H4N peaks from 1-100
 

Hi, I did a show last night at the Great American Music Hall in San Francisco.

The sound man gave me a stereo feed (two xlr's) to put into my H4N. We did a sound check and it sounded fine.

The show started and my guy who was watching the audio noticed the sound was peaking at 75, so he brought it down as low as 5 on the H4N and still the sound was horrible.

I know for sure that I was using the 1 & 2 buttons on the H4n and not the Mic input. When I listened to the audio at home I can clearly hear the crowd cheering.

When my friend told the audio guy that the recording was peaking he turned the volume on his end all the way to off and yet we were still getting that horrible sound.

Question 1; when doing large live recording like that do you usually hear the audience cheer after a song?
Question 2: Is there a setting on my H4N that can give me a better range to adjust the sound with the Record Level button?

In past shoots, I've had to turn down the H4N to .6, .7

I'm trying to just wrap my head around why this happened. Maybe someone can shed some light on maybe why this happened and how I can prevent it.

Kelly

Re: H4N peaks from 1-100
 

Did you have the inputs set to MIC or LINE in the menu?

I suspect you had the XLR inputs set to MIC but they were sending you a LINE level signal.

Re: H4N peaks from 1-100
 

Hi Chris, I had the 1 and 2 button lit, but the mic button was off. Do I have to go into the settings to change it as well? I don't see it in the menu.

Thanks

Re: H4N peaks from 1-100
 

Hi Kelly,

I got my recorders mixed up in my mind. You are right that there isn't a LINE/MIC setting on the H4N. Had to go grab mine and make sure.

Sorry about that.

Re: H4N peaks from 1-100
 

If you run into that situation again you can use an external PAD to bring the levels down to an acceptable level.

This one is switchable.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/68085-REG/Audio_Technica_AT8202_AT8202_In_Line_Attenuator.html

Re: H4N peaks from 1-100
 

Thanks Chris,

I think the pickup audio of the crowd was just because they had 6 mics on stage, but what confuses me is that even the guy on the audio board cut out the signal completely and we still got a feed. Secondly, how is that going from 100 down to say 10 on the volume control didn't do anything to bring down the audio?

Re: H4N peaks from 1-100
 

That is confusing unless you had a REALLY hot signal from the board.

Did you notice any distortion or was it a clean signal?

Re: H4N peaks from 1-100
 

Either the board op didn't really know what he was sending to your recorder (i.e. it was not really turned off completely) or else you were using the recorder's integral mics.

Going down on which volume control? On the board, or on your recorder? I've never seen a volume control with a scale calibrated up to 100... up to 10 is more usual.

Re: H4N peaks from 1-100
 

It sounds like you were taking a line level signal into the mic level inputs. You can dial it all the way down, and will still have distorted sound at loud points. If you can either get a mic level out from the board, or use some inline pads to bring it down to mic level, you should be fine.

Re: H4N peaks from 1-100
 

@ Greg, he's talking about the input level on the Zoom. It goes from .5 (I think) to 100. I calibrate my mixer to my Zoom with the 1K tone, and the record level of the Zoom gets set around 70-75. Leaves plenty of headroom on my mixer.

Re: H4N peaks from 1-100
 

Thanks Andy.

He says lowering recording gain from 100 to 10 does not change the level. Does the Zoom have some sort of AGC mode where the manual gain setting doesn't do anything? (I have an oddball Sony that's somewhat like that.)

Re: H4N peaks from 1-100
 

It has a limiter circuit.

Re: H4N peaks from 1-100
 

The H4n's XLR inputs are MIC level. If you want LINE level inputs you need to use the 1/4" TRS inputs.

Re: H4N peaks from 1-100
 

Exactly, Aaron...

Re: H4N peaks from 1-100
 

Also, @ Chris, you can shut off the limiter. I keep mine turned off, and rely on the much better limiter on my mixer.

Re: H4N peaks from 1-100
 

Also, depending on what is coming out of the board you may need an attenuator. The H4n's 1/4" TRS in's are not true LINE but instrument inputs. If the board doesn't have an output fader then the pro LINE level will be too hot and you will need an attenuator. If the board has an output fader then you can bring the level down to match the H4n's inputs. With my Mixpre I output from the tape out which is a consumer line level signal (-10dBv) and it is still too hot. I have to use a -11dB pad cable to bring it down to acceptable levels.

Re: H4N peaks from 1-100
 

The fact that he lowered the Zoom's recording gain from 75 to 5, and the distortion persisted, certainly jives with what you're saying about line level signal going to a mic input. Keep in mind that he said it sounded clean before the show started, so the signal from the board must have been just a little bit below the Zoom's clipping level.

Yes, he definitely should use the 1/4" inputs on the Zoom, and probably with a pad to be extra safe.

Still, there is one part of this tale that "does not compute."

If the feed from the board was really turned completely off, he should not have had any audio on the Zoom. Board completely off should mean absolutely no signal from board which should mean absolutely no input to Zoom. (And keep in mind that the Zoom was clean, with some significant board signal, before the show started.) So there is still something puzzling here.

Also he mentions that he heard audience applause when the board feed was completely off.

This leads me back to the comment I made in an earlier post:
"Either the board op didn't really know what he was sending to your recorder (i.e. it was not really turned off completely) or else you were using the recorder's integral mics."

Re: H4N peaks from 1-100
 

I'm with Greg -- the internal mics might still have been on. I'm guessing the Zoom might have been in 4CH mode.

Re: H4N peaks from 1-100
 

I only mention this because I have done it:) Are you sure you were turning down the record level and not the volume? Both are on 1-100 scales...caused me a bit of consternation once!

Re: H4N peaks from 1-100
 

I'm with Greg -- the internal mics might still have been on. I'm guessing the Zoom might have been in 4CH mode.

Yep. And the sound guy's tweaks having no effect, very strange. Could it be that you are simply listening to the wrong file? Remember that in 4CH mode and with the internal mics also on, you will have not one file but three files. One from the internal mics and one each from the XLR sources. Have you checked them all? If you have, apologies to you :-)

Pete