DR-680 Recording Levels are Low
 

I have the Tascam DR-680 and I love it in many ways.

BUT... when I record, I get great levels showing on the screen, and it sounds good on the headphones... but when I bring the recorded file in to editing software it is VERY quiet. I have to boost it 21dB to get a usable level.

Does anyone else have this problem? Is there something buried in the menu that I'm missing?

Thanks in advance.

(I tried a search on this, but didn't see anything)

Re: DR-680 Recording Levels are Low
 

Are you recording 24bit? Your levels should be bobbing around the 80% mark on the meters. If your meters are usually around 50% on the tascam and in 24bit, then your gain isn't unexpected, really.

Re: DR-680 Recording Levels are Low
 

Andrew,

Thanks. I was recording at 16-bit. Which do you recommend on this?

I couldn't find any scale on the metering... is there one?

Re: DR-680 Recording Levels are Low
 

I have the DR-680, and it seems like the levels are low when I get them home. I think the one line you see on the audio meters is -12db. You should be bouncing around there. Also DO record at 24 bit. 24 bit gives you more headroom and you can record lower with less noise when you turn it up in post.

Anyway I recorded some VOs the other day and wasn't paying too much attention to the level, as it looked like it was showing a good level, but I wasn't paying strict attention to that -12db line.

Re: DR-680 Recording Levels are Low
 

That's the strange thing. My levels are bouncing around the line. But in the edit, the levels are way below that.

Re: DR-680 Recording Levels are Low
 

Exactly how are you measuring the levels in post? Are you metering a playback, judging by ear, or are you looking at the displayed amplitude of the waveform graphic in the timeline on the screen? If latter, could it just be a matter of selecting a different vertical axis zoom setting?

Re: DR-680 Recording Levels are Low
 

I'm using the metering in the editing software, and trying to hit between -6 and -12 on the dialog. And to get there I need to add 21 dB of gain.

And it's just strange, because like I said I am showing good levels on record (though I don't have a scale there), and it sounds fine on the headphones (of course there's no scale there either).

Re: DR-680 Recording Levels are Low
 

What it reads on the meter depends on your meter ballistics. A signal reading -20dBFS on an averaging meter will read about -12 dBFS on a peak-reading meter. -6 dBFS is way, WAY too hot for dialog in a mix. If you're going to broadcast, the dialnorm specs call for dialog averaged over the entire program to sit at -24 dBFS +/- 2 dB measured on an averaging meter. Dialog levels are locked first, then music and FX should be mixed in proportion.

Re: DR-680 Recording Levels are Low
 

No, this was for web. On YouTube I shoot for much much higher than broadcast.

Re: DR-680 Recording Levels are Low
 

Oh - but are you saying that the 680's metering will switch between average and peak? I haven't found that switch.

Re: DR-680 Recording Levels are Low
 

Don't know about the 680 - my guess is that it is peak reading only but I could be wrong. Dialog levels bouncing around -12dB there would be about right. But I was thinking of in your editing software. In many DAWs and NLE's, Vegas and Soundforge to name just two examples, the meters are switchable or you can display both peak and VU meters side-by-side.

-6 dialog peaks still seem too hot to me, even for the web.

Re: DR-680 Recording Levels are Low
 

For me I am just looking at the wav forms displayed in the timeline, and they usually look very low, causing me to bring up the levels a lot. I'm always afraid to try to record hotter because I don't want to blow a clients job. It hasn't been an issue because it still sounds clean, but not that this has been brought up I see it's a real issue, not just me forgetting to get good levels at the session. Hmmmmm

Re: DR-680 Recording Levels are Low
 

Somewhat related... I have the DR-100 - and thank goodness for the limiters!

I set the levels and had an inexperienced guy listen to the headphones for any problems like clothes rustling while I filmed an internal corporate project. When I reviewed the files, the levels were very hot - right up to 0 dBFS. Clearly, the presenter spoke softly for the test and became more animated during the filming.

Oh well. It sounds fine. It didn't hit the limiters too hard, and it's simply transparent. More than good enough for internal corporate work.

Assuming that the DR-680 has similar or better limiters, you can probably run it harder without much risk.

Re: DR-680 Recording Levels are Low
 

Chad - yes, the waveforms in the timeline look almost completely flat. Even the slate. Fortunately this last project I was cutting in Premiere, and when you bump gain there it actually shows up in the waveform.

John - yes, I can just boost it beyond what looks good to me and put the limiters on. But wow - I'd really like to have a solid sense when recording of what it is that I'll get.

Kinda glad to hear that others have that issue...

I can't find anything in the manual to say what the levels on the meter mean, except when the clipping alert comes in.

Re: DR-680 Recording Levels are Low
 

If the OP adds brings up this issue on the last page of this thread, there are many more people very experienced with the 680 who could shed some light on the subject hopefully.

TASCAM DR-680 portable 8-track #3

Re: DR-680 Recording Levels are Low
 

Good forum... but I'd probably start a new thread instead. I will play with it a bit more and then maybe post there, and post back here if I learn anything either way.

Thanks all.

Re: DR-680 Recording Levels are Low
 

I suggested that thread because everyone on it will get an email with your question, rather than finding the new thread by chance. Either way you'll hopefully get an answer.

Re: DR-680 Recording Levels are Low
 

Heya Barry,

I just did an industrial using my dr-680. I'm very happy with the results recording 24bit @48k. The 24bit gives a lot more headroom in the event you need to gain it up. I left it at 48k since thats what I'll be cutting/delivering.

Completely unscientific, but with my meters bouncing around 80% on the dr-680, they seem to bounce around 60-70% in premier. They are within a 4-5db of as loud as I'd want them in the mix, so i'd consider what i'm getting from the dr-680 to be good.

I've had people argue both sides of this, but from advice from some taper geeks, the "input gain" on the dr680 seems to be more of a cut than a gain. Rather than introduce noise when putting it into "hi", the hi seems to be "normal" and the "low" seems to be a db cut. Based on this advice, i always keep my mic input in the "high" position and the audio quality i'm getting seems to reinforce this as good practice. All my mics are pretty high spec, and with sanken cos-11 or schoeps 641 plugged in, the sound quality i'm getting at "high" gain is phenomenally clean. If i switch to "low", i have to then crank the input all the way up and in that setting i do hear hiss and noise.

my 2c anyways. For me, 24bit 48k, high gain with phantom and limiter on... i'm extremely happy with the quality and it absolutely does not show up as flat in premier.

Cheers!

Re: DR-680 Recording Levels are Low
 

Great - thanks!

Re: DR-680 Recording Levels are Low
 

Barry, in what software are you editing when you're seeing what appear to be levels that are too low?

Re: DR-680 Recording Levels are Low
 

Both FCP and Premiere.

Re: DR-680 Recording Levels are Low
 

I can confirm that on both the DR-680 as well as the DR-100, the "Hi" gain setting in indeed normal, and "Low" is a cut. So leave it on high unless you have such a loud source you are distorting the inputs. often when people set it to hi after hearing it at low, they hear more of everything, and think they are getting more noise. In context the files have no more noise, just more signal.

Re: DR-680 Recording Levels are Low
 

I can't offer any comment regarding FCP as I've never used it, but in Premiere Pro, if you load the audio file into the timeline, display the mixer panel, and set the faders to unity gain (the zero mark, about 2/3 the way up for the channel faders and all the way at the top of the range for the master fader) for both the track and the master, and play the file, what do the meters in Premiere show as the levels? If the file was originally recorded with signal bouncing around -12dBFS on the meters in the recorder, you should see about the same levels on the meters in Premiere. What do you actually see?

Do you have any DAW software such as SoundForge, Audition, Nuendo, Wavelab, etc, where you can see what the file looks like in more detail than Premiere allows and with a level scale on the waveform display? I'm really perplexed at the anomaly you're seeing.

Re: DR-680 Recording Levels are Low
 

Perhaps the software is converting the files from 24 to 16 bit and altering the amplitude.

Re: DR-680 Recording Levels are Low
 

I'm wondering if it's just an artifact of Premiere's timeline waveform display. When I take a rather hot music file that is clearly peaking between -6 to -4 dBFS when viewed or played in Soundbooth, Audition, or SoundForge and look at it in Premiere Pro, on playback in Premiere the levels shown on the playback meters agree with what I see in the other software but the actual waveform display on the timeline looks to be far more "conservative."

Re: DR-680 Recording Levels are Low
 

I'm shooting weekly using the DR-680 for sound with CMC-64 or G3's with COS-11's. What you set is what you get between PP and the 680. I'm using 48K 24bit and try to be ATLEAST at the mystery line of -12db on the meters, often coming close to the top. Unless you have very animated dialog, its not been a problem and the 680 limiters have kicked in as needed to prevent any serious distortion on peaks.

I've done 2 shoots where the PA monitoring audio let things go by a bit low, but boosting 12db or so in PP was totally clean. PP does audio in 32bit FP, so its not adding anything bad. Your mic / ambient room tone will add more then the DR-680's preamps. Busman.com has mods claiming 12db more s/n ratio, but I'd be interested in seeing real world results before spending $300 on the mod.

Re: DR-680 Recording Levels are Low
 

I assume you guys are talking about the dotted line representing -12db, right?

I just assumed the 16 and 50 stood for negative db.