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-   -   which way to go with audio and wireless (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/all-things-audio/513887-way-go-audio-wireless.html)

Phil Gadd January 30th, 2013 04:09 AM

which way to go with audio and wireless
 
Hi

My little hobby is fast turning into a small business. I started with a TM900 and a rode video mic pro, Rode lavalier and Zoom H4N recorder. Im just about to purchase a panasonic ac-90

I am trying to improve my workflow so I can capture interviews more professionally indoors and outdoors.

I am not sure whether to purchase the Sennheiser EW 112-p G3 and how that will work in my current setup.

Would appreciate any thoughts, suggestions before i spend again

Thanks

Rick Reineke January 30th, 2013 09:19 AM

Re: which way to go with audio and wireless
 
"I am not sure whether to purchase the Sennheiser EW 112-p G3 and how that will work in my current setup
- The G2/3 100 series is arguably the best budget wireless system. Many users 'upgrade' to a better mic element... the included works.. but it ain't very good. (ie; pro quality). As with most systems, performance will depend on the users' skills and due diligence of frequency selection. A cheap mic cable would work better in any case.

Chris Medico January 30th, 2013 09:32 AM

Re: which way to go with audio and wireless
 
What are your thoughts on why you want to go wireless? What problem are you working to solve?

Phil Gadd January 30th, 2013 10:36 AM

Re: which way to go with audio and wireless
 
thanks Rick

Yeah I already have the rode lavalier mic (plus converter connector for the Sennheiser).. Think I remember seeing a video on the rode lavalier vs the sennheiser so having both will be ok.

I will check out that forum thread for sure.

Hi Chris, last year I filmed a golfing event for an ex footballer, I was very luck to get the job but when filming the interviewee I had to use a long lead down to a Zoom h4n, then press record and walk back to my camera etc... so my thoughts were to somehow either capture the audio (sit the H4N on top of the ac90) and have the wireless sennheiser on me and linked to H4N).. or is there a better way?

Im planning some community projects comming up and I would like to film a little further away but catch quality audio etc

Edward Carlson January 30th, 2013 12:33 PM

Re: which way to go with audio and wireless
 
The AC-90 has XLR inputs, right? No need for the H4N in that case. It just complicates things unnecessarily.

Wired mics are always preferred over wireless, so only use wireless when you really need it. Also get more XLR cables, they're relatively inexpensive and I always find that I never have enough.

Phil Gadd January 30th, 2013 01:04 PM

Re: which way to go with audio and wireless
 
Thanks Edward

hmm I agree there has always been an argument over wired and wireless (I use a beta 87 radio mic to sing through but the wired beta 87 seems much better..

I really fancy keeping my 500 but how do the real pro's do this efficiently and effectively?

Edward Carlson January 30th, 2013 01:21 PM

Re: which way to go with audio and wireless
 
It depends where you are conducting your interviews. If it's a sit-down interview, wired always wins. If the person talking is moving around at all, like if they're giving a tour, or demonstrating a golf swing, then wireless is the only way to go.

If you have a need for a wireless, the Sennheiser G3 is a great value for the money. Lectrosonics is the next logical upgrade from Sennheiser, but that comes with a big bump in price. When you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail. If you do get a wireless system, just remember to only use it when the wired mic won't do.

Chris Medico January 30th, 2013 01:24 PM

Re: which way to go with audio and wireless
 
I use wired where possible and will go wireless only if you make me. Long XLR cables are cheap and sound better. I have wireless if I need it but there has to be a compelling reason.

Phil Gadd January 30th, 2013 01:41 PM

Re: which way to go with audio and wireless
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Carlson (Post 1776168)
It depends where you are conducting your interviews. If it's a sit-down interview, wired always wins. If the person talking is moving around at all, like if they're giving a tour, or demonstrating a golf swing, then wireless is the only way to go.

If you have a need for a wireless, the Sennheiser G3 is a great value for the money. Lectrosonics is the next logical upgrade from Sennheiser, but that comes with a big bump in price. When you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail. If you do get a wireless system, just remember to only use it when the wired mic won't do.

Super advice, Im actually looking at working with golfers and martial artists at some stage so the wireless will come in very handy.

I guess because I have been using flimsy thin cables (non XLR inputs) its put me off but I will try the lavalier with the XLR connector and plug that into the H4N or directly into the AC90 (if that would work.

Pedanes Bol January 30th, 2013 04:29 PM

Re: which way to go with audio and wireless
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Gadd (Post 1776141)

Hi Chris, last year I filmed a golfing event for an ex footballer, I was very luck to get the job but when filming the interviewee I had to use a long lead down to a Zoom h4n, then press record and walk back to my camera etc... so my thoughts were to somehow either capture the audio (sit the H4N on top of the ac90) and have the wireless sennheiser on me and linked to H4N).. or is there a better way?

Remote control for H4N might be an inexpensive solution:

Zoom — RC4

Paul R Johnson January 30th, 2013 04:41 PM

Re: which way to go with audio and wireless
 
I would have no hesitation to suggest the Sennheiser will do you fine - it's a great match to the camera, both performance wise and price wise. The video fraternity have some very odd views of audio, often recommending amazingly expensive audio equipment to go with modestly priced video kit, yet happy to perch an umpteen thousand pound camera on a flimsy bit of aluminium and plastic. They talk about Sennheiser as a budget system. At around 500, it's not budget. In fact, Sennheiser G3 and the similar Shure are the system of choice for professional PA hire companies. The broadcasters have tended to stick with Audio Ltd, Microns and Sony kit. It's good quality kit, having the right facilities for the broadcasters. Sennheiser have a range of kit that can be combined so you can have lav mics, headsets, plug in transmitters and mics you can sing into. You have mains and battery receivers too.

Mic wise - the lav systems come with basic mics. The omni is quite serviceable. Swapping them for MKE-2s or similar from DPA, Countryman and a few others produces slightly nicer sounding audio, but they're pretty expensive. WIth a bit of careful eq, the supplied mic is not a problem at all.

As long as you buy ch38 versions, I'd suggest they're an ideal system to start with - and you can always upgrade the mics IF the supplied ones don't suit your ears.

Rick Reineke January 30th, 2013 04:58 PM

Re: which way to go with audio and wireless
 
I would concur with Edward, if your camera has XLR inputs, why complicate the setup. The H4n's preamps probably are not any better than the camera's.. maybe worse.
You could also mount the G3 EK100 receiver on the camera. The EW112 G3 package includes a locking 3.5mm to XLR adapter cable.

Steve House January 30th, 2013 10:39 PM

Re: which way to go with audio and wireless
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul R Johnson (Post 1776204)
...They talk about Sennheiser as a budget system. At around 500, it's not budget.....

Compared to the other Sennheiser wireless lines or Lectrosonics or Zaxcom the G3 are definitely entry-level, budget systems. Good professional level wireless doesn't come cheap.

Phil Gadd January 31st, 2013 01:28 AM

Re: which way to go with audio and wireless
 
thanks guys

Paul i have noticed an 'E' or 'GB' on the end of the sennheiser product, I assume one of these means channek 38 compliant?

not sure what MKE-2s are but i will google it now.

Rick, so you would feed directly into the camera?

ps i looked at the rd-04 remote but its restricted with a lead which is a pain

John Willett January 31st, 2013 05:42 AM

Re: which way to go with audio and wireless
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Gadd (Post 1776272)
thanks guys

Paul i have noticed an 'E' or 'GB' on the end of the sennheiser product, I assume one of these means channel 38 compliant?

not sure what MKE-2s are but i will google it now.

Rick, so you would feed directly into the camera?

ps i looked at the rd-04 remote but its restricted with a lead which is a pain

The letters denote the frequency windows (in frequency order):- "A", "G" "GB", "B", "C", "D" and "E".

In the USA the ones that are legal are "A", "G", "GB" and "B".

Version "E" is the one with the European licence-free de-regulated frequencies - but with 4G broadband starting up, this narrow 2MHz window of 863-865MHz is all that is legal on this version in Europe.

Version "GB" was made for the UK and incorporates frequencies from both "G" and "B" and alsi the Ch.38 frequencies that come between them. Ch.38 is only legal in teh UK with a licence and must not be used in any other country - but the other frequencies on "GB" are also legal in the USA and Canada.

The MKE-2 is a very high quality Sennheiser tie mic. The version for evolution wireless is MKE 2-ew (these come as standard with G3 500 series and 2000 series).

John Willett January 31st, 2013 05:45 AM

Re: which way to go with audio and wireless
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve House (Post 1776249)
Compared to the other Sennheiser wireless lines or Lectrosonics or Zaxcom the G3 are definitely entry-level, budget systems. Good professional level wireless doesn't come cheap.

But the Sennheiser G3 sound quality is definitely very professional (especially when used with a better microphone than the one supplied with the kit) - also in a test a year or two ago the G3 had the best range of all the more expensive professional systems, beating Audio Ltd., Lectro, Zaxcom, Micron, etc...

Phil Gadd January 31st, 2013 07:45 AM

Re: which way to go with audio and wireless
 
wow, John thanks very much, thats a clear explanation and helps me greatly

Steve House January 31st, 2013 10:17 AM

Re: which way to go with audio and wireless
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by John Willett (Post 1776306)
But the Sennheiser G3 sound quality is definitely very professional (especially when used with a better microphone than the one supplied with the kit) - also in a test a year or two ago the G3 had the best range of all the more expensive professional systems, beating Audio Ltd., Lectro, Zaxcom, Micron, etc...

Yes indeed ... was trying to say the G3 marks the entry into professional level wireless and that most other pro-level units were even more expensive, hence for professional grade gear the G3 is a bargain.

Rick Reineke January 31st, 2013 10:20 AM

Re: which way to go with audio and wireless
 
"Rick, so you would feed directly into the camera?"
Yes- But test it out before a gig. And DO NOT use the camera's (or any recorder's) AGC.

Guy Smith February 4th, 2013 03:07 PM

Re: which way to go with audio and wireless
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Gadd (Post 1776095)
I am trying to improve my workflow so I can capture interviews more professionally indoors and outdoors. I am not sure whether to purchase the Sennheiser EW 112-p G3 and how that will work in my current setup.

I have a G2 system and it's very nice IF your camera has XLR inputs. If your camera has an unbalanced 1/8" input then you will likely get some noise. I believe that the noise is caused by the receiver's output impedance (600 Ohms). I have observed that mics, mixers, etc. with an output impedance of 500 Ohms - 600 Ohms are noisy, whereas lower impedance mics (150 - 200 Ohms) are quiet.

Other than the noise issue, which you may not find objectionable (or even noticeable if you're shooting outside) I highly recommend the mic. The omnidirectional capsule sounds very good and I personally do not like having an XLR cord from my camera directly attached the interview subject.

If you're shooting outside wind noise can be an issue, so pick up a fuzzy wind screen and you'll be set.

Phil Gadd February 6th, 2013 03:04 AM

Re: which way to go with audio and wireless
 
Thanks Guys for all the help

Its a slippery slope audio, being a 'musician', Audio has a big place in my heart but it comes at a cost. So far I have bought:-

Rode videomic pro
Rode Lavalier and extension plus mini furry wind jammer
4 different Rode connectors
Sure beltpack and lavaliere (I thought I could use this with my beta 87 slx series, doh)
Zoom H4N

About to buy:
senneheiser EW112 G3
Rode NTG3 (possible)

The Pro's must have a very happy bank manager because doesnt like me at present lol

Gary Nattrass February 6th, 2013 03:18 AM

Re: which way to go with audio and wireless
 
I agree with everyone else that you can't go wrong with sennheiser G3 as a radio mic set-up.

If budget is tight you may wish to consider an Audio Technica 875R small shotgun with a rode PG2 pistol grip and a WS6 softie but if you can go to the NTG3 that is even better.

The 875R's are at a bargain price on e-bay at the moment: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/A-BRAND-NE...item53eeeb9887

Rode PG2 and WS6 will cost you around a further 90.

Phil Gadd February 6th, 2013 04:57 AM

Re: which way to go with audio and wireless
 
Thanks, another forum member has mentioned this exact mic, thats a quarter of the cost of the ntg3, is it a quarter of the quality though?

Gary Nattrass February 6th, 2013 05:29 AM

Re: which way to go with audio and wireless
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Gadd (Post 1777526)
Thanks, another forum member has mentioned this exact mic, thats a quarter of the cost of the ntg3, is it a quarter of the quality though?

In a word NO, OK it isn't an NTG3 or a 416 but for general purpose use it does the job very well, I have five now and have used them on everything from indie drama to full broadcast and they are perfectly acceptable, I would not say the same for the NTG1 and 2 though as I thought they were lacking:

Example of a boomed AT875R straight into the back of my camera here:

All the dialogue on that was done with one AT875R

Phil Gadd February 6th, 2013 05:06 PM

Re: which way to go with audio and wireless
 
Gary, thanks... Nothing wrong with that audio, sounds great

Never boomed a mic before as I lays work lone BUT I'm realising fast its nt a business where you can work autonomously.. :-)

Trevor Dennis February 6th, 2013 05:28 PM

Re: which way to go with audio and wireless
 
I loved the movie Gary, but what happened to the Taylor boys?

Gary Nattrass February 6th, 2013 06:30 PM

Re: which way to go with audio and wireless
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Trevor Dennis (Post 1777668)
I loved the movie Gary, but what happened to the Taylor boys?

Ah yes well that's the mystery all I know is that the scarecrows are very much alive and living in the producers dining room! ;0)

It was a tribute to Hammer horror films in the 70,'s hence the very naturalistic fx and naff acting,it was shot in November and the only bad day of weather was the last pick-up day when we shot the big zoom on mr scarecrow and the wind blew his head just at the right time!

Phil Gadd February 7th, 2013 06:00 AM

Re: which way to go with audio and wireless
 
Great video, sad story to follow it though, lost my mum to the same disease on christmas eve a few years ago..

GOOD NEWS... got that AT875R for 95 from that link. Any ideas about a windshield (do you need a cover for indoor use?)

Gary Nattrass February 7th, 2013 06:56 AM

Re: which way to go with audio and wireless
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Gadd (Post 1777753)
Great video, sad story to follow it though, lost my mum to the same disease on christmas eve a few years ago..

GOOD NEWS... got that AT875R for 95 from that link. Any ideas about a windshield (do you need a cover for indoor use?)

It comes with a bag, std mic clip and foam windshield which should be OK for indoor but for outdoor use I would get a rode PG2 with a WS6 softie!

For 95 there isn't a shotgun mic on the market to match it and as said I now have five of them as my std gen purpose mic's.

Sorry to hear about the loss of your mum, I also lost my partner Catherine and my Mum and Dad to cancer but nothing prepares you for the suffering a 12 year old has to go through.

I deleted the post re it as in hindsight I didn't like it being on the forum and for people to think Dave and Matthews film was related to it.

Phil Gadd February 7th, 2013 07:03 AM

Re: which way to go with audio and wireless
 
Never offended me Gary, everything is related or linked in some way in this world, hence why we made films and videos to tell the stores of life :-)

Great I am on the case to find a bargain as we speak

PS shall i go for what you said or go for this for a few more pennies?


Gary Nattrass February 7th, 2013 07:11 AM

Re: which way to go with audio and wireless
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Gadd (Post 1777761)
Never offended me Gary, everything is related or linked in some way in this world, hence why we made films and videos to tell the stores of life :-)

Great I am on the case to find a bargain as we speak

PS shall i go for what you said or go for this for a few more pennies?

SUSPENSION WINDSHIELD SYSTEM: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics

Blimp's are great but can be a bit bulky for this type of mic, I sold mine as I rarely used it and as the AT875R has some LF cut built into the design I find a softie is enough for most things!

Juno records are best for price http://www.juno.co.uk/ or look on e-bay for the PG2 and WS6 I just bought both last week for my AT875R sennheiser radio mic set-up and paid 49 for the PG2 and 38 for the WS6 inc delivery.
A rode micro boom pole may also be useful for a further 35.


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