dynamic mic with wireless xmitter?
 

Can I use a dynamic mic (e.g. ElectroVoice RE50N/D) with a Sennheiser G3 transmitter? I'm thinking it would be nice to replace the ME2 lavalier with a handheld mic for man-on-the-street style interviews. But can I replace a condenser mic with a dynamic mic without hurting anything?

It should work in theory, as long as you have an XLR to locking 1/8" cable. The more elegant way to do it is to use Sennheiser's XLR plug-on transmitter, the SKP 100.

Yes you can.
You will need the correctly wired cable if you want to connect an XLR mic to the G3 beltpack transmitter. You'll also need to check the settings on the transmitter for proper input gain with the mic and volume of the subject. It will likely be different than the settings you used with the original lav element.

Good news. I was afraid that a dynamic mic might just crush the preamps in the xmitter belt pack.

The G3 ships with a 3.5mm mini-plug to XLR-M cable. I'm assuming that's meant to be used to run from the receiver pack to an XLR input on a camera. But can I turn it around and use it as the mic input to the xmitter? It fits. But that doesn't mean it will work ;-)

If so all I'll need to make this idea work is the dynamic mic, and a one meter (3 feet) XLR cable, female on both ends. I've never seen a cable like that, they all seem to be male/female pairs. Maybe a gender changer?

A gender changer (aka barrel adapter) will do it. Or you could hack apart the Sennheiser cable and solder on a female end instead.

The Sennheiser site has info on the input jack of the transmitter pack and how an input cable for powered mic/unpowered mic/line level signals needs to be wired. They each use different conductors in the jack to work correctly.
I don't think it will work to use the output cable with a gender changer, due to the input jack characteristics I mentioned above, but I don't have a G3 system to test so I'd look up the info at Sennheiser.

The correct way to do it!
 

There is some wrong information above!

Firstly - yes - using the SKP plug-on transmitter is the best option.

If you want to use a dynamic mic. into the pocket transmitter you will need a special cable that Sennheiser do not supply as standard and you will have to make up yourself.

You need an XLR-3F to lockable 3-pole mini-jack.

The XLR pin-2 signal needs to be connected to the jack tip.

You need to short the jack ring and sleeve together (the ring is the line input).

You *must* have a blocking capacitor in the XLR to prevent the plug-in power from the transmitter getting to the microphone. The information above makes no mention of this blocking capacitor and it is *essential*.

So a cable like this one maybe? Or this one? Seems to be made for the purpose. I'd like to find one that's shorter, like 1m (3 feet), but four feet might do in a pinch.

OK, looks like the answer might be the Sennheiser CM1 cable. It's got the 3.5mm mini-plug wired correctly, and it's got the capacitor in the XLR-F plug to block the drive voltage the body pack supplies to the condenser lav mics. And it's a lot cheaper than a butt-plug transmitter, and a lot lighter weight too. Should do the job, yes?

To answer my own question: Yes.

A guy on another forum said to just call Sennheiser tech. support and ask. So I did. Don't know why I didn't do that in the first place. Sigh...

Anyway, Sennheiser said it'll work fine. Dynamic mic, Sennheiser CM-1 cable, SK100 G3 bodypack transmitter. All I have to do is adjust sensitivity. So there is the "definitive" answer if you will.

No - neither of these are any good.

Sennheiser USA make the CM-1 cable which is wired correctly and includes the blocking capacitor.

At least, I assume it's made by Sennheiser USA as it's not on the UK price list at all.

That Remote Audio cable ought to work, if it has the blocking capacitor, The B&H blurb doesn't say one way or the other. Remote Audio is a branch of Trew Audio and they are very responsive to customer inquiries. A quick note to their Nashville store should bring the details as to exactly how that cable is wired and if it's not what's needed I'm sure they would be happy to modify it for a reasonable fee, they do that sort of thing all the time and know what they're doing.

I would not risk this cable - the description says it's for an "EK 100 transmitter" - the EK 100 is a *receiver*.

It's more likely to be a line-in cable than the mic. cable as the mic. cable should be clearly labelled.

You really *do* need the CM-1 cable and nothing else.

In fact, it does. I got an email back from Josh Harper at Remote Audio this morning. He states that their CASENEK100XM48 cable does *not* contain a blocking capacitor, and that for 99% of dynamic mics it's not needed -- dynamic mics almost always interface to the outside world through a transformer. If I remember my basic electronics correctly, transformers block DC.

He went on to say that he tried it out to be sure, using an ElectroVoice dynamic mic and a G3 transmitter. Said it sounded fine, didn't generate any noise, and didn't damage the mic.

Now *that* is what I call "very responsive to customer inquires" indeed. Gives new meaning to the concept "above and beyond" I think.

Worse, he said if I really wanted the capacitor, they could add it if I preferred.

Personally I would not risk something like that.

Not all dynamic microphones work through a transformer and you would be putting 5V DC up the +ve mic. cable.

What happens if later you want to use a condenser mic? with a battery or via a phantom power adaptor?

Also - the ring has to be shorted to sleeve to switch off the line input.

Personally I would only use the correct cable for the job.

I too was looking for a cable to go from an ew transmitter to mic...

It looks like the Sennheiser CM1 does not have the locking mini plug

but the Sennheiser CL2 does have the locking mini plug - it is a 6' cable and it is about half the cost.

Am I missing something?

The CL2 is wired to send a LINE level signal into the transmitter, not the MIC level signal you need. The line signal hot goes to the ring of the TRS plug while the mic signal hot goes to the tip.

Somebody at B&H should change their description :

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/217589-REG/Sennheiser_CL2_CL_2_Transmitter_Line_Cable.html

Does the CM1 have a locking mini plug? The picture at B&H doesn't look like it does.

Both item descriptions at B&H mentions line level or microphone level.

If the CM-1 is a genuine Sennheiser part it *would* have a locking mini-jack.

If it was made by Sennheiser USA it *would* have a locking mini-jack.

A locking jack is essential to prevent noise and crackles.

If it was made by anyone else - that's another matter.

The CM-1 cable from Pro Acoustics definitely *does* have the locking plug, you can see it in the picture.

Very different photo at B&H:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/310613-REG/Sennheiser_CM1.html

I guess it's not a Sennheiser CM1, but one made up by B&H or Sennheiser USA.

Sennheiser did not make his cable at the start and it was made up by the local Sennheiser agent as required. I suspect that the demand and the request from Sennheiser agents for Sennheiser to make one eventually prompted them to make such a cable - and the B&H photo is the old one - just a guess.

B&H does not make any cables AFAIK, That's not to say an outside third-party vender didn't.
I'll mention the error to the pro-audio dept. manager next time I'm around there.

I have the Sennheiser EW100 G3 Wireless ENG Kit
(http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/641012-REG/Sennheiser_EW100_G3_Wireless_ENG.html) and I had a few really simple/basic questions that I am curious about...

1. If I could stick my shotgun mic (rode ntg2, powered by a AA battery) on top of a boom pole, why not do it and not have to worry about the wires getting tripped over?? I feel like something is bad about this considering that you never see anyone doing it... is it a loss of quality? higher fail rate? a murphy's law preventative measure?

2. When hooking the receiver into my camera, what should I set the input setting too? "Line" "Mic" or "Mic +48v" When I use the "line" setting, I can't hear anything. But between the mic and mic 48v settings there is some difference, Which is the correct one?

3. Is there anyway to simultaneously use the "SKP100 G3 Plug-in Transmitter" and the "SK100 G3 Bodypack Transmitter" with the "EK100 G3 Receiver"?

Thanks everyone!

1. You could do it, I have done it, but wireless always has the possibility of interference and dropouts.
2. See this video: 3. No. You would need two receivers on different channels.

Thanks Edward, that is some awesome information and a great video... but it doesn't actually answer my second question being.....
"When hooking the receiver into my camera, what should I set the input setting too? "Line" "Mic" or "Mic +48v" When I use the "line" setting, I can't hear anything. But between the mic and mic 48v settings there is some difference, Which is the correct one?"

And remember that is the Sennheiser EW100 G3 Wireless ENG Kit (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/641012-REG/Sennheiser_EW100_G3_Wireless_ENG.html)

1. Yeah, that would work ... but.. how are you going to monitor what your doing? No problem for a stationary mic on a stand, but then what the point?

2. Select 'Mic' (w/ no attenuation). Set the AF level on the receiver to -18. This yields a strong mic-level signal with adequate head-room. Assuming the transmitter's sensitivity is setting is correct.

3. NO, but you can use one transmitter and two receivers.(or more) For instance sending the same audio to two or more cameras.

Well you absolutely don't need 40 volt phantom power. That's for condenser mics without batteries, like a shotgun. My G2 system is set up with -12 dB AF Out, running into my camera at mic level.

Thanks guys!
But one more beginner question, When DO you use the "line" setting on the camera? I always used mic or mic48v for everything and never line. Even when getting mixer signals (which is when I would have assumed you would use it). Thanks again

Actual Test Connecting a Dynamic Mic to G3 Transmitter
 

Well, got my bit and pieces and here's my first hand experience...

When the tip of the 3.5mm jack is connected to pin 2 of the xlr and the sleeve is connected to pin 1 & 3 and the ring is not connected, a dynamic microphone such as my Shure VP64A, the level is too low to use. (This would be the CM1 wiring)

When the ring of the 3.5mm jack is connected to pin 2 of the xlr and the sleeve is connected to pin 1 & 3 and the tip is not connected, the level from my dynamic microphone is very good. (This is how the CL2 is wired.)

The CL1 cable that comes with the Sennheiser camera set (3.5mm locking to 3.5mm angle) is something I will not be using, has all three conductors coming from locking jack. So you could make your own cable if you don't think you'll use this cable.

fyi, I've been an electrical contractor for 22 years and an electrician for 10 years before that. I've designed many electrical systems - so I know a bit about wiring...

So can you confirm if the CL2 wire is the better solution? What If I decide to use the CL2 to plug into a audio mixer getting a line feed out to the transmitter during a live band shoot. Will that work?

NO - this is *not* the CM-1 wiring!

The CM-1 has an additional capacitor in the XLR - this prevents the 5V plug-in power from the transmitter going to the microphone and causing problems.


You are then plugging in the mic. to the line input - so you have to turn up the gain and get more noise.

It sounds like you have a CM-1 cable without the blocking capacitor that is causing the problems.


Yes - if you cut off the rt.angled mini-jack and replace it with a female XLR and don't forget the blocking capacitor.

No - the CL-2 is a line input cable and should not be used for a microphone as it is connected to the line/instrument in of the transmitter.


Yes - that's fine.

Even with the CL-2 line input cable, I'm not sure the body-pack transmitter can 'handle' +4dB. -10dB is no problem, so use the board's RCA outs. Or better yet, use an pre-fader aux out for an independent of house mix, Just turn down the aux, master to lower the output some.

I'm on a slow and expensive roaming link now, so I can't check the actual figures.

But the input level *is* adjustable on the transmitter.

If the SK-100 transmitter's sensitivity adjustment does not control the transmitter's front-end input stage, it could distort regardless of the sensitivity adjustment setting. I recall having to pad down a +4 input a few dB to avoid some quite audible clips with the sensitivity set at -30 db.
I can't find any line-in dB range in the manual's specs or if the CL-2 cable has a built-in pad, so you may be very well correct John.