Re: Bought a RODE videomic!
 

Michael Any mic you use is limited to about 3 feet for dialogue. You're not supposed to be picking up people n a wedding from 10 feet away. You need to get a lav on them. A rode VideoMic is a decent beginner mic, but even with a 1,000.00 mic you will get bad results if you are not right up on them. A shotgun mic is to be used more like within 12" - 18" from the mouth ideally. The further away you get, the more ambient sound you pick up. It's just physics. If there is someone between you and your subject, you will pck up that person louder than your subject. For weddings you need a couple of lavs, a mic on every camera, and possibly a feed from the PA to get what the officiant is saying. I usually put a lavon the groom, lav on the officiant, and get a board feed. then I'm covered.

Sorry money is tight but there is no fix for too few mics other than buying more mics. You gotta pay to play...

Re: Bought a RODE videomic!
 

Thanks for that.
I aim to be unobtruseive! I am a beginner really.. done 4 weddings only one paid but at mates rates lol! Ive got a 2nd xm2 on its way so with 2 cameras i wanna make some cash. (i wouldnt dare charge people good money with one cam!)
Folks round here are charging min £650 and using one camera! I really gont get it! With one cam your gonna have to cut it up so much whereas with.. ideally 3 cameras you can do full length and not go dull....
However audio... in 2 of the weddings i was happy with onboard audio (minus motor noise in quiet moments) ... and picking up everything. I managed to hide away behind a pillow... and even a baby cry fitted in so well.. as the speaker was reading from bible about a voice crying at the same time!
But.. on one of them.. yea many coughs and multiple children screams people yawning and picking noses... it was horrible.
The idea of sticking a mic on groom does not appeal to me i want minimum fuss.. and the twice ive asked hot a hook up to the mixing dest (minidisk) the priest and organ player looked terrified!

Im thinkin maybe a shotgun mic plugged into a mini disk and put on a stand next to the mic stand in the bride/ groom area... And a good quality stereo mic that will fit on the front camera that is not so directional? Just to get rid of motor hum?
As for the rear camera maybe ill just leave it with onboard sound... as back up for things going wrong at front?
I did not realise that shotgun mics had to be so close to the subject i thought 6 to 15 feet would be fine.

Re: Bought a RODE videomic!
 

If your budget allows, look into a wireless setup. I know you said you want to be unobtrusive but going with the set up you described with a stand mic will result in voices that trail away or become inaudible as the bride and groom turn back and forth or just turn their head to talk.

As a general rule the groom tends to be taller and clipping a mic on his sternum area will have the bride talking right at it when they are facing each other and capturing their voices during the vows to me is paramount. Not hearing the vows in the final product can be quite.......uncomfortable.

As far as leaving the onboard mic running on the second camera at the rear, all you will capture is the ambient noise you are trying to eliminate and will be little to no help "filling in" where the front mic you described was lacking.

I own the Rode SVM (Stereo video Mic) and feel it is a great value. I like the sound and it would be a better "front" mic in your set up, and handles off-axis sound better, but you would still be at the whim of the changing levels. Good luck!

Re: Bought a RODE videomic!
 

Low-Z mic cable is twisted pair and it is shielded. Cat 5 cable is not shielded.

You can pick up two kinds of electrical noise: electromagnetically induced (typically hum) and electrostatically induced (typically buzz, clicks, pops, RF noise). Shielding helps against both noise types, especially if the circuit is not perfectly balanced, and especially at higher frequencies (such as RF), and especially at low levels such as mic level. The physical dimension of the cable is a very small fraction of a wavelength at low hum frequencies like 60 Hz, but becomes closer to a wavelength as the frequency goes up. By the time you're at high audio frequencies, or low RF range, the twist will provide less and less immunity against noise pickup; therefore shielding becomes more important.

For example, telephone landlines use twisted pair unshielded wire, that can run for many miles without significant hum problems. (Of course telephones don't reproduce much below 300 Hz, so hum would be rolled off by the telephone electronics.) Broadcasters used to use wire pairs in the same telephone cables, to transport analog audio from the studio to the transmitter site. Those broadcast circuits were sharply bandpassed at 15kHz or lower, and transformer balanced at both ends. Also, those broadcast lines were run at a fairly high level (more or less 0 dBm). At those levels, and with the phone company having control over line balance, noise was not a terrible problem. (Still, making S/N of -60dB was sometimes a challenge.)

Running mic level, which will be many dB lower in level, without any shielding, will likely be plagued with noise pickup... especially with longer cable runs, or with direct op-amp inputs that don't have a transformer to protect against high-frequency common-mode noise.

Also, good mic line, like Belden 8412, is typically 20ga. Cat 5 is a much smaller wire size, so the electrical resistance is much higher. That means Cat 5 will have more signal loss with really long cable runs.

Re: Bought a RODE videomic!
 

(david)
Thanks mate.. after spending hours reading etc i too have come to conclusion that the rode stereo mic might be best option for the front camera.
To be fair ive never missed any speech at a wedding. The fact that they come through a tannoy helps.. and if it werent for motor noise the xm2 onboard mic would be crackin! I have used audio from rear camera once due to a problem with tape ravel on my other tape.. i got away with it okay using a fade and there was not any echo or anything.. i thought there was at one point but only as audio had gone out of sync!
I mean i wanna step up the quality of my audio if im gonna start charging people but i notice as you do this there are more technical elements to worry about! Rather than hitting auto sound level and worrying more about being in right place at the right time!

So yea i think ill keep an eye on the rhode stereo mike and await for a bargain.
I think i had this fantasy that i could stick a shotgun mic on and zoom it to where i want 15 to 25 foot away and just kinda fade between other 'pick up everything' audio sources at opportune moments.. ie i want to hear everything if theres a laugh or a hand clap or cheer.. ner mind plod on!

Re: Bought a RODE videomic!
 

Michael, the Rode Videomic is an amazing tool but does have its limits. For weddings I use the following audio setup;

1. 1 Rode NTG-2 shotgun mic on the handheld / steadicam camera (this camera is up front near the bride & groom for the vows so if the wireless audio has issues it usually has good audio)

2. 1 Rode Videomic on my B roll camera wihich is set up as a fixed wide shot at rear of venue.

3. UHF wireless mic(s). Usually one on the officiant or one on the officiant & one on the groom or one on the officiant and one placed near the PA system loudspeaker.

I just bought a little Kodak Zi8 pocket cam to use as a second 'B" cam. I plan on hooking the Rode Videomic up to it with the camera at the front on a tripod facing the audience and the Rode mounted backwards facing where the bridal party will be. This will be used if we need to intercut an audience shot and for yet another audio source. I will be buying the new Rode Videomic Pro to go on my other B roll camera.

If the venue has a good PA system the Rode Video mic can do an amazing job of catpuring the audio. I had an outdoor wedding where the music was recordered music played by the DJ from the reception building a good 75 feet away. He had his speaker(s) pointed toward the ceremony. I thought the sound would be terrible but the Videomic mounted on my B cam well at the back of the audience and about 90 degrees from the speakers picked up the audio great. We then intercut to the audio from the Rode NTG-2 shotgun mic on our handheld for the vows as the minister kept touching the wireless lav and causingt horrible noise.

Love the Rode Videomic! Great investment.

Re: Bought a RODE videomic!
 

Good Morning,

Yes, the rode mic is an amazing value for the investment.

I use one on my B roll camera, I use an AT 897 on my xlh1 or xl2. I use a wireless on the groom.

If the sound mixer at the church is a good one, you can run from that directly into a camera or a recorder.

Another option would be to use a zoom h1 up at he front for the vows, they cost all of 100 dolalrs.

The kodak has questionable quality in my book, so much of the video looks burnt from them and the flip. With some color correction and very short clips you might get away with it.

Back to the rode video mic, it gives better sound than some other much more expensive mics!!


enjoy,

Re: Bought a RODE videomic!
 

i wanted 2 mics... and couldnt afford the rode! After much thought i went for the much cheaper audio technica versions.. a shotgun and a stereo. The stereo was hopeless.. ive sent it back and am probably gonna get another matching one... see my review...
i think its prob just as good as rode.. but a lot cheaper! Only thing is the rode now comes with an isolating shoe! Very nice!

YouTube - ‪Audio Technica ATR 6250 & ATR62600 videomike review‬‏

Re: Bought a RODE videomic!
 

which AT stereo mic and why was it hopeless?

Regards,

Ty Ford

Re: Bought a RODE videomic!
 

YouTube - ‪Audio Technica ATR 6250 & ATR62600 videomike review‬‏

see vid above... the atr6250... actually it sounds lot better after uploading to u tube... bt was basically no better than my onboard... the mic is supposed to be dual cardioid.. but it basically picks up everything.. possibly because the 2 speakers are on the side of the mic.. with an extra 'vent' on the front between the 2 side mics. I think they have used slightly lower quality mics than the atr 6550... or it may just be the fact that the 6550 is a shotgun... ive now at last realised the lack of necessity for a stereo mic.... (der!) id rather have 2 mono shotguns any day.

Re: Bought a RODE videomic!
 

Well you get what you pay for and if you choose poorly there, that's all you get.:)

AT makes better stereo mics, if, in fact, that's the best array for the job,

I think you mean diaphragms, not "speaker" in the mic itself.

What were your expectations of this mic? What were you trying to do?

Regards,

Ty Ford

Re: Bought a RODE videomic!
 

im just after better sound options than my onboard! I believe i have chosen wisely not poorly?! I sent the stereo mic back.. so i have a credit waiting, im looking at getting an identical shotgun to the one i have. Pound for pound i see no better alternative.... i believe the audo seems just as good as the rode reviews ive seen....
Id love to see more simple reviews about..
I think the limitation is the sweet spot.. im supposing more expensive mics.. ie 1000 plus.. have a larger 'sweet' spot, and a lot more sound rejection.

Re: Bought a RODE videomic!
 

The larger the "sweet spot" the more unwanted sound you get. If you are just doing home movies then that 50.00 shotgun will be good for better dialogue pickup than your on-board mics. Dialogue should be recorded in mono. Stereo is good for music and ambient stuff like a city street sounds, or out in nature etc. If people talking is the focus, then a mono mic is the way. But really you need to be in the 250.00 and above range if you are the slightest bit serious. Rode NTG-2 is an amazing starter shotgun.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that the Rode VideoMic and VideoMic Pro are great consumer mics with the same capsule as it's professional sibling the NTG-2. All sound great and will beat the pants off of that ATR6550.

Re: Bought a RODE videomic!
 

Michael,

You made a comment in an earlier post in this thread about wanting to "zoom" a shotgun.

Unfortunately, shotguns (nor any other mic) can zoom like a lens. Physics of sound is a different breed of cat. Mic has to be physically close to work well for dialogue.

Also, shotguns indoors can be a less than great solution if they are not right up close to what you're recording. They WILL pick up room reverb from the side. And if you get them too close they will over-emphasize lower frequencies. Great for male voices if you want them to sound like the guy is on steroids, but maybe less flattering for female voices.

Re expensive mics, I don't think "sweet spot" has much to do with price - each mic's maker usually provides a chart showing sensitivity as a function of angle and frequency - this is pretty much the whole story.and should tell you most of what you need to know.

Expensive mics are usually more accurate/consistent transducers, have lower noise and better controlled frequency response etc as well as often improved sensitivity. And better quality overall.

Dialogue does not usually put extreme technical demands on a microphone compared to something like a classical recording so you can usually find quite good mic's at quite reasonable prices - but you do have to pay attention to getting the right type of mic for the job.

Re: Bought a RODE videomic!
 

yea your right jim.. the 'zoom' function on the ATR 6550 is prettey pointless... yes it does what it says but just adds hiss.. and amplifies everything.. ie boosts the volume.
On its normal mode im happy with the mic.. notably the reduction in hiss/camera noise... and the clarity.

n chad.. By sweet spot.. what i mean is.. hear my voice over on the beginning of the vid i made.. my voice isnt the best but im happy with this. If you were to compare it to a recording with a normal mike.. my voice sounds a lot better!

But this sweet spot... its maybe 2 to 6 inches! 4 to 8 inches on tele mode!

Obviously your right.. you need different mics for different jobs... and lav mics.. mind i did hear that in a lot of hollywood stuff... they pull in the actors afterwards and get them to narate in a studio setting and re do all the audio!

n chad yea you got me thinkin about the stereo.. i do like to take a lot of outdoor shots etc, (building a library for future works) My main enemy is always... camera noise! (and hiss!) If im filming a building or a street or a reservoir/lake... etc... i dont want hiss and motor noise yet it aint always gonna be convinient to set up a mike stand and a mini disk for audio! I dont have phantom power/xlr either on the xm2.. so the choices are limited. I think the 6550 is the right one for now.. in the future id like a quality radio transmitter (the fm one i have.. adds hiss)... and to look at lav mikes.. there are so many available and i simply dont understand (or know wether to believe) the data the manufacturers provide. There was a particular senheiser mike.. bout 300 quid... didnt sound half as good as the one i have or the rode video mike.. i cant remember the specific comments but the reviewers were saying it was very dissapointing.

Re: Bought a RODE videomic!
 

Hello again Michael

Aha - I think now I have better idea of what you're referring to. Let me guess - when you say the mic makes you sound better than your normal voice, do you mean that it makes it sound more full and resonant? If you step back a bit from the mic, does your voice sound thinner (or more normal)

If so this is the famous (or infamous, depending on your point of view) proximity effect - frequency response changing with distance from source and emphasizing lower frequencies up close. Works great for guys but maybe not so flattering for girls. At least it works great for guys when up close but if distance to mic changes much the quality of the voice will change as well, which can be a less than great thing.

Re: Bought a RODE videomic!
 

yip thats exactly it, thanks. I knew my voice was 'good enough' for voice overs after having a brief play at a studio (with a condenser mic) many years ago.. but on all my home recordings its been dreadfull! Even with a duvet over my head lol! Just as you say a lack of deep tones. And also various hiss. I have a couple of normal singing mics.. fine.. but you need em so close to mouth for the 'sweet' spot... probably because they are for singing not talking!

But with this mic im happy to use it for voice overs and without using a sound room or duvet over head!

And maybe your right about girls!.. i aint had it out much but filmed some girls singing... just a freebie... they sounded awfull although they did in real life, the pa system seemed to play their electronical music sounds really well just not the vocals. Unfortunately i botched the whole job.. didnt change the batteries on front camera stereo mic.. and managed to press STOP on my handheld camera right at beginning of their final and best song :-(
Im learning... never again! It was my first outdoor thing... people standing infront of cameras, big silly piece of metal down centre of stage. Ill always use a seperate sound souce on any live event and use onboard mic for back up. When theres a lot going on sound wise the motor noise etc is less noticeable.