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Rode Videomic - Live Band - Settings
Hi all.
After watching a dozen video review/tip guides/set ups and reading a load of google search results im still a little lost on my new bit of kit. Rode Videomic (not stereo, not Pro). Using it with a Canon 600d. Firstly I spent a lot of time reading about AGC only to find out that because the 600d has manual sound controls AGC effectively doesnt exist. Note: I dont know much about sound! On the mic there is settings for 0, -10 & -20db along with a high pass filter option. I think my main problem is understanding the manual levels I can adjust within the camera and what settings I should have them at. Am I right in thinking the mic volume control in the camera is digital gain and the microphone settings (0, -10 & -20db) are analogue gain? The digital gain, ive read, should be set to almost 0 although I find that I need it at 50% and the mic set to 0db to get a reasonably clear and audioable level. High pass filtering should be on for dialogue only? Im filming a live performance next week and ill be able to test during sound check although the buttons on the mic are extremely small and annoyingly placed behind the battery that i'd like a few pointers before hand. Despite sounding terrible for dialogue should I be setting the mic to -10/-20 for live music and lower the digital gain as much as possible? What db level do I want to be peaking at for live music? Shaun |
Re: Rode Videomic - Live Band - Settings
See the sound recording section of the camera manual. AGC does exist and you can choose between using it or controlling the levels manually. There are no magic setting where you can say "in this scenario use those settings" - each situation is unique. What can be said is to leave the mic's own attentuation switch at 0 unless the sound is so loud that you're overloading the recording device. If the signal fed to the camera is too hot, set the switch to -10 or -20 as necessary. The ideal is to be getting optimum recording levels from however loud the sound is with the recording level controls set at about half to 2/3 of their range.
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Thanks for the advice Steve. I do have the camera set to manual sound.
So in regards to filming a live band would you also say that the high pass filter is another setting that varies from gig to gig or is that option more clear cut? |
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Hi pass will remove most of the bottom end of a bass guitar, so I'd not choose it unless you want/need to remove the bottom end. It's really for rumble reduction - which for speech means things like aircon noise and other low frequency annoyances. For music, you want to record as much as is there.
The other thing to watch out for is image shift. Depending on the band, and what is going through the PA, you can sometimes find an on camera mic can hear some very odd things - in some positions, you could find both of the internal capsules are pointing at the PA, which may not have certain things in in, as the amp or instrument on stage is loud enough. You could find that the PA gets recorded loudly while the bloke centre stage with the un-amplified sax is missing! |
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Very helpful Paul. Sounds like being centered and face on (..obviously) to the band will be the best bet. Depending on PA set up (..obviously)!
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Re: Rode Videomic - Live Band - Settings
People place cameras where they need them for the desired framing. Why does nobody ever consider that a microphone needs to be placed also for the proper perspective, or acoustic "POV"? Especially since there are no "zoom microphones" (dishonest vendors notwithstanding).
NOTE: Mounted ON TOP of the camera is virtually NEVER EVER the right place for ANY microphone. An extension cable is only a few $/₤/€ and it will have one of the biggest cost/benefit ratios of anything you have acquired this month. |
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Building on Richard's thoughts, a shotgun such as the VideoMic would not be my first choice of a microphone to use for recording a band. 'Guns are directional mics intended to isolate a single source from their surroundings. In a music context you might use one to pick out a soloist from the ensemble of to bring up a vocalist but not for recording the entire group. For a group, a mic with a wider pattern such as a cardioid or even better, a stereo mic or stereo pair, positioned as Richard suggests, would be a better bet.
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Noted, although cost plays a big factor here. Im only low budget. Extension cables sounds like a good idea although for this particular event im filming space is extremely limited and I think im going to be extremely close to/in the crowd so having an extension wire running across the floor isnt a possibility (in this instance).
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You need some of this:
(I wish I had bought shares years ago in the company that makes this stuff). |
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how about an h1 and let it record for most of the performance? wouldn't your sound change as you move around?
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All filmed and went well. Sound recording was perfectly fine.
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I dont have a mic stand or extension cable/tape/a dedicated sound assistant and the client wasnt expecting me to have those. It was a come in and shoot it job. I got there early to test out and set the mic level and that was good enough. Approaching every question on here with an answer geared towards a more professional set up isnt always helpful. That said, I would like to make it clear im not getting my back up about it. What the client expects, regardless of budget is never set in stone and its always helpful hearing a more professional answer even if it doesnt relate directly to the situation you are dealing with. |
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What the client expects of you should be less important than what you ought to expect of yourself and I believe that one's personal standards should be to never deliver a job that is in any way less than the very best your skills are able to produce. If that means you have to spend a couple of bucks in order to gear up to do it right, then that's what you do. |
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Also, stands and cables will last you over 20 years. That tank of gas might last two weeks. Dinner out? a few hours.
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$500/mo for transportation? Ouch. And the time cost on the road. Double ouch.
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I have the Stereo VideoMic Pro and use it with my Canon 60D. What setting do you use in live bands?
stelios |
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"I have the Stereo VideoMic Pro and use it with my Canon 60D. What setting do you use in live bands?"
Analogy: I have a automobile with 5-speed transmission, what setting do you use for hills? |
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Pride
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I have to chime in because I video live bands all the time. That earlier comment about a camera mounted mic being not good is odd. Camera audio, either built-in mic or shotgun, is essential especially when using syncing software like PluralEyes. You will never go wrong by having great camera audio...even if it will never get into the final edit.
My experience: Camera will never give you good live band audio. Being tethered to a properly placed mic on a stand is impractical... unless your camera is on sticks. Your best bet at good sound is a field recorder. I use a Zoom H4n. You can get a feed from the PA board AND record with the built-in stereo mics. Set up your recorder next to the board. After you get that method dialed in you can get SPECTACULAR audio of bands. If you don't have a Zoom or the like ask the sound guy if he can record a CD off the board. This is all applicable to capturing an over-all ensemble performance, a complete song, the big picture. |
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I quite agree, mixer left and right plus room stereo will give you something solid to work with - much depends on your relationship with the person doing the mix - some will be responsive, others a total pain in the bum.
I did love the gas price comment. Here in the UK at the moment, it is $2.25 a litre! |
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This is a great thread. "Audio" is a GREAT subject matter section!
The past week I was in travel status and when I returned this week I started putting together my camera and mic rig (kit? Still trying to learn the proper terms for everything.) The kit (rig?) I've been trying to put together is something that I can use for making a video on a SAILboat. Read: it's breezy and windy most of the time. The second problem is there will be NO sound man onboard (Captain's rule). Also, there will be NO sound female on board (Admiral's rule!). Only one Captain and one Admiral will be on board. The third problem is this is only a 35-foot boat so it's not very big and the cockpit is small. There is NO room to move around, or at least not much. No place to set up a tripod. So, How to do this? Last month I picked up a Rycote Windshield with a Windjammer for the mic to deal with wind noise. This week I found a Stroboframe bracket that seemed stout enough to support the Windshield. Put together a home-made adapter plate and placed the Windshield on top, attached it to a quick-release, bolted everything to the Stroboframe bracket, mounted the camera, hooked up the wires, and voila! Whew! As of last night I had a camera and mic that I can use on the boat. I was Soooo Happy!!! Well, maybe except for one thing. The sailing season is over and it'll be next year before I can try it out. Other than that, I can admire the rig. Today I was playing catch-up on the posts here and came across one that rained on my parade. Talk about popping your bubble! Quote:
Camera and mic rig: Home made adapter plate: Note: Home-made adapter plate made from a piece of fairly heavy framing metal bought for $2 from Home Depot. Put this together yesterday. The fasteners are temporary until I can get something more professional looking and hopefully spray-paint the metal with black paint. After all, this needs to look really professional, right? The coiled pigtail is not shown. The quick-release plate is a Manfrotto 3270 that came with the Stroboframe bracket when I bought it used. The Rycote Windshield as a unit can be easily installed or removed with one hand thanks to the quick-release plate. |
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Thanks for your kind reply, Steve, and the good explanation.
Like we used to say at work, "If you don't want to hear the answer, don't ask the question." I pretty much knew what the "right answer" is but I guess I'm learning this the hard way. Quote:
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Having said that, I'm also on the lookout for how I can improve the situation and a lavalier seems to be the only realistic next step but that's going to run several hundred dollars on the used market. A mid-level solution might be to have a small mic and a recorder on the subject and try and sync the audio in post but I've never done this before and dread even the thought of it. But something like a Tascam DR-40 can be had for a couple hundred bucks and would be nice to have in the audio toolbox for other purposes. The Stroboframe can be adjusted vertically in very small increments but I don't have it set up to adjust horizontally. This is potentially possible but would take additional modification. 24"? I understand where Richard Crawley is coming from. Quote:
Let's hope some good deal comes up in the next several months. One year it rained so much I didn't get out on the boat until July so I do have time on my side. |
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Steve: Okay. I give up. This rig cost me less than $2 to put together, plus a few hours of drilling holes, filing, and cutting, to put together. I've got probably a half-year until the weather clears enough around here to go sailing (and then it'll be cold) so I'll be working on a Plan B.
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The old radio programs have not gone away entirely, in spite of so much TV. Our local Public Radio station has the "Lake Wobegone" program that has some audio stories with sound effects. Just looking at the number of viewers on this web site one can see that the Audio section consistently has more than any of the upper categories. I wonder if the management here will ever consent to some sub-sections but I'll have to say that probably "Only The Shadow Knows." ;-) |
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John, I had a very similar Stroboframe - may even be the same model which I also endeavoured to pimp for shooting video. But in the end it was just too awkward to use in real life shooting despite it appearing to do the job when testing. Too difficult to handle and carry around, to put down safely, to hold steady when shooting etc. Shame because I really wanted it to work and to get some use out of the ancient and expensive Stroboframe.
You can get decent cages very cheaply now; thoroughly thought through and functional. Visit cheesycam.com for lots of on a budget tips. And through them the gearbox: GearBox GB-2 - Video Accessory Cage w/ 15mm Rod Adapter by PNC | Photography and Cinema - Store If you get the version with the attached rods it is very easy to put down safely. You can use risers such as Manfrotto style studs to made the handles taller if needs be. Use a collapsed / extended monopod for extra stability if required. Your mic with wind protection would be difficult to accommodate on any heldheld rig but you could use a friction arm. They are readily available on Ebay in 7" and 11" version and with clamp and hotshoe versions e.g. Pete |
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On the other hand, I'm a bit of a loss for a better alternative. The Windshield I already had so there was no cost there. The Stroboframe I just bought and figured I could use it for something like maybe an on-camera light and there is room for a mic, too. Got this, with the little Manfrotto quick-release plate, for $70. There are other things I could use it for like maybe a monitor. Making some video from a sailboat deck is going to be a challenge but I'm up to it. It's definitely going to be a challenge. Quote:
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Thanks very much for the feedback and the links. |
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