in the computer and then editing and sequencing the resulting clips in Premiere so I'm going on the assumption that all of the audio to be added is voice-over narration and perhaps music without any actual lipsync live action shots.

I'd get a USB or Firewire audio card, and a large diaphragm cardiod mic and a pop screen. Many of the audio cards ship with the light version of a pro audio app, which will be more than enough for your needs.

Take a look at the Rode NT1-A mic. It has very low noise and a pleasant sound. I prefer to position such a mic above the talent, about 8 to 12 inches from the forehead, angled down toward the mouth. If the sound is too nasal, try it from below, near the chest.

For soundcards, M-Audio and Echo make some reasonably priced products. These models have two XLR inputs with phantom power and record 24-bit audio. I don't own these, but have owned other soundcards from these companies. They're not boutique, but they will get the job done well enough. They all work with Mac or PC.

Echo Digital Audio Corporation
M-AUDIO - ProFire 610 - High-Definition 6-in/10-out FireWire Audio Interface with Octane Preamp Technology
M-AUDIO - Fast Track Pro - 4 x 4 Mobile USB Audio/MIDI Interface with Preamps
M-AUDIO - Fast Track Pro - 4 x 4 Mobile USB Audio/MIDI Interface with Preamps

Personally, I prefer Firewire to USB for audio, but USB might be more practical.

Speaking of practical, here are some tips:

In an office environment, use the largest room with the fewest reflective surfaces available. Don't put a mic stand on a table. It reflects. Use a proper stand (away from the table) and record standing up, so the talent won't compress their diaphragm.

Turn off the HVAC if at all possible. It's amazing how loud HVAC can be.

Use a laptop or low-fan-noise desktop and move it far from the mic. Out of the room is best. That's one nice thing about a portable recorder - no fan noise. Also, it's best to record to a fairly clean, defragged hard drive. Hopefully, the PC is fairly fast and not loaded with junkware. An old, slow machine can record multiple tracks of audio if it's well optimized, but antivirus stuff and junkware can trash the fastest machine.

Best of luck with the project!

I would agree with Steve's recommendation to record directly to the computer rather than going through a field recorder. There are a number of decent lower cost A/D boxes out there by M-Audio, Digidesign, Edirol to name a few (not in any particular order). I have an Edirol FA-101 that gives very good (not great) quality, records in 24 bit up to 192khz and provides power to the XLR's. It interfaces with my computer via Firewire.

As for mics I'm not sure why you would want to use a lav of any kind, wired or wireless, in this situation. I can't imagine that the person would be moving around so I'd go with a mic on a stand. There is a very good discussion here for VO mics:

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/all-thin...ce-needed.html

A setup like this should be well under your budget and would even allow for you to purchase some audio software. I'm not a Premier user so I'm not sure how that would work out to record audio with but I've used Sony Vegas (which started out as an audio software) to do VO and audio recordings before.

Garrett

Also, a very good cheap sound booth is a medium sized car parked inside your garage at home. With the doors closed it give a very pleasing sound and insulates from outside noises. You can usally run the wire from your recording mixer or A/D out through the backseat leading to the trunk and then into a laptop or desktop setup outside your car.

Sounds like a strange idea but it actually works out nicely.

Garrett

Recording to the computer will work except this limits Andy to only recording voice overs at the computers location where recording to the camera he can do both (and the set up is easier).

If you decide to go the route of recording to your PC (or is it a Mac???) I would think in terms of getting an XLR to USB interface like the Centrance Mic Port Pro and a reasonably good XLR mic in preference to getting a USB mic. I think you have a lot more choices of better microphones this way. I use a Rode NT2-A for the little VO or spoken audio that I do and I've been happy with it so far. There are better mics out there, but this has worked OK for me.

The sky's the limit in so far as what you can spend on mics and audio interfaces, but I'm satisfied with what I have - for what I do.

I'd think in terms of using a reasonably priced XLR - USB interface like the Mic Port because you can spend more of your budget for a mic this way, and I think the mic is probably the best place to put equipment money - the higher end interfaces can come later, maybe for your next project.

I think in order of importance the things to think about are

1) Talent

2) Environment (room, mic placement etc)

3) Mic

4) Everything else

By the way - will the presenter be male or female? It can influence both mic choice and placement. A mic that sounds great (ie gives the kind of result you're after) for a guy may not sound so great for a girl.

Take a look/listen at As I Hear It - Choosing the Right Microphone

Laptops are portable. Not as portable as a field recorder, but not fixed, like a desktop.

If you're going a distance away from your main desktop computer, why bother with a laptop and peripherals? A small field recorder with a decent mic-pre would suffice.
- If your going to be recording mostly a single speaker, record in a mono mode The Marantz portables can do this this, most other portables do not.
- 44.1/16bit is more than sufficient for spoken word... though 24bit is better if you record with ridiculous amounts of headroom.

A quiet room is essential. Unfortunately, many office buildings I've been in, the HVAC can not be shut down in a single room or even floor.
That said, conference rooms can be good if they are carpeted and have plush furniture. Just through a moving blanket on the table.

My .02 cents.

Jim, have you had much luck with USB audio interfaces? Everyone I've tried has not been robust enough for multichannel recording. Even thought in theory there should be more bandwidth with USB2 vs. Firewire 400 it just seems that the FW devices work better.

I have to admit that I usually record to an SD 702 or through a F/W interface for multi channel - I was thinking specifically of the little MicPort Pro USB interface in terms of being a nice portable way of attaching a good mic to something like a MacBook or Windows laptop if the OP wanted to spend more of the equipment budget on a higher grade mic and less on recorder etc.

Ok. I was just wondering something had changed recently with USB devices. I agree that it would be better to put more toward a better mic than spend more on the interface.

I don't have any experience with the MicPort. I do have an inexpensive Alesis FW mixer that I use to record with sometimes with some Rode mics. It does a pretty decent job of taking 8 channels in and allowing me to record to my laptop.

Garrett

The mic port is a pretty simple little gadget about an inch in diameter and a few inches long - it has XLR on one side and USB on the other and attaches one mic to the USB port. It provides phantom power and all in all I think it's a better idea than buying a USB mic because it gives greater choice of better mics.

Wow Jim. I just looked it up. Looks like a pretty cool little device especially if you already have a good quality mic.

Garrett

Start with something compact, easy and nice: Sony M10, Olympus LS11, Edirol R09HR. I didn't got any of these in my hands yet, but according to my experience with their predecessors: Sony D50, Olympus LS10, and Edirol R09, I believe any one of these few could be your stepping stone.

All these recorders provide "plug-in power" for electret microphones (lavalier is one of the most common version.), and you can use the recorder as if it is a "wireless belt pack" except it don't transmit to somewhere and record. It just record on the talent.

PC based system (USB mic, Audio interfaces...) is like to use a scanner to capture image. Pocket recorder is like P+S camera that is so easy to capture image almost anywhere at anytime.

There're always audio rules to follow, avoid handling noise especially with pocket recorder since you need to operate the device, and it is a vibration sensitive device as well. Better leave it on a stand, or shock proof foam on the table... Always listen, at least at the very beginning of each recording.

Stop the bus!
 

While all the advice so far is good, I don't think that ANY of it comprehends your original stated production flow, particularly using the Wondershare PPT2DVD software to convert PPT into MPEG2 for writing to DVDs.

Start by working with the software and discover how they want you to add the narration to the disc. Do they want something recorded and synced with the PPT? Do they want audio clips included with the PPT? I tried poking around their website and didn't see anything that mentioned adding audio.

DO NOT BUY ANYTHING until you figure out how your PPT2DVD software is designed to use audio. In any case, it appears that you will either need to record ON a computer or import audio files INTO the computer since you want the tracks as "voice-over" for the computer-based content (PPT slides).

If you are recording directly to the computer, you solution could be as simple and inexpensive as this (refurb) Audio-Technica ATR-35. $12.
Audio-Technica ATR-35 Omnidirectional Condenser Lavalier Microphone (FACTORY REFURBISHED) |BuyDig.com

NEVER use a wireless microphone when a wired microphone will work. This is a UNIVERSAL rule and is applicable in ALL cases. Now if you can afford only one microphone and you frequently have shots where you must use wireless, then so be it. But your stated parameters appear to be nothing like that case.

Now, it might be the case that it would make sense to record the narration on your camcorder. Aim the camera at the computer screen so you have a "scratch" (unused in the final production) record of which narration goes with which slide).

If you also anticipate making live-action videos, then you would need an audio interface to your camcorder (such as the suggested BeachTek or equivalent) and microphone(s) and cables, etc. If you want useful specific advice in this area, it would be good to give us a little better idea of what you anticipate shooting.

If you anticipate doing a lot of recording voice-overs for videos (whether live-action or PPT) then something like an Audio-Technica AT2020USB is a quite respectable microphone even for recording professional voice talent, and it plugs right into the computer USB. ($150)
Audio-Technica - Products - Microphones by Series - 20 Series - AT2020 USB

I would get an articulated desk arm (like K&M 23850) to hold the microphone in the right place vs. that little toy "tripod" that the AT2020USB comes with. ($140)
K&M | 23850 Broadcast Microphone Desk Arm and | 23850-300-55

The AT2020 is a good option. One limitation is the length of a USB cable, unless you daisy chain through some USB hubs. If you use a USB/Firewire interface, you can use a 25-foot or longer XLR cable between it and the mic.

One nice thing about a PC solution is that you can record stand alone wave files (like on a portable recorder), but you can also record directly into whatever app you are using. That gives you the most flexibility in how you get the audio into your target tools.

The portable recorder and external mic gives you the most flexibility in where you record. Setup will be fast and easy, and you'll have no PC fan to deal with.

For a recorder with XLR inputs at a reasonable price, look at the Zoom H4n, and recorders from Tascam and Marantz. If you have access to a recorder with a 1/8" mic input, but no XLR inputs or phantom power, you can add a juicedLink preamp to give you XLRs/phantom and boost the signal cleanly. Personally, I own the M-Audio Microtrack II, which has terrible preamps, and the juicedLink transforms the Microtrack II into a viable recorder. But considering the fixed battery and lack of built-in mic, I don't recommend the Microtrack.

In any case, use an external mic for this project. Internal mics are fine for general stuff and recording lectures for later review, but for good voice recordings, use a large cardioid mic or a dynamic mic designed for voice overs (not a stage mic).

I have had excellent results with using the camera as a field recorder then splitting the audio off of the video in edit (this was when I just started shooting video).

I then moved to a M-Audio Microtrack II and hd battery issues as well, now I use a Fostex FR2-LE field recorder to record voice narrations and audio.

Good point re backing up to the original objective.

The PPT2DVD page says that it will produce DVD or video file (AVI/MOV) so IF it works as advertised, producing a video file would then allow doing a VO in the conventional way.

Power Point itself will allow sound capture with a slide or if you insert an existing clip it has the ability to automatically play the audio when the page is displayed. PowerPoint also has the ability to produce a CD with slides and audio as well as a viewer if the presentation is intended to be played on a computer rather than a DVD player. However, there may not be any desire to alter the existing PPT presentation.

There are also a few Samson USB mics for around $100. One of my friends has one and it isn't so bad.

My personal preference though is an XLR mic through an interface of some kind a) because I already have XLR mics (:-) and because it gives a lot of choices - which may be either a blessing or a curse(:-)

Thanks to all that have responded and offered suggestions.

Sorry it’s taken me so long to update but I’ve been out of pocket and am just now getting a chance to respond.

Okay, here’s what I’m thinking. Please tell me where I’m going wrong and what if anything that I have right.

1. I like the idea of the Sony PCM D-50. It gives me flexibility to record almost anywhere. How I would use it – to record the audio for the converted Power Point presentations. We can’t really record to one of our desktops, very noisy environments. So I could take the talent to a quiet place in our building to record.

2. I like the idea of the Sony ECM-44B. It gives us the opportunity to use it to do the voiceovers and to record directly into our video camera using the Beachtek DXA-2S.

Now, can I use the Sony ECM-44B to record into the PCM D-50? If so, then it looks as if I have all my bases covered. I can use the camera to record as well as do the voiceovers in a quiet place.

Once again, thanks for y’alls help and any other suggestions would be great if you see that I’m really botching it here.

Please let me know if all this will work,

Andy

I just did a conversion of 2 DPA 4060. So that they can connect directly to any "plug-in power" recording devices, such as PCM-D50 or camcorder. With a custom built box, I can also power the DPA 4060 with phantom power and deliver balanced signal to the pre or recorder.
I don't know if there's any stock product provide this flexibility.

DPA Microphones :: Products
DPA Microphones :: Products

As I remember (may be wrong) the DPA mini mics can run on anything from 5 to 50 volts and the Sony has 5 volts so should work IF you could interface the DPA connector to a 1/8 connector.

On the other hand, the price of the 4060/4061 might be overkilll for this useage. I love the 4061's that I have but for voice I'm satisfied with the Voice Technologies VT500 lavs and a Countryman B6 that have 1/8 connectors and work with the Sony. As I recall these are all significantly less pricey than the DPA's

Last weekend I completed a successful recording session with an 8-channel USB interface (M-Audio FastTrack Ultra 8R) into my Sony VAIO VGN-NW270F laptop (2.2GHz Intel Core2 Duo) using Reaper audio software. I saw no issues with 8 channels via USB. This same interface did NOT work without glitching on a 1.6GHz Intel Atom netbook.