Re: Urgent Help: Advice Recording a Choir (16 Members) in a Cathedral 9 Second Echo
 

Why don't you rent a stereo pair of good microphones? This looks like a local resource:

Hire: Microphones - Neumann, Royer, Soundfield, DPA, Sennheiser

They may even have suggestions for recording in that venue.

Re: Urgent Help: Advice Recording a Choir (16 Members) in a Cathedral 9 Second Echo
 

I always perceive this as wasting money, as I'll no doubt need an omni or cardioid mic eventually, or a good pair of stereo mics... I was tempted to go with Bruce's advice with a single omnidirectional microphone as well?

I am interested in anyone who can advise me of an omnidirectional mic to use? Quite a few people have mentioned how a stereo recording may be too much for me as a beginner?

Re: Urgent Help: Advice Recording a Choir (16 Members) in a Cathedral 9 Second Echo
 

They work well for spot mics, not so well as main pair mics. LDCs have some interesting strengths and some interesting weaknesses. One of the weaknesses is how they perform off-axis, and it's largely an artifact of the size of the diaphragm. And for main pair work, off-axis is critical (IOW, you can easily hear it). The effect is that the reflection can sound colored compared to the direct sound. That's... disconcerting, and it calls attention to itself.

One of the problems with multi-pattern mics is that they form the multiple different polar patterns by using a pair of back-to-back diaphragms. They use these in different ways to make the various patterns. Which is fine, but you can't get a pure pressure omni this way. All the patterns are pressure gradient patterns. What this means is that it can give you an omni polar pattern, but it won't really sound like a "true" omni. Just like the figure 8 pattern is back to back cardioids, and not a true single diaphragm figure 8. I'm just sayin' that there are compromises made to get the different patterns. For most studio work it's fine. For main pair work sometimes it's not.

Re: Urgent Help: Advice Recording a Choir (16 Members) in a Cathedral 9 Second Echo
 

I'm not saying it's too much for a beginner; everyone has to start somewhere. I'm saying there's learning curves to be climbed, and you have said you have very limited time. It's the lack of time and resources that makes me think: keep it simple.

Re: Urgent Help: Advice Recording a Choir (16 Members) in a Cathedral 9 Second Echo
 

Thanks Bruce.

As a final post, in the hope of getting a direct answer, can someone recommend a good omnidirectional microphone to purchase?

I am feeling the squeeze of time, and realise that I must purchase in the next few hours in anticipation of the microphone arriving by Tuesday.

Thank you to everyone who has offered their expertise. It's been a fascinating weekend in which I have only dipped a toe into the world of audio recording. I will continue to learn before and after the event, as this is a fascinating and important aspect of video that I wish to explore and improve further.

Thanks again!

Re: Urgent Help: Advice Recording a Choir (16 Members) in a Cathedral 9 Second Echo
 

There are many good omnidirectional microphones. But the possibilities are dramatically reduced by your logistics of delivery time and who your possible vendors are.

Renting is not a waste of money. You can get far more high-end gear by renting based on the immediate need. Especially if for a type of production you rarely do.

Not clear what is the fascination with omnidirectional mics? I almost never use them, and they will be more fiddly to deploy in that kind of space, IME.

Re: Urgent Help: Advice Recording a Choir (16 Members) in a Cathedral 9 Second Echo
 

Do you think a caridoid would work better? It was just a recommendation to use an omnidirectional microphone in this thread.

True... but I would prefer to purchase if I can get a very good sounding mic for around £5-700. Even if it's not an application that I will use regularly, it is still an extra audio tool in my kit compared to shipping back an audio tool to a company.

Would you advise just picking up the Rode NT4? Do you think it would serve well as a solo mic setup if I raise it to three metres as previously discussed?

Re: Urgent Help: Advice Recording a Choir (16 Members) in a Cathedral 9 Second Echo
 

Renting lets you try different microphones to see which ones you should buy. Your stated budget doesn't support buying a set of high quality microphones. Therefore, rather than wasting money on a less than ideal asset I would rent a high end pair of cardioids and set them up in one of the standard stereo configurations. Save your money for when you can afford great microphones.

I also think you'd get decent results with your COS-11, so no disagreement with Bruce's suggestion. There are many ways to accomplish a task and everything comes with tradeoffs.

Re: Urgent Help: Advice Recording a Choir (16 Members) in a Cathedral 9 Second Echo
 

Thanks Jim. I was just wary that I have not done stereo before.

I'll look into renting. Thanks, but how much do you need to spend to get 'great'?

Re: Urgent Help: Advice Recording a Choir (16 Members) in a Cathedral 9 Second Echo
 

Craig,

I just read this whole thing. You are talking to some very knowledgeable people here. I am not going to make a mic recommendation your looking for, they know more than me about that.

There is one thing I feel very strongly about that has not been said enough. No matter what you do there is only one place that Zoom H4 can go. That is in your HANDS. You are using it as your mixer and your recorder. You will also be monitoring it. Having it taped to a stand someplace will not work. You need to have total control of it. This is not a set it and forget it situation. Everyone agrees monitoring is critical, what good will it do you if you can't adjust what you hear?

Kind Regards,

Steve

Re: Urgent Help: Advice Recording a Choir (16 Members) in a Cathedral 9 Second Echo
 

I would be wary of using an omnidirectional mic in such a humongous space with such a remarkably long reverb time. Omnis are nice when used in more conventional spaces with reasonable reverb times. But a space that huge, and with NO AUDIENCE to soak up some of the sound will be very challenging. You need to get a decent coverage of all the singers without letting in an undue amount of the ambient reverberation. That would be very difficult to do with omni microphones, IME. At least directional microphones will do their job to control the direct/ambient ratio.

I don't think you would be disappointed with a Rode NT4. Thomann has a "B-stock" unit for sale at a reduced price, but with full factory warranty. I regularly buy "B-stock" and demo and refurbished gear to stretch my budget and I have never been "stung".

Re: Urgent Help: Advice Recording a Choir (16 Members) in a Cathedral 9 Second Echo
 

Thanks for your input, as always, Steve!

I can sense their knowledge very clearly with how much they know! :) I am really appreciative of their time... it's just hard knowing the right decision, when I often research projects for months.

I'll be sure to keep the H5 with me! :) I just need to make a decision in the next couple of hours, which is quite frustrating from my side, as I have many good opinions to choose from, but I'm no clearer as to what to do.

I like the sound of the Rode nt4... and using a COS 11D alongside it... that way, I'll have a stereo recording and a mono recording. It's not breaking the bank and I can consider buying better mics down the road.

Alternatively, I'm going to have to spend a similar amount renting some mics that I will likely find harder to use.

Re: Urgent Help: Advice Recording a Choir (16 Members) in a Cathedral 9 Second Echo
 

I have seen situations where rugs (or even "moving pads") are put down on the hard floor to control at least some of the NEAR reflections in a large, reverberant space like that.

Note also that if it is a perfect hemisphere, you probably want to avoid the exact CENTER. I have worked in some similar situations where sound is FOCUSED right at the center and produces an extremely distorted "soundscape". I would avoid putting the choir or the microphone within 1-2m of the center.

Re: Urgent Help: Advice Recording a Choir (16 Members) in a Cathedral 9 Second Echo
 

Makes sense.

Thanks. Is Thomann UK based though? As their website ends .de? I need the mic by Tuesday. *EDIT* 3-4 working days. I can find the NT4 in stock in other UK based stores though! :)

Also, if I place the NT4 3m up, and also try it lower down in front of the conductor, do I have a good chance of capturing decent audio?

I realise that a lot of people have stated that I should stay away from the X Y configuration, as what you get, you get, but I think with my expertise (or lack of) it might be a good idea for me.

I'll consider doing the same, and avoiding the latter. As far as I'm aware, it's in front of the altar.... so I'm hoping it's not near the center.

Here's a proper recording of the venue, which I think has been completed by a broadcasting company:

Re: Urgent Help: Advice Recording a Choir (16 Members) in a Cathedral 9 Second Echo
 

If you have a rental place nearby I agree with Jim renting is the best option, I think you are investing in audio now for the wrong reason which is for that one client that only has a limited budget, I know you want to use that gear for future assignments as well but you are trying to gather too much options in too little time which can lead to a wrong purchase. If you rent you can use high end equipment and experiment and decide over time if a actual purchase is more beneficial then just renting the equipment each time, because different jobs may require different audio set-ups when you rent you can pick whatever gets the job done.

Re: Urgent Help: Advice Recording a Choir (16 Members) in a Cathedral 9 Second Echo
 

You'd be surprised how simple a mic arrangement experienced audio engineers will use. They may just a stereo pair strung in the right spot, One I know used to record an orchestra that way in their usual venue. Reverb is all part of the cathedral sound, you should use it.

Re: Urgent Help: Advice Recording a Choir (16 Members) in a Cathedral 9 Second Echo
 

I am not familiar with Thomann except what I see on their website. It seems like it is probably a German vendor, but I don't know how fast shipping is in the EC (and the UK being just across the channel). And I don't know any vendors in the UK, sorry.

Upon closer inspection of your original photo, it appears that they have a very large "choir loft" and a large "orchestra pit" in front of the choir. And it appears that they have something "flying" from horizontally suspended cables.

When I went with a ~150 voice men's chorus to the historic Biserica Neagră ("Black Church") in Brasov, Romania, I was able to use their permanently-installed hanging microphone array. Which was a good thing since there was no other way to get a microphone anywhere near the choir loft/organ which was up in a balcony some 20m above the main floor.

https://flic.kr/p/6hwp54

https://flic.kr/p/6hAyMy

Re: Urgent Help: Advice Recording a Choir (16 Members) in a Cathedral 9 Second Echo
 

True Noa... I just don't know if the mics I get I'll be able to use to their full potential, whereas if I buy a Rode NT4, I'll be able to use that for weddings too.

I'm sure that you're right! I'll see what audio I can retrieve, and then how I can mix it together. If I get sound that is decent, I will be very pleased.

By the sounds of it, no microphones will be made available to me. I will just opt for the mic behind the conductor and in front and see which works best. I haven't had a response from the client today, so will see what they respond with. I'll definitely see if they have access to that though, but with nobody manning it, I don't know what the result will be... or how I will even work them! :)

Re: Urgent Help: Advice Recording a Choir (16 Members) in a Cathedral 9 Second Echo
 

Examples of cardioids that would serve you well and retain their value over time:

Sennheiser MKH8040 or MKH 40
Schoeps CMC 6 + MK4

DPA and Neumann have some options as well.

Re: Urgent Help: Advice Recording a Choir (16 Members) in a Cathedral 9 Second Echo
 

I can get the Sennheiser MKH 8040 for £789... I could afford that.

The description for it sounds perfect for the use as well, with it being suited to less than optimal recordings.

The MKH40 is just under £1000.

If I had the MKH8040, could I position that nicely at the points discussed (high up 3m or in front of the conductor)?

Re: Urgent Help: Advice Recording a Choir (16 Members) in a Cathedral 9 Second Echo
 

+1 on renting this time. Your out of time to make an educated purchase decision. We could all debate the "which one is best" thing for another 100 posts and still not reach a consensus. At one point you were considering two Shure instrument mics. Not the best choice for this job and a very poor investment for future use.

Throwing money into a high end purchase is not the solution. They have even told you how to do it with what you have. I don't see any reason why you will not be able to pull this off to a reasonable level of quality. You have the rehearsal to get the bugs out. That means everything. And don't worry about the small size of your lavs, that is the least of considerations. And choir people are used to small capsules hanging over them anyway.

You have at least four recorders I know of. Place them strategically around the room as suggested. Make your direct recording of the choir and you will be able to come up with an acceptable mix.

Also, if you plan on using the X/Y mic on the H5 as another backup recording it can't be literally in your hands at that point, it is very sensitive to handling noise, you need it mounted on a tripod in front of you. It has a 1/4 20 lug for that. You will be able to make adjustments and not make noise that way.

Good Luck Craig!

Steve

Re: Urgent Help: Advice Recording a Choir (16 Members) in a Cathedral 9 Second Echo
 

They put that choir up behind the altar in a rather smaller space. That is the traditional "cathedral placement" where they have two rows of choristers facing each other. Do you think that is their intent?

Notice in the video at 3:25 what appears to be a Schoeps Colette-series microphone head mounted on the end of an extension tube.

Microphone Capsules - SCHOEPS.de
Colette Tubes - SCHOEPS.de

That is VERY CLOSE micing. I have to believe that it is a "spot mic" for a soloist rather than the general chorus pickup. OTOH, at 4:20 we hear some unusually loud page-turning noises which suggests quite close mic placement.

I have loved that Berlioz "Shepherd's Farewell" since I sang it back 42 years ago with a small choir.
http://www.rcrowley.com/scholacantor...20Farewell.mp3

Re: Urgent Help: Advice Recording a Choir (16 Members) in a Cathedral 9 Second Echo
 

Hmmm OK! I was advised on the Sennheiser 8040 and 40-P48 though, and they look like good investments?

Cheers Steve!

Thankfully not. Their intent is to place themselves in a semi-circle, which I believe will be with two rows of 8. It's not going to be like the film itself, but it is a good example of what the room is like and how the audio will sound.

Man, that's some impressive investigatory work, Richard! Thanks! I don't believe that I will be expected to unravel such a recording, nor would I expect the audio to be anywhere near this level as is obvious at this moment.

Thanks for all your help, though!

I guess what it's come down to are the following options:

1. Keep my gear, use 11Ds on the position described on the light stand.

2. Buy a Rode NT4, use an 11D as a back up.

3. Buy a Sennheiser MKH 8040 and use the 11D as a back up.

4. Try to find a way to converse with a rental company tomorrow, even though I am working and won't find an easy way to access a phone. Then hope that I can get a mic delivered that is optimal for the recording at hand. I dislike this option, as I'd like to have a cordioid mic in my arsenal.

What would everyone do in my position?

Re: Urgent Help: Advice Recording a Choir (16 Members) in a Cathedral 9 Second Echo
 

Those cardioids are usually used in pairs so you would buy 2 of the MKH 8040s. But before I spent that much money I would rent either a pair of those or a pair of MKH40s which are going to have a similar sound. Then I would buy only if I knew I was going to have plenty of opportunities to put them to work. I'm looking at it more from a business perspective and try to be conservative with capital.

Re: Urgent Help: Advice Recording a Choir (16 Members) in a Cathedral 9 Second Echo
 

That's a no! Wouldn't one work just as well in the proposed way???

I realise that renting would be right from a business perspective, but I'm struggling to rent as I cannot contact a company tomorrow until late afternoon, and by then, it may be too late.

Maybe the NT4 and 11D is the way to go!

Re: Urgent Help: Advice Recording a Choir (16 Members) in a Cathedral 9 Second Echo
 

"I want a cardiod mic in my kit"

Then I would save a thousand dollars and buy two Shure SM57s for $99.00 each

I know you really like the idea of spending for top shelf mics. But if you know the history of the SM57 & SM58 you would realize they are not really $99.00 mics. Everyone needs them in there kit. As I said before, you could hand one to Mick Jagger or Bono and they would not scoff at it. Virtually every big name in rock n roll has used a SM58. And you can find them at any local music store.

Steve

Re: Urgent Help: Advice Recording a Choir (16 Members) in a Cathedral 9 Second Echo
 

What about getting three of them, using a H6 to monitor all three in a left right and centre configuration?

Sounds like a plan! If this is better than the NT4 solution! :-)

Re: Urgent Help: Advice Recording a Choir (16 Members) in a Cathedral 9 Second Echo
 

Craig,

It might be worth trying but I don't want to send there. Those mics are work horses but far from perfect for this application. With a H6 you would be asking too much from the consumer pre amps. To get your sensitivity up high enough you would be introducing noise. They are vocal mics but designed to handle high SPL levels. I would want some other guys to chime in like Richard and Rick to see if they are a viable option at your distance? At some point you are going to need to invest in a high quality mixer with pre amps that can drive sensitivity up without noise. A $1,200.00 mic going into a consumer pre amp will still be noisy and not save you. This is about signal flow, not just mics.

You have the big guns of this audio forum helping you out here if they are still on this. Far better advice than I can give.

Steve

Re: Urgent Help: Advice Recording a Choir (16 Members) in a Cathedral 9 Second Echo
 

Craig,

Church "audio engineers" are often a member of the congregation that volunteer or get nominal pay for his services. My guess is he is paid something at that place and they are not even willing to contribute that. But....that is not your local corner church. Somewhere in that building is an equipment room filled with everything you need. Did you ask your contact if she will make their resources available to you? Behind door number one sits a gold mine....

Steve

Re: Urgent Help: Advice Recording a Choir (16 Members) in a Cathedral 9 Second Echo
 

Yes, I would use them to record Jagger or Bono. But I would never use them to record a choir in this situation.

I once got a VERY last-minute call to record a piano and string quintet. I had a portable recorder and phones in the car, but did not have time to drive back to get good mics. I recorded the performance with a pair of SM57s which I had in the car (left over from a PA gig). It was one of the worst recordings I ever made .. and that includes some pretty bad ones I made when I was still in high school. IMHO 57s are definitely not the right mic for this job.)

Re: Urgent Help: Advice Recording a Choir (16 Members) in a Cathedral 9 Second Echo
 

I can hardly think of a worse microphone to use for that kind of recording than a Shure SM57/58. If you are a head-banging, heavy-metal rocker then the SM mics are the standard of the industry. But for this kind of distant, acoustic genre, nobody would use one of those old clunkers.

Re: Urgent Help: Advice Recording a Choir (16 Members) in a Cathedral 9 Second Echo
 

Listen to them, except the old clunker part, they still have a place in every general purpose kit, even today IMHO. But very true not for this gig ;-)

Craig, I don't think anyone will dispute this (but hey, you never know) When it comes to audio, I think in terms of signal flow. Again (we went here before) I think you are trying to compensate for a difficult situation by believing throwing a lot of money into a quality mic will fix a problem. Microphones come in so many types so you can find one with the characteristics to suite the job. Characteristics is more important than the price tag, within reason.

Basic signal flow in this case goes like this: Mic (analog) generates signal, a very low level electrical signal, cable, the path of the signal, H5 or H6, signal processing and recording device, serves as mixer/recorder in this case, mixer part is pre amp, gain/volume processing stage, then codec, A/D processing, analog to digital file processing. So even in your very simple mic to SD card process several things happen to the signal.

A signal processed by a cheap pre amp will be a poor quality signal even if it comes from a very expensive mic of the wrong type. Mics do not necessarily go up in sensitivity with price. Sensitivity is a character of type, not price.You need the right mic for this job. You have asked that question repeatedly. My vote would be the Rode NT4. But again, I am a hack compared to the other guys here providing advice!

Kind Regards,

Steve

Re: Urgent Help: Advice Recording a Choir (16 Members) in a Cathedral 9 Second Echo
 

Any other votes for an NT4?

Thanks everyone.

Re: Urgent Help: Advice Recording a Choir (16 Members) in a Cathedral 9 Second Echo
 

Five pages of responses all pretty well saying the same thing.

Recording in a cathedral for something that can be released as a professional sounding CD is not a beginners task. In fact, the recording equipment is not that much of an issue, but where is the monitoring location? Mic placement is EVERYTHING! Most people who do this kind of thing for recording or broadcast will find a vestry, or other space where they can set up speakers, and the use radios to guide the person near the choir to move the mics in/out, up/down, toe in or out. You can guarantee the best place is the worst place for video. For broadcast, the common method, for programmes like BBC songs of praise is to mime (sorry, lip-sync). If the performance needs recording in site, then it's done in the usual ugly style, then mics are removed and the video shot to playback. Venues that have live broadcasting often have flying points installed so you can fly the cluster on 3mm aircraft cable, opening up the floor, but this is sophisticated stuff.

Reverb time and reflections can completely mess up a recording, so the recordists need decent time with the choir to find the right locations for them and the mics. You cannot guess this. It's crazy. In fact, a few years ago I was involved in a UK exam where college kids needed to record poppy studio stuff AND natural recording techniques. They managed studio stuff well, and the church and cathedral stuff was dire! Usually a complete mess, because multiple arrival times and paths wreck clarity when you get it wrong.


You need monitoring and somebody skilled to get it set the recording kit set up, and time- lots of it.

If I were doing this I'd want three evenings with everyone, a decent and understanding choir master, and good management, because just getting a choir to not make any noise for six seconds after the last note is amazingly difficult, wrecking perfect takes. If visuals are critical they MUST be lip-synced. You cannot listen critically to the music, ready to stop it if you are also watching a screen.

My advice is that you are being unrealistic for a first attempt at audio of this nature. It's very complex stuff if you want clarity. Easy to get mud!

Re: Urgent Help: Advice Recording a Choir (16 Members) in a Cathedral 9 Second Echo
 

I presume the budget for the whole video is the £500 you mentioned and as it is a promo I would be keeping it simple.

OK you can record the choir and the NT4 would be fine but you will need to place it about 8 feet in front of the choir and it will be in shot but that may be fine for a promo. Personally I would just rig my Sony ECM- MS-957 mic and record it to my minidisc / marantz recorder or feed it to two tracks of my camera.

Another alternative is to just buy one of those small Zoom or Tascam recorders with built in mic's and place it on a mic stand central and 8 feet from the choir. You have £500 here so we are not talking about a Radio 3 production so they get what they are given. You will also need to sync up the stereo audio with your camera mic scratch track but this way at least you can just set the recorder running and concentrate on the visuals. Record a rehearsal and listen to what is the best place to have the mic/recorder. You will also need to set the levels but this should be possible in rehearsal too and you will need to have the low cut filter on if it has one or add one in the edit to stop external traffic rumble.

You will need to monitor what you are recording and as Paul has said the critical element is actually getting a useable audio track that reflects the quality of their performance. That also includes the end as everyone needs to be quiet as the reverb tails off but hey this is a promo so will the end actually feature?

We did Opera Singer Jessie Norman at Durham Cathedral many years ago for Highway and as the reverb was tailing off someone came in through the door and it slammed shut, she refused to do another take so we had to stitch some reverb on in post.

One other way round this is to just record the choir visually with a scratch audio track and then when the final CD is produced cut the pictures to the sound track that is on the CD.

We used to do this all the time at Tyne Tees on The Tube and we did a Tina Turner video this way as she was in the studio recording the theme to Mad Max Thunderdome months before the film or CD was released so all we did was then manually piece together the visuals to match the final music track.

I would guess the choir will generally sing the pieces at roughly the same speed but you will bve amazed how clever editing can cover a multitude of lip syncing and besides there are 16 of them so not all of them will be in perfect lip sync.

Besides you may be able to get a better promo by being arty with the pictures and on most promo's lip sync is not the primary critical visual element as some artists just want to look good for their public.

Re: Urgent Help: Advice Recording a Choir (16 Members) in a Cathedral 9 Second Echo
 

The 57 & 58 are great mics for sure (and pretty much indestructible), and countless hit records were recorded with a '57 on snare and/or guitar amp. Everyone should have a few.
That said, it would NOT be my first choice for a choir either. If I were on a low budget. I'd probably use a decent portable recorder with internal mics. The Sony PCM D50 comes to mind. The onboard mics are also per-positioned to avoid phase issues.

Re: Urgent Help: Advice Recording a Choir (16 Members) in a Cathedral 9 Second Echo
 

Thanks everyone. Amazingly, your advice has worked - the client has hired an audio engineer. I explained that I had been discussing this with a multitude of audio engineers and explained that you felt this would be a step too far. I said my audio will likely be OK, but she would be much better served by an audio engineer.

I'm really pleased in a way, but also quite embarrassed to have asked you a thousand questions all weekend. I am really thankful to everyone for your advice and I have learnt a lot from this experience. My knowledge of microphones and pick up patterns has vastly improved and this is definitely an area that I find to be most interesting. I can't thank everyone enough for your time, and would like to apologise if you now see your posts as a waste of time - it hasn't been at all (for me). I think I have learned a lot.

That said, one final question: Will I be able to sync the audio with Plural Eyes or should I buy a clapboard?

Thanks everyone!!!

Re: Urgent Help: Advice Recording a Choir (16 Members) in a Cathedral 9 Second Echo
 

Your doing a multi cam shoot and recording external audio without jamming time code. I would not do it without my slate. Don't rely on software alone and the slate marks will help plural eyes and YOU to check for sync.

Good luck Craig, the guys here are very generous with sharing their knowledge. I am sure no one feels rejected, thats not what this is about. I am glad your going to get the help you need to make this a positive learning experience.

Steve

Re: Urgent Help: Advice Recording a Choir (16 Members) in a Cathedral 9 Second Echo
 

Buy a clapperboard app for your phone or i-pad if you have one.

Good to hear they took advice and the audio will be sorted by someone else.

Re: Urgent Help: Advice Recording a Choir (16 Members) in a Cathedral 9 Second Echo
 

Thanks Steve. I've never used a slate before, but I am sure it's as simple as it sounds when I've watched videos about it on YouTube.

My understanding is that you position the slate in front of your main camera, with all of the details of in this shoot, the song you are recording and the camera that you're looking at. Then when you slap the clapper down, the other two-three cameras for this shoot will know that the clapper happened at that moment.

As I'll be shooting DSLR, I'll likely stop the recordings after each song. That way, each song has its own file.

Sound like the right setup?

Thanks Steve. I am very excited to shoot in the cathedral, and if the audio engineer can work wonders and make a good-sounding recording, then I'll be doing everything I can to get some great shots.

Following the discussions here, my plans for cameras are as follows:

a) GoPro with clamp (just bought) for the stand in front of the conductor
b) A camera close to front and centre (likely the GH4), shooting 4K for pans and punch ins in post.
c) A GH3 on a slider on the floor, facing up towards the choir and exposing the ceiling with a wide.
d) An AX100 in 4K from a side angle, left as a static for the same reasons as the GH4.

Using 2 4K streams, and getting as many interesting shots as I can with my slider could create an interesting visual.

Then I'm also hoping to get some great venue shots, both of the interior and exterior, where I may be able to fade away to different cutaway shots. Whatever I can basically to make this a great film.

The two songs are as follows:

If ye love me - Tallis (2 mins 5 seconds)
Christus factus est - Bruckner (6 mins 7 seconds)

I'll be looking up the meaning behind these songs, so that I can hopefully pair some other visuals to the songs themselves to tell the story (presuming there is one) within the cathedral itself.

I'll be sure to post the video once it's finished.

Thanks Gary, do you find these work as quickly as a plastic clapperboard?

Thanks again for all of the advice...