Headphones - What are you using?
 

Hey everyone

I quickly realized that my old Sony headphones aren't going to cut it for 12hr editing sessions. I need headphones that have a fine match of quality sound and longterm comfort, as well as keeping external things quiet. I'll be using them typically on my NLE but also for monitor sound on my gs120 and pd100.

Thanks!

Try here for some really good info on headphones.

[edited by moderator for language]

I searched before I did this. I don't feel like crawling through 4 pages of return results for 200 posts telling me to use headphones for every shoot...I know that. I want brands and models.

[edited by moderator for language]

Moderate price, good response, comfortable fit.

Sony MDR-V600 - about $90 to $100


There, your question is answered and you don't have to look at this thread any longer. No decisions to make. Job done.

The industry standard is the Sony MDR 7506, not the best nor worst sounding headphone, but is practically bulletpruf, and they are exceptionally common.
Around 95.00 most places.

Thanks guys lol

That moderator really murdered my last post...hehe I come off as more of a jerk than I would have otherwise.

The 7506s don't give much isolation, if that matters
to you.

Sony MDR-V6 is the "consumer" version of the 7506s. You can get them at a cheaper price, and they are practically the same thing from what I've heard.

They are a little hard to find... try eBay and froogle.com. (new ones)

Isolation is somewhat of a concern, my office is adjacent to a media viewing room which occasionaly gets loud.

All of the models you guys have listed look good, but really similar. Is there one I should get over another?

Thanks again

For isolation you can't beat these. My venues usually place me at the backs of theaters out in the open. These are like like good earplugs (-35 dB) that happen to have little hi fi speakers built in. Comfy enough that my biggest problem is that I forget they're there and try to walk away while I'm still plugged in.

http://www.etymotic.com/ephp/er6.aspx

But don't pay $139. Google search should turn them up at $100 or less.

Realistically, who wants to wear ear plugs. I bet not
many. Everyone is looking for good headphones to
cover the whole deal.

Thats not a bad idea though.

I'll throw in an IFB in both my ears and wear them for a 3-4 hrs to see if it causes discomfort.

Does it come with multiple sized ear pieces?

To get this kind of performance they'll be looking for a long time. Meanwhile, if they still want to look cool, they can wear the Sonys over these :)

Seriously, I'll have to admit I haven't used them for more than 2 hours at a time, but they didn't bother me.

Brian, they don't come with multiple size ear pieces, but the ear diaphrams are very soft and shaped to seal with minimal pressure.

Here's a quote from DSE:

"I carry 2 kinds of headphones with me most places.
My trusty, standard Sony 7506
My Etymotics ER 6's.

7506 is a great benchmarking headphone that most engineers in the world are familiar with. Not the best, not the worst, but by far and wide the most common. They are a semi-closed phone with great sound.

The Etymotic are a electret transducer that goes in-ear. Fabulous sound, nearly the best sound I've ever heard. Deep, rich bass that comes from being in contact with your body, these are labeled the "most accurate headphone in the world." I don't know about that, but I love them. I've premastered audio on them and found them to be darn near perfect."

But I also recall that Doug warns about rapid sensory fatigue from any headphones and against using anything but high quality studio monitor speakers for final edits. I'm surprised that he didn't react to Brian's phrase "12hr editing sessions" in the initial post.

Hey well thats something, i could buy both haha.

I wish I had the money to get a good studio monitor setup. I could piece together something that could sound really good and just get 75w crown rack amp to power it...but for now my computer speakers are fairly accurate.

My problem is I edit in an office with writers, and at home i edit late into the night and my 'old lady' doesn't find the sounds of jogging much fun.

Back in the day I remember having problems with oversized inner-ear pieces, but if they are as comfortable as you say I'll belive you. I have a set of clearcom IFB's sitting around and the ear piece is fitted for me so if I can handle that for a few hours then I think I'll be good to go on those as well.

Everyone, Thank you.

I've been using the Sennheiser HD25 headphones
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...ughType=search
for about a year now and I'm very happy. They sound great, have decent isolation and are very light and comfortable. Note that these are different from the HD25SP which have different drivers and a fiddly headband.
I've been also testing a pair of 7506 but find them heavier and not as comfortable, as the go over my ears but scrunch the edges of my ears. Maybe I just have big ones. The HD25, sits on the ear and the split headband holds them on my head very well.

For monitor speakers, I've been using the KRK RP5 powered monitors. Sounds great for not too much money.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...ughType=search

What about the AKG K240s? Are they out of vogue? Very accurate and comfortable, about $99 Mark

Since this is for long-duration editing rather than field recording, I'd recommend the Audio-Technica ATH-M40fs. About $80 online, priced way under how they feel and perform. Very comfortable and accurate with good isolation.

Jay,

What do you use for field recording?

A warning about mixing on headphones: You can hear everything.
This can be very misleading because you'll be able to hear really quiet sounds that will get lost in most normal listening situations. If the target is TV, a lot of people will have crappy TV speakers and lots of background noise. They won't be able to hear subtle sounds.

Here's one I'd have to debate and hear an exceptionally convincing argument...

First, while you can hear everything, NEVER assume your client or customer can't. Especially in today's world with people owning fairly high end audio gear for video. Noisy environ or not, if the sound is there and it shouldn't be, kill it.
Second, monitoring for small sounds is precisely what headphones ARE good for. If I'm doing noise reduction, I nearly always wear either my Sony's or my Etymotics.
Third...and most importantly; Mixing a show through headphones of any kind, ESPECIALLY closed back headphones, is foolish.
The driver couples with the mass in your skull and upper skeletal structure, creating a very irregular and false sense of lower frequencies and frequency relationships. (any one remember the "Bone Fone?"
While I've had very close mixes approximated on my Etymotics, these are an electret transducer earphone that works differently than a typical headphone and more importantly, they are exceptionally level. They claim, and I'd agree, that their ER4 is the most accurate headphone in the world. But I'd still never be courageous enough to release a mix done on these high end monitors, because even though they're flat and clean, they are still maintaining a physical relationship to your head/ears that won't be totally transparent to the final listening point...the viewer's television or audio system.

But....to each his own. Some folks might be happy with their headphone mixes.

I've always heard you shouldn't edit with headphones. They essential for monitoring audio while shooting but for editing you should use a good set of speaker monitors. That's what I've heard DSE say several times.

[Edit] Hah! I see DSE answered while I was reading and composing.

Good luck.

Dennis

I just mixed with 7506s and what sounded so good
and clear on the phones, sounded muddy and
muffled on monitors.
Anyone know a quick EQ to put on the audio track
to increase intelligibility of spoken-word vocals?
A bump in what range? (This is male vocals.)
I need the vocals to cut through more against
a music background.
The vocals were recorded with an AT4073,
which is pretty flat.
The recording was made outdoors with a furry
and is full and "on mic" but it needs to cut
through more, like it sounds in the 7506s.

Dave - pick up a copy of Jay Rose's "Audio Postproduction for Digital Video" book -- an excellent read. There's a chapter in there that includes some EQ recipes to play with for various issues, including speech intelligibility. Unfortunately, I can't think of it off the top of my head to help you out in this post, but the book is so good, you'll want it for more than just that section.

Just got my 7506's and they sound great and are quite comfortable.

Now I save for a moment and buy the other set of ear phones or a 75w crown amp and build some studio monitors. (I've been doing accoustic enginerring on the side for 5 years)

Thanks for all your help guys.

BTW, i bought that book you mentioned as well. Should be here tommorrow. I'll leave you my impressions.

Ok, problem

My epox mobo has what I thought was a great onboard sound card. I'm hearing a lot of artifical sounds if I'm not listening to anything. I'm used to the sound of squeel when I scroll something with my mouse, but this is kinda hardcore. I obviously never noticed it with my computer speakers but with these awesome headphones it's very apparent. When I play music or edit the sound seems to disappear but may be still there w/o me hearing it.

I have a Soundblaster Live I could throw in if it'd make my sound that much better, but I'd rather spare the PCI slot for something like a firewire 800 card.

Is there any options?

My soundcard popped up a thing when I first plugged in the headphones saying new audio device detected then swiched my control panel audio device from powered speaker to headphone. I tried using passive speakers and a few other random options it gave me but nothing seemed to get rid of the bg sound.

Thanks guys.

Epox ain't exactly very high on the list of quality, and the built in sound card is nothing to speak of. Then again, neither is the Blaster. There are no good "inside the box" sound cards, a good one is too bulky to fit in a PCI slot. the better cards are all PCI or PCI-X with a breakout, and they're well isolated. So, the question boils down to what you are and aren't willing to live with. The least expensive card I'd recommend on the Windows side would be something like an M-Audio Firewire 410 or an Echo EchoFire 8. Both are surround-ready, both have 2 channels of decent mic pre, both have great supporting software, and both have great tech support.
The Mackie Spike is a decent USB-based card, and has everything you'll need as well, plus it currently comes with Tracktion for free, and that's a very nice audio editor.

I'll take a look at those cards.

I was crossing my fingers to hear some simple fix...but while I'm building an editor I may as well do it right. Thanks for the suggestions, I'll take a look at them.

I had originally planned to run a 4-6 channel mixer into my line in and call it a day since it could do pretty much anything I wanted, but if this onboard and live are both shit I'll have to do something else.

Is there any special reason you are recommending external pieces?

~~~~~

And M-Audio...related to avid?

Does Avid own them?
Does this thing interface with Avid Express DV in anyway?

7506's... the only choice... many reasons. Sound good, pretty cheap, packs into a little ball, plenty efficient... (loud with weak input)... good isolation, comfortable... the Hollywood standard. $99

Do not edit with phones. Ever. It only leads to misery... if you can, get a small TV connected to your NLE so you see/hear what your viewers will.

I've edited with phones and it doesn't even sound as good on the monitors... subtle details that I fudged with for hours were completely lost... then for a while I edited with the monitors (before I had analog-out for the NLE) and then I'd see my stuff on TV and it was the same deal again... always wasting time on stuff I couldn't hear later... now I finally know what's worth spending time on and what isn't.

You can save a little money on the 7506s if you find a pair of Sony MDR-V6s. (From what I've read) the V6s were rebranded for the consumer market and have insignificant differences like a different sticker (it doesn't say professional) and the plug isn't gold.

I can certainly appreciate that. But I wonder about one thing. What about people who have home theater systems where the digital sound is played through quality receivers/amps and then to quality speakers? Wouldn't you want to have audio that sounded good through such a system?

Well when you consider the quality of studio monitors and good amps then your right there.

Even the cheepest JBL studio monitors play things I don't hear my computer speakers play. You got to assume they are as close to a high quality home theater system vs anything else.

I'm feeling the pinch so I think i'll buy a monitor amp today then build some speakers over the weekend. Any suggestions for a lower cost quality amp?

Overall, this is exactly true. On the video side, you can color correct through a junky Walmart monitor, or you can correct with a calibrated BVM monitor. At the end of the day, you can always suggest that "most people have the Walmart TV's" and that's probably somewhat accurate.
Or, you can realize that (if this is what you do for a living) that you need to not only meet the grade of the end user, but surpass it by at least a median margin, because while the Walmart TV owner might not miss it, the smaller percentage of very high quality gear will definitely miss the better video effort. Same is said for audio. For noise reduction, I use headphones in editing. For most everything else, I monitor on my Hothouses, Genelecs, or Mackie 626 system, depending on which room I'm in. For me, it doesn't matter if I'm doing a 30 second spot or a 4 hour doc for PBS, it effectively needs the same attention, and I need to hear everything with no assumptions on what the viewer/listener will be listening through. They might own a mono TV, a Bose home theatre system, or a high end set of Martin-Logan imaging transducers with a custom-built tube amp. My job isn't to worry about them, my job is to first satisfy the demands of the client, second to satisfy industry standards (as long as the client is in line with standards) and finally to satisfy myself that I've not let anything slip because I've invested in a good set of audio monitors that meet or exceed my ability to hear what is in the mix, and provide me with the palette I need, to work with, not work in spite of or against.
Audio monitors are your window to the final product, just like a video monitor is, and no less detail should be attended to for audio than for video. Even moreso, audio is far and away more important than video in most every production situation.