Re: What's your kit-list to attach various sound desks to your cam's XLR input?
 

It should be mentioned that setting 0dBu tone coming out of the mixer to -20 or -18 dBFS on the camera meters results in normal speech (0 to +4 on the mixer meter) hovering around -12dBFS. Your suggested method can result in reduced headroom in the camera.

Re: What's your kit-list to attach various sound desks to your cam's XLR input?
 

May I ask why you say this? Is the reason for the possible impedance and level mismatches or just for precautionary isolation?
My bag of tricks includes some XLR to TRS cables and a bandolier of attenuators. I stopped using DI boxes (except for guitars and keyboards) after finding they caused more problems than they solved.

Re: What's your kit-list to attach various sound desks to your cam's XLR input?
 

I have 4 Whirlwind IMP-2 DIs. Bought them brand new. After occasional headaches with sound not getting passed correctly, I figured I'd TEST them all. Yup. One dead one.

I use DIs where they make sense and cable adaptors where THEY make sense.

YMMV.

Re: What's your kit-list to attach various sound desks to your cam's XLR input?
 

For the SONY HXR-NX3/VG1 camera we're getting, the Audio Input is as follows:

XLR-type 3-pin (female) (x2), line/mic/mic +48 V selectable

I take it that means that I would need a female XLR connection on the camera side?

As regards everything else, I'm admittedly lost, but trying my best to understand, so I am going to carefully read more and return once I'm a bit more up to speed. I truly appreciate your patience with me.

Things I think I've learned so far:

It's better to have audio recorded from the mixing desk (both as backup and as a higher quality recorded) into something like the Roland R-88 8-Channel Recorder & Mixer-- which not only records the audio in a higher quality than the SONY HXR-NX3/VG1 camera can manage (is this strictly true?), but also it features a limiter, which will prevent sound passing through it from leaving it in the 'red'.

Only if the limiter on the Roland R-88 is unable to prevent the levels from going in the 'red' (but surely a limiter can handle high levels--maybe it can't handle VERY high levels?), it is then that I introduce an attenuator such as a ROLLS DV25(B) passive DI to take the sting out of the levels. I can also use the ground lift switch on this device for hum elimination if needs be.

Re: What's your kit-list to attach various sound desks to your cam's XLR input?
 

No.
Mic inputs in general (including your camcorder) have FEMALE inputs, and they require a MALE connector to plug into them. Most connectors remain steadfastly hetro-sexual despite societal changes. Homosexual (or more correctly "hermaphroditic") connectors are quite rare these days.

That is a complex issue that does not work well as a simple generic question. Certainly there are many cases where recording from the venue sound system provides a mix that may be impossible to achieve by any other method. But it has its limitations and is not a universal solution.

No, it is no strictly true. Certainly pro-sumer digital recorders like the Roland (and Zoom and Tascam, and Sony, et.al..) are better than low end consumer camcorders and DSLRs of ANY price/quality. But better video camcorders with proper XLR inputs are roughly equivalent to most of those portable digital audio recorders. There are advantages and disadvantages to using separate audio recording devices. Again this is a complex issue for which there are no simple general-purpose answers.

Yes having access to limiters and compressors is a useful tool to manage recording levels. But again, it is not a universal solution as they are frequently too "mechanical" for high-quality use, and typically make music sound terrible.

Correct. Limiting is useful for taming unruly level differences. But it is NOT a solution for proper level matching. A limiter won't solve the problem of taking a line-level signal and feeding it into a mic-level input.

The Rolls DB25 is a great little gadget. I have four of them along with a kit-bag of cables and adapters to accommodate connecting to a wide variety of connectors and signal levels.

Re: What's your kit-list to attach various sound desks to your cam's XLR input?
 

I don't disagree with anything that Richard wrote. In light of your ORIGINAL question (post #1), concerning the ability to record from boards, I would add that a multitrack recorder gives you flexibility that in-camera recording does not. If you must (or want) to connect a camera to a board feed, you live with the mix from the board. However, when you can lay down several tracks, e.g., 8, you could record (up to) 8 channels (or sub mixes) from the board and then mix to your own taste. Otherwise, you trust the board operator to fade channels and apply any FX that you can live with.

In one instance where my confidence in the operator was almost nil, I just took a few direct outs from the board. In another with more than 30 channels, including instruments, stage mics, and nearly a dozen wireless mics, I relied on the experienced operator to provide me a with a few post-fade mixes through the board's aux sends, all to excellent effect.

In no case do I EVER rely upon my recorder's limiters. Though the limiters are armed, I set levels so that a rare spike is the only thing that might engage the limiters.

Re: What's your kit-list to attach various sound desks to your cam's XLR input?
 

Even a direct output (or pre-fader send) is subject to the board operator skills (or lack thereof). The direct out can still subject to preamp overload and an external comp/limiter wouldn't help. A transformer mic-split would be the 'safest', of course that requires an additional skilled person and more gear. Even then, an awful mix could acoustically would get into the room mics or even the spot mics to an extent.

Re: What's your kit-list to attach various sound desks to your cam's XLR input?
 

I gave this tread some thought and tried to figure out how to simplify it for you. I can’t. The problem lies in your original question about “how do I do it in ALL situations”. That is liking asking me to put everything I have leaned in 20 years in one paragraph, it can’t be done.

What separates a basic camera operator from the guy that gets it right every time is experience and knowledge. The guy that can always get it right is a technician.

Everyday there are a lot of guys out there recording conferences with a couple of cables and maybe a sub mixer (if that) and recording decent audio. Some of them are probably reading this thread and thinking, what are we doing to the poor OP? The basics work in a perfect world. Beyond that, your screwed if you do not understand how to adapt to the real world. Conference audio guts messed up a LOT. Even by AV companies that have their own technicians working on it.

The root of ALL audio is about signal flow. Explaining signal flow is beyond the scope of any simple forum thread. I think you said you picked up Jay Rose’s book on recording good digital audio. That is a great place to start. It will be much easier for us to help you with specific questions instead of broad sweeping ones. Richard did a great job of breaking down your last post, but I suspect you are still scratching your head. There is no easy answer to complex audio situations.

I have learned to THINK of audio in terms of signal flow. You obviously want to learn. Start with the basics, and expand on your foundation from there. The basics of signal flow never change.

Steve

Re: What's your kit-list to attach various sound desks to your cam's XLR input?
 

Good comments, Mr. Digges.

Above and beyond getting an appropriate mix, I think the basic concepts to keep in mind are:

1.) the difference between balanced and unbalanced signal wiring, and the different levels typically encountered,

2.) the causes of overload, distortion, clipping, and how to remedy same,

3.) the types and causes of various forms of unwanted electrical noise.

Once a person understands those concepts, then he will know which adapters to use, when and how to use a DI box, etc.

I'm pretty confident that Jay Rose covers those topics in detail, although I haven't looked over his books for a number of years.

One very important point. Once distortion is introduced at some link in the signal chain, you can't remove it at a later link. So the levels must be appropriate at every link (i.e. proper gain staging). And if the distortion is generated inside the house mixing desk (e.g. a mic preamp or a mix buss with gain set too high), there is nothing you can do with your equipment to fix it later. That's why the house equipment and house operator are such an important -- and scary -- variable in the whole equation.

Obviously, as Mr. Digges says, all of this requires more than one paragraph. On the other hand, it doesn't require calculus and it's not rocket science. (I wonder whether rocket scientists have an internet forum somewhere!)

Re: What's your kit-list to attach various sound desks to your cam's XLR input?
 

Thanks so much for the feedback guys.

Here's where I'm at (responses from two sound companies I will be dealing with)

1. A sound technician from one company wrote "All our desks can supply you with audio via a quarter inch jack aux output, it will be unbalanced at line level."

2. A sound technician from another company wrote "Can provide auxiliary XLR out balanced. You would need to have a female XLR at 90% of desk' to get a feed. It would also be worth you having converters (XLR to Jack) and you will also need to convert the female XLR at the camera end to input the camera. Most pro camera's can accommodate XLR but smaller camera's may not, not my game."

My SONY HXR-NX3/VG1 requires a require a male XLR connector to plug into it.

What do you think he means by "female XLR at 90% of desk"?

Re: What's your kit-list to attach various sound desks to your cam's XLR input?
 

"What do you think he means by "female XLR at 90% of desk"
90%? right-angle maybe???.. and it's entirely possible the board has XLR-M outputs. So you need a XLR-F to XLR-M (standard XLR cable)
Most boards these days use 1/4" TRS for outputs.. be it main/masters, aux sends, direct channel, sub-masters and marix, so always have 1/4" TRS to XLR-M cables or adapters. Most are (nominal) +4dB balanced/unbalanced as well, but actual program level can vary depending on if the operator has everything gain staged properly., so expect anything! As was stated, having a DI with switched or variable attenuation is a no brainier when dealing with the unknown..

Re: What's your kit-list to attach various sound desks to your cam's XLR input?
 

90% means ninety percent. 9/10. Universal mathematical notation as in 5th grade math. The other "10%" of boards may have TRS, TS, RCA, or something rare.

90º means ninety degrees. right angle. Universal mathematical notation.

Mr. Reineke's comments about other connectors, adapters, cables, levels, etc. are spot on.

Re: What's your kit-list to attach various sound desks to your cam's XLR input?
 

So it's probably a typo that he wrote desk instead of "desks". It was the singular use of desk that threw me.

Re: What's your kit-list to attach various sound desks to your cam's XLR input?
 

Could I check with you guys, when you say "1/4" TRS for outputs" and "My bag of tricks includes some XLR to TRS cables" are you referring to either '1' or '2' on this page?:

A Guide to Types of Cable Connector... | Dawsons Music

Re: What's your kit-list to attach various sound desks to your cam's XLR input?
 

Peter,

"Could I check with you guys, when you say "1/4" TRS for outputs" and "My bag of tricks includes some XLR to TRS cables" are you referring to either '1' or '2' on this page?:" Answer.... number 2 is the 1/4" TRS end of what we refer to, XLR is on the other end.

That page has a good, simple explanation of the jacks.

TRS is Tip, Ring, Sleeve, number 2 on your page

TS is Tip, Sleeve, number 1 on your page

The function of each is explained on that page. But they are only explaining one plug. A 1/4 TRS to XLR patch cable is commonly used to go from the 1/4" output on the board to a XLR input on a camera or other device. If the 1/4" output on the board is balanced you will send a balanced signal to the balanced XLR input.

A TRS to XLR cable cannot carry a stereo signal. TRS to TRS can carry stereo. I only mention that because they do. But here, we are talking primarily about balanced and unbalanced signal paths.

Steve

Re: What's your kit-list to attach various sound desks to your cam's XLR input?
 

1) Be prepared for XLR of EITHER gender. Proper outputs from mixing equipment is typically male. However there are situations where they send you the feed via an existing mic drop which is typically female out at the far end (where you are).
2) Be prepared for 1/4-inch both TRS (balanced) or TS (unbalanced).
Those should cover most (but perhaps not 90%) of the cases for professional equipment.
3) Be prepared for RCA and 3.5mm connectors, also. RCA are typically consumer line level (-10dBv), and 3.5mm are typically "headphone level" stereo. But "headphone level" is close enough to line-level to not be a big deal.
4) Be prepared for everything from mic-level up to speaker level.
5) Isolation is always a good thing.
6) Conversion to balanced ASAP is also a good thing.
7) Use conventional balanced XLR cables for the physical link over to your camera (or recorder, or mixer, etc.)
8) Be thoroughly familiar with the operation of your camera (or whatever equipment you are using to receive the audio). Know how to switch (if possible) and the limits for mic level and line level. Know how to turn phantom power on and off. Know how to switch between mic-level input and line-level input.

The Rolls DB-25 (A or B) is a very handy gadget and offers very good performance for what it costs. It pretty well covers these items:
(4) Especialy the Rolls DB25b has a continuously-variable attenuator which accommodates virtually any level you will encounter.
(5) It provides full isolation via a decent transformer.
(6) It balances your feed regardless of whether the source is balanced or not.

A couple of Rolls DB-25 and a handful of input jumper cables and adapters for (1)-(3) will cover virtually all professional situations, and most amateur ones, as well. The DB-25 is inexpensive and very good value for the money. No good excuse not to have at least one or two of them.

The next level up would include a small mixer and some microphones and stands and perhaps mic-splitter transformers as well.

And of course, REGARDLESS of where you sound is coming from, always (Always, ALWAYS) monitor the audio in GOOD, SURROUND, OCCLUDING HEADPHONES. Or GOOD ear-buds (not cheapie things that come with iPod, etc.)

Recording audio without monitoring and metering is exactly like shooting video with framing and focusing. You wouldn't try to shoot video without a viewfinder. You wouldn't expect to record audio without good headphones.

Re: What's your kit-list to attach various sound desks to your cam's XLR input?
 

Terrific advice Steven and Richard (and everyone else who has posted to date). Shall absorb and post again soon.

In the meantime, the 3rd (of 3 -- they don't hire any others apart from these 3)sound technician emailed a reply in response to my email: "Our powered desks would (be able to provide audio via a quarter inch jack aux output, it will be unbalanced at line level) but our digital desks would be XLR.
If we are ever working an event in which you would require an audio feed all you need to do is contact us before hand and we can supply whatever input and run of cable you would require at no extra cost to the client."

So, these are my 3 sound technicians I will be dealing with:

1. A sound technician from one company wrote "All our desks can supply you with audio via a quarter inch jack aux output, it will be unbalanced at line level."

2. A sound technician from another company wrote "Can provide auxiliary XLR out balanced. You would need to have a female XLR at 90% of desk[s] to get a feed. It would also be worth you having converters (XLR to Jack) and you will also need to convert the female XLR at the camera end to input the camera. Most pro camera's can accommodate XLR but smaller camera's may not, not my game."

3. "Our powered desks would (be able to provide audio via a quarter inch jack aux output, it will be unbalanced at line level) but our digital desks would be XLR.
If we are ever working an event in which you would require an audio feed all you need to do is contact us before hand and we can supply whatever input and run of cable you would require at no extra cost to the client."

Re: What's your kit-list to attach various sound desks to your cam's XLR input?
 

If I could focus on this particular sound technician first of all, just to get me up and running, and offer your thoughts if you could:

"All our desks can supply you with audio via a quarter inch jack aux output, it will be unbalanced at line level."

So,my thinking is that because I am taking unbalanced outs from their board, I'm definitely going to need a Rolls-DB25b DI box, to convert the unbalanced signal from the board to balanced, which can then go into the balanced XLR line input on my video camera.

----------

1. I purchase a cable with a ¼” unbalanced Jack ('Stereo Jack'/TRS) Connector on one end [#2 from below link] to plug into the sound desk output, and on the other end of this cable there is a ¼” **TS** unbalanced Jack [#1 from below link] which plugs into the Rolls-DB25b DI box input.

A Guide to Types of Cable Connector... | Dawsons Music

What type of actual cable should I get (cable between the connectors)?

What length of cable is advisable? 3 feet?


2. I purchase an XLR mic cable for balanced signals with a female XLR connection at one end (for the balanced output from the Rolls-DB25b DI box) and a male XLR connection for the camera input.

What length of cable is advisable? 100 feet?

------

How does that sound?

Re: What's your kit-list to attach various sound desks to your cam's XLR input?
 

"1. I purchase a cable with a ¼” Jack ('Stereo Jack'/TRS) Connector on one end [#2 from below link] to plug into the sound desk output, and on the other end of this cable there is a ¼” **TS** Jack [#1 from below link] which plugs into the Rolls-DB25b DI box input."
> The DI's 1/4" input is unbalanced I'd get a cable with 1/4" TS plugs (unbalanced, guitar type) at either end to go from the board's 1/4" output to the DI's 1/4" input. This cable is unbalanced so the length should be kept relatively short. Typically less than ten feet. Shorter is better in this case.
BTW, Not to nitpick but Dawson's terminology in incorrect: A male connector is a "Plug" a female connector is a "Jack" (at least in the pro audio world)

"2. I purchase an XLR mic cable for balanced signals with a female XLR connection at one end (for the balanced output from the Rolls-DB25b DI box) and a male XLR connection for the camera input."
> A standard XLR cable to go from the DI's XLR output to the camera's XLR input. The camera must be set to Mic level BTW

"What length of cable is advisable? 100 feet?"
> Depends how far you will be from the DI. Most have many of different lengths. However since it's balanced coming out of the DI, length is not an issue. You could likely run 300+ feet without any audible issues. I would recommend purchasing good quality cables.. Not only are the less likely to pick up extraneous RF noise, they much easier to work with and coil up. A good quality cable should last your entire career. w/o catastrophic accidents.

Re: What's your kit-list to attach various sound desks to your cam's XLR input?
 

Richard, Your last post has to qualify for some kind of record about how much good information can be fit into one post. Great stuff!

Peter, A couple more basic tips:

Tech areas, ie: the table where the desk is, are notorious for having big piles of messy cable all over the place. Make sure your audio cables are not run alongside AC power cables. You should avoid contact with power cables at all times. If they must touch, do it at 90 degree angles.

Depending on how much gear is at a tech area, it is also common for their to be a 3 phase 60 amp electrical drop box nearby. Technicians often throw a piece of black drape over it because they are ugly. Keep your audio cables away from it too. One time, we had one leaning against a back wall next to a tech station covered by a black screen skirt. I looked over and saw a guest sit on it, and he set a large cup of coffee down next to him on top of it. After I caught my breath, I politely removed him. I did not know how to explain, if he spilled his coffee his gonads were going to be welded to a metal box by the electrical arc.

Using an aux send is a good feed. Remember that the gain must be set for every channel that is in use. If the audio guy forgets to turn up the gain on a channel, like PC audio for example, you will not receive audio from that channel. A totally unacceptable but common fail! If every channel is tested and gain levels are set this does not happen. So what does the fail tell you?

Steve

Edit: I should note that now if a drop box is placed outside of our tech area they are clearly labeled as HAZARDOUS. Not only would the coffee spill have been catastrophic.....I HATE it when my show goes black!

Re: What's your kit-list to attach various sound desks to your cam's XLR input?
 

Steven,
I was laughing out loud at your description about the drop box. I am sitting here and am thinking about the times when I was running either camera or acting as a V1 which honestly I'm not (a solid V 1 1/2 though) and have seen clients cheap out and try to run everything thru the exsisting 110 wall outlets. Yep, I 've seen that. Hey these lights (that could light up a small town) had regular plugs so we can just plug them into the wall. What do we need a drop box for...BTW, what's a drop box?
Shame on the show runner and the AV company suppyling the equipment which around here is quite common. Those Av companies will load in, set up and in 99% of the times run the gear but I've worked shows when some of the most basic gear isn't there because the client didn't order it. Duh, isn't that the job of the AV company contact to tell them why they need it?
Oh well, I'll try to remember the line about someones gonads the next time I see something like this happen and I'm gonna guess it won't be to long before it happens.

Re: What's your kit-list to attach various sound desks to your cam's XLR input?
 

For using the DB25 or similar boxes, I would use TS (unbalanced). Because the input to the DB25 is unbalanced, and TS will work with both TRS balanced outputs, as well as TS unbalanced outputs. If you use TRS balanced, you run the risk of it not working (open circuit) if plugged into an unbalanced (TS) output.

3 ft/1m is a good length. The longer it is, the more risk of picking up interference in the unbalanced section. Too short, and you may not be able to get into tight places in some situations.

I have various length of XLR cables from 3ft/1m to 100ft/30m. Most of my XLR cables (20 or 30 of them) are 50 ft. because I do mostly larger-scale live event audio and video stuff.

Re: What's your kit-list to attach various sound desks to your cam's XLR input?
 

Yep Don, shows crash for a lot of reasons. All most all of them are avoidable. Shame.

When I have a client that does not want to pay for power I tell them this story: I was a green tech working a beautifully done show with four other techs at our station. The TD told us to be careful because we were on wall power because the client refused to pay for a drop (stupidity on the TDs part too, just get the damn box in there!). Anyway, two hours into morning kick off, all going well....Bam....EVERYTHING lost!

The banquet department was on the other side of our wall setting up a bagel station for the morning break. We crashed the show because of a bagel and a toaster! I learned my lesson early on with that gig. You can only imagine how ugly the finger pointing got as those responsible all ducked and covered.

A frigging Bagel took out a $50,000.00 show! I do not work without proper power if it is my gig!

Steve

Re: What's your kit-list to attach various sound desks to your cam's XLR input?
 

OMG, Steven, I swear to God, the same thing happened to me at a show in October at a high end hotel in the Chi town suburbs. Big show about 800 people attending, 1, ONE yes 1 camera---me center rear, DXC35 with a Canon 40, Nice AV station set up at the rear to my right, I'm on a spider pod everything is taped down enough that it would hold the space shuttle together. We run a rehearsal in the early AM, show starts at 10AM and I don't see a single drop box anywhere. There are light trees, single Lekos up lighting on the stage, a 16 channel mixer and not 1 but 2 Folsoms plus 2 laptops and 2- DSR45 deck plus 3 projectors. There was some other stuff mixed in I can't remember it all but all I know was 5 minutesbefore the show started BAM! we went dark. No nothing! Why? We all started running around like crazy chickens looking for the cause when it dawned on the V1. The kitchen and main highway were right behind the banquet room. We had lights plugged into the wall plugs back there. that line was a mainline to all the others I guess because when they plugged in a 4 slice toaster that was all she wrote. Darkness!
Fortunately I knew the house man there and asked him if he could get us some drops. We actually needed 4. Inside of 15 minutes we had the drops and moved everything over and started the show. True we were late but the group was so disorganized it didn't matter. I swore I would NEVER do a show again without drops. Oh yeah, the AV contact asked who was going to pay for the drops. I was going to answer but the house man got in there and said, that he wasn't going to charge him because he knew me and BTW why didn't you order them to start with? I had to walk away to keep from laughing.
Louis, I still owe you a beer for that one! ;-)

Re: What's your kit-list to attach various sound desks to your cam's XLR input?
 

Met the sound technician today who wrote (my earlier post) "All our desks can supply you with audio via a quarter inch jack aux output, it will be unbalanced at line level."

He said they can offer a TRS AUX balanced output.
So, in this instance (TRS AUX balanced output), am I thinking right that an XLR cable with a TRS connector at one end, and an XLR connector on the camera end, should be okay (discounting limiting etc for a moment) to get balanced signal into my camera?

Re: What's your kit-list to attach various sound desks to your cam's XLR input?
 

"a TRS connector at one end, and an XLR connector on the camera end, should be okay to get balanced signal into my camera?"
> Yes Peter, that should work. Obviously the camera's audio input would need to be @ line level.
Always have a plan B. (and C) Carry a DI along in case there are ground loop or other issues.

Re: What's your kit-list to attach various sound desks to your cam's XLR input?
 

1) LEVEL; You can probably accommodate the signal as "line level". But it would be prudent to be able to handle "oddball" levels (too hot for mic-level and too low for line-level). That is why something with a variable attenuator (like Rolls DB25) is valuable for handling the widest variety of cases.

2) ISOLATION: Directly connecting your camcorder (or whatever you are using) to the venue system runs the risk of ground loop issues (or worse). IMHO is it STRONGLY RECOMMENDED to use a proper isolation solution like a transformer. Especially if you are operating YOUR equipment from mains power.

3) MIX: I don' remember that you told us what kinds of programs/productions you are doing? If this is a simple lecture/talking head, then an "aux mix" is probably OK (REMEMBER TO ALWAYS ALWAYS MONITOR YOUR AUDIO WITH GOOD HEADPHONES AT ALL TIMES!!!!!)

But if this is anything more complex (more than 2 microphones), giving you an "aux mix" or "aux feed" is troubling. It makes me think they are proposing something that will require more active attention than they are likely to manage easily. Unless they have proved otherwise, I would much rather have a tap off the main mix vs. some "special mix/output" just for recording. But maybe I am just paranoid.

Re: What's your kit-list to attach various sound desks to your cam's XLR input?
 

Okay here's where I'm at (pressing video requirements are filming one person standing at a podium). How does this sound for the following two situations:


1. **For TRS unbalanced AUX output at line level**

TS unbalanced 3 ft/1m cable with 1/4" TS PLUGS (unbalanced, guitar type) at either end.
3 ft/1m

Rolls-DB25b DI box

2 50 foot XLR M>F MIC CABLES

—

2. **For TRS balanced AUX output**

Again same setup as '2' to handle "oddball" levels (too hot for mic-level and too low for line-level):

TS unbalanced 3 ft/1m cable with 1/4" TS PLUGS (unbalanced, guitar type) at either end.

Rolls-DB25b DI box

2 50 FOOT XLR M>F MIC CABLES

Re: What's your kit-list to attach various sound desks to your cam's XLR input?
 

Yes.
And for male XLR source, a female 3-pin XLR to male TS 1/4 inch plug (for the Rolls DB25).
And a male-to-male "gender changer" adapter for female XLR source,.

CA-302

Re: What's your kit-list to attach various sound desks to your cam's XLR input?
 

Plan C for 'one person standing at a podium':
Put an additional mic on the pod. For instance, a lav can easily be attached the existing house mic.
Plan D; a mic splitter. Actually this would be a good Plan A. On occasion I have even used both a direct feed and pod mic split. I would use the pod mic alone and bring in the others in if there were comments from a panel.
There are number of ways to approach these type of projects. My usual M.O. in some of the NYC hotels: I would integrate the systems by putting all the mics through my mixer and send a pre-fader mix to the house and use the main linear faders for the record mix. This gave me complete control over the systems. However this was with an unattended system, the hotel A/V staff or external A/V company would set-up the system and leave.
Not recommended for the inexperienced though.
PS: A room mic or two to pick up applause and such is recommended as well.

Re: What's your kit-list to attach various sound desks to your cam's XLR input?
 

Yes, absolutely everything that Mr. Reineke said.
It sometimes works to use the microphone ON your camera to pick up the "room tone" or audience reaction (applause, laughter, etc.), assuming your camera is somewhere near the audience. Of course, you would be using only one channel, and the other channel would be the venue mix or your microphone on the presenter, etc.
Note that it is NOT typically workable to use an on-camera microphone for anything else, particularly speech or dialog of any kind because the camera typically puts the microphone too far away from the source.

Re: What's your kit-list to attach various sound desks to your cam's XLR input?
 

Don,

The toaster strikes again!!! That is wild.

Mistake number one. No drop box.

Mistake number two. Using plugs outside of the ballroom. That was a disaster waiting to happen.

Mistake number three. Not knowing the circuit pattern in that ballroom.

Ten minutes in the dark, priceless. The TD is lucky he still has a job. Also, what was common about your story is it was YOU who came up with the fix. The guy that made the bad decisions is rarely the guy that knows a fix when the DODO hits the fan! Moral, don't get burned by a toaster, they can hurt more than blisters on your fingers! Good job.

Peter,
Me and Don went off topic with old story's but here is why they apply to you. There is one big problem when working in a ballroom. They are full of people! So your a camera guy, you got through your morning session and all went well. What could you possibly worry about. You take a quick 10 minute break while everyone else takes twenty. Your 45 minutes in to the next session and all of a sudden you notice the battery icon is in your finder and it is flashing low. What the hell, your on shore power, right? Not anymore. While you were on break some moron was having a crisis because the battery on his I-phone went dead! Guess where your power cord is. It is lying on the ground under the socket you were plugged into. And the guy put a chair in front of it so it would not be as noticeable. I am not kidding, things that stupid happen! Be prepared for anything. And the key to success is vigilance through constant monitoring of everything, not just audio. For a simple composition like a podium presenter I keep all data information live on the monitor I'm shooting with.

Also, ask your audio guy if the presenter is going to be wearing a lav? The only time you can count on your subject staying at a podium is when the podium mic is all they have. Most presenters like to walk around on the stage. How good is your fluid head and your focus skills on a moving target in what will probably be dim light. If your lucky they may have thrown up a couple of lekos, but that is a whole different story.

Steve

Re: What's your kit-list to attach various sound desks to your cam's XLR input?
 

Yes.. it's not uncommon for inexperienced speakers (without warning) just walk away from the pod whilst talking.. or have 'Microphobia' (fear of microphones)

Re: What's your kit-list to attach various sound desks to your cam's XLR input?
 

Steven,
We have worked the same jobs quite possibly for the same clients and with the same audience. Well maybe not but they sure all seem the same.

Rick,
I have thought about using some electro magnetic force field to keep people at the podium under any and all circumstances.
I love it when they walk away from stage right to center which is about 20 feet away and aren't mic'd. Luckily, I don't run audio too often but when I do I cringe anytime I see someone's foot start to move.

Re: What's your kit-list to attach various sound desks to your cam's XLR input?
 

This kit of adapters has come in very handy for me (pro model) as I can make just about any kind of cable with it and an XLR cable:
Adapt-a-Pak adapter kits | Remote Audio

You'll never find another box that holds that many adapters in such a neat arrangment.

Re: What's your kit-list to attach various sound desks to your cam's XLR input?
 

Nice one Tom!

Re: What's your kit-list to attach various sound desks to your cam's XLR input?
 

Could anyone recommend a large audio bag that could accommodate 4 x 50 foot XLR cables, a Rolls DI box and a bunch of adaptors?

Re: What's your kit-list to attach various sound desks to your cam's XLR input?
 

How about a large, soft, toolbox like they sell at WalMart, Lowe's, or HomeDepot?

What I actually use for all my long cables, gaff tape, power strips, etc. is a large gym bag. Small parts are kept in smaller color coded bags inside the large bag.

Re: What's your kit-list to attach various sound desks to your cam's XLR input?
 

Have been quoted for a Bespoke (hard) Flight Case (with wheels and handle) of the below sizes which I'm interested in

2 ft x 2ft x 2ft
3ft x 2ft x 2ft
4ft x 2ft x 2ft

Which would be a good size for 4 x 50ft XLR cables, Rolls DI box, adaptors etc? Potentially may get a mixer and other accessories down the line.

Re: What's your kit-list to attach various sound desks to your cam's XLR input?
 

IMHO, they are ALL too big. How about something attache-case size? I have a bunch of inexpensive cases from Harbor Freight. And some of their plastic bin boxes to carry and organize adapters. Cheap, flexible, and not so slick and expensive-looking that they shout "STEAL ME" like some fancy box with "SONY" in big chrome letters on the side.
Click on the link below to see a photo of what I'm talking about. For some silly reason, this forum won't let you post images from the internet.

http://www.harborfreight.com/media/c...mage_21232.jpg