Composing Orchestral Music
 

Hi,

Im wanting to find some software which will allow me to compose an orchestral soundtrack for my short film. By this, I mean that I want all the instruments to be digital, and manipulated on may computer.

Im after traditional, life-like orchestral sounds (violins, drums, woodwind etc). I can read music moderately, though would prefer an interface like Reason, which doesnt require me to score using musical notation.

Does anyone know of software such as this?


Thanks

Ditto
 

I'm interested in this too. I ve seen various programs with loops to work with like Acid and Audition, but this seems more like what is needed.

Site with Loops Seens to be a lot of them
 

Here is just one of many sites that has orchestral loops:

http://www.acidmusicloops.com/orches...cid_loops.html

You don't say whether you're on the Mac or PC. On the Mac Garageband is a surprisingly powerful - and fun - program for this. If you have any musical background then hook up a MIDI keyboard and suddenly you become a whole orchestra! It also works with loops but I haven't done much with those.

http://www.apple.com/ilife/garageband/

Steinberg and PropellerHeads also have loop based and midi sequencing software with libraries of orchestral instruments. To see just how good they can get, go to Steinberg's website and download their sample audio clips of their concert grand piano synthesizer "The Grand."

Another option is the SonicFire software and royalty free librariy collections from SmartSound. They have music in a wide variety of styles, including classical. The beauty of this system is that it can be shortened or lengthened at will, changed in tempo, key or mood, and basically "re-composed" on the fly in the SonicFire program without having to know a lot about music theory or having performance skills etc

In addition to Acid Loops (PC), Garage Band and SOuntrack (Mac), Apple now has Soundtrack Pro which can also use loops from Acid.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Thanks for the input. Im on PC btw.

I dont think I really just want to mix a bunch of loops together. I want control over how every note is played, so I can actually compose my own music.

I actually have an old version of Reason, before it came with Orkester. Does anyone know where I could get free symphonic/orchestra samples?

Thanks

http://www.ntonyx.com/sf_f.htm
http://www.soundfonts.it/
http://linux-sound.org/sounds.html
http://www.sseyo.com/showcase/demos/soundfonts.html
http://www.sonicimplants.com/
http://www.personalcopy.com/sfarkfonts1.htm
http://www.glasstrax.com/download/soundfonts.html

Lots of great orchestral soundfonts out there. Additionally, ACID has several libraries recorded from the Moscow Symphony that are incredible. I hear them used in major commercial works all the time.
Garageband ROCKS! Soundtrack Pro is kinda lame. Soundtrack was better in terms of usability and user friendliness. Apple would do better to blow away Soundtrack, just have a high and low value version of GarageBand, IMO.

Garage Band has virtual instruments. You need a MIDI keyboard to play them. Oh, and the chops.

Ty Ford

I do my recording in Steinberg Nuendo. Hypersonic(Steinberg) is real nice for instrumentation and orchestration...there aren't millions of sounds, but it's real intuitive and easy to use.I also use emu proteus x, which has more sounds, but is harder to use. Then there's my Roalnd 2080,Korg M1......And you have to either play the parts in through a midi keyboard, or with the pencil tool.
I sometimes use Acid for percussion and wierd stuff, but haven't heard the acid orchestral loops. Acid is a wonderfull tool also.
Bruce Yarock

BiaB
 

Band In A Box is wonderful. I am not sure of the price, since I bought the first of my two copies several years ago, and my most recent one was donated to a high-school film program, but the program is a wonder. It actually composes music based on several algorithms, and every piece is original and royalty free. It will also generate chord progressions in any of several hundred styles, and either write a lead and melody, or permit you to enter the notes - writing your own melodies. It will also allow you to write the meoldy, and then generate chords around it.

Once you get the sounds you like from the links DSE provided, and assuming you have a MIDI keyboard, you should record and assemble the tracks with a multitrack MIDI editor like Cubase or Sonar. I've heard of, but never used Propellarhead's Reason -- maybe it's the same thing. If you are looking for sounds that are better than the free stuff and are really hardcore about this stuff, look at something like the PMI Symphonic Orchestra collection (expensive).

Band In A Box link
 

You can go to http://www.pgmusic.com/ and read about it.

thanks very much for all ur input, it was very helpful. presently im mucking around with my old version of Reason which has I found has some (though limited) orchestral sounds. Its actually going ok..its a bit quirky sounding but my short film is quirky anyway! Maybe ill post my results once Ive done a bit more - this is my first score ever.

Band In Box
 

Roy:

I've messed around with a version of Band in A Box years ago, and remember it doing a lot of what you indicate. I'm no musical genious, and it was fun fooling around with a melody and adding instruments, and then letting the program run and provide its version with chords and all. But I never thought it could get good enough for a decent soundtrack. Do you have some examples we could hear?

Chris Barcellos

If you are a passive musician - meaning that you know what you like to hear, but have no musical abilities - then Musigenesis (http://www.musigenesis.com/) can be a posibility.

The programs generates music, and lets you choose the bits you like. Based on your selections the program will elvolve the music further to your taste.

I've tried it, but you have to have plenty of time and patience in order to get good results. Acid was faster for me. But Musigenesis can get you some music with a sort of - well marsian feeling to it.

So I use it when I need music that sounds different

You might want to take a look at Garritan Personal Orchestra. It has individual samples of an entire orchestra in single and ensemble modes (both wet and dry). This is a VSTi instrument that plugs into a multi-track application like ACID, Sonar, Cubase, etc. (I use it in ACID). I believe Reason is a closed system (no VST/VSTi support) so you’re going to be very limited with orchestral sounds by staying with that application.

~jr

Sorry, Chris...
 

I had several, but the old laptop (IBM) crashed and burned spectacularly - the little ninety-degree power connection, where the wall-wart adapter plugged into the main circuit board - shorted out. Poof. A crackle and awful silence. But BIAB is one heck of a program. My intention was to see if the MIDI files could be read by a sequencer with a better selection of sounds - the string and brass sounds were tinny and not accurate. But in checking out the site recently, I previewed the new Roland software synth and it sounds pretty darned good.

Personally I have a bit of a problem with programes like Musicgenius. Being a musician myself, it sort of seems like cheating to use a program which creates music - that said, im sure u have a lot of creative control, but i prefer the method of creating every note and having total control. Thanks for all the suggestions everyone, theve been very helpful...looks like i may have to move on from Reason *sigh*!

But that's the point, Josef!
 

BIAB doesn't replace musical talent. You can write as much of the real music as you want. For example, write a melody, then select a style - classical, bluegrass, whatever... (there are about 1500 styles if I remember correctly) ...and BIAB will supply all the backing you need - bass, drums, guitar, keyboards, orchestral, etc. - in that style, and around your melody.
It can also write a lead on the instrument of your choice (keyboards are best) that compliments your melody. It can also create harmonies in about a hundred different styles and voices.
You can write, in various notations, for every one of the voices supported by the program, up to and including a drum track with umpteen different sounds (I never bothered with it, because what the program came up with was cool).
In short, BIAB can be a great tool for any musician, whether gifted with ability or saddled by ineptitude.

I downloaded a trial of Band in a Box and played around with it a bit. I'm not certain of the quality though. I guess I could give it a shot since it's so cheap.

I'm in the same situation as many of you. I want to score my own soundtrack, but the choices out there are a bit overwhelming.

I've looked at Acid and Sound Forge... I'm not sure what the difference between the two is... I'm not exactly sure what they do.

I know Acid loops sounds, but do you have to buy the sounds that you loop?

I'd like to know what product for the PC is comparable to Garageband on a mac.

Sound Forge is a mastering/surgical audio tool, whereas ACID is like Garageband. In fact, GarageBand was entirely inspired by ACID. You get thousands of loops with ACID when you buy it, and you can literally find thousands more for free on the web, with around 6 million sounds available in various libraries. (I have a 2TB RAID of loops)
It's much easier than you'd think to create good music in ACID. Look for the "Instant ACID" book from Iacobus and John Rofrano for great tips on how to use it best.

How come no one has mentioned Fruity Loops? It's the best out there!

http://www.fruityloops.com/

Thanks Douglas... I've got a copy of your Vegas book in the mail ;)

Acid sounds like the way to go for me for now.

Josef, I've been asking this question myself lately and came up with Garritan Personal Orchestra as well. It can be plugged into a notation program like Sibelius or Overture to have exact-note playback, and the quality is phenomenal. You can get a copy online which includes Overture (unless you already have Sibelius or Overture to use it with) for about $250. I'd definately recommend checking it out.

Am I allowed to link to non-sponsored vendors here? If not, you can email me and I'll send you a link to a site where you can buy it. Or you can just Froogle for it yourself. Just make sure you get the version that comes with notation software if you need it (otherwise you're looking at another $200).

Hey,

I'm also interested in Garritan Personal Orchestra, I'm wondering if it works on cubase le, because an audio interface product I'm looking at comes bundled with it. Do you know guys know of any other similar vst packs like Garritan Personal Orchestra, is this the best one out there? or are there better ones?

Luke

There are better ones, if money is no object, but Garritan is by far the best bang for your buck. If you feel like going all out look for EastWest Quantum Leap Symphonic Orchestra. It comes in a variety of versions from Silver ($200) to Gold ($500) to Platinum ($1,500). Although Silver sounds good, I don't know that I'd recommend it because it doesn't have the die-out samples. Gold has those and more instruments as well. The advantage of Platinum is that it has even more instruments as well as three microphone placements for every instrument, allowing you to mix in surround sound if you so desire. (I think that's what it's for anyway.)

Most reviews I've read are pretty unanimous that Symphonic Orchestra is the best out there (it was actually specifically designed for writing/performing film scores), but I don't have the luxury of $700+ (since it doesn't include notation software) to spend on it.

EastWest's website is http://www.soundsonline.com/
Garritan Personal Orchestra is at http://www.garritan.com

I'll be checking out a few of these that I had not heard of before, but to this date, in my scoring work, I haven't found a sampled stuff I'm happy with.

The samples are great, but I can't control them in the same way a bow does (specifically strings).

One technique I'm working is layering some real strings over the sampled stuff.

I can't afford an orchestra, but I can afford a violinist or a chello player.

I get her my composition in advance. She comes in a multitracks along with it.

I haven't perfected this yet, but if you have access to a great strings player it may really help your track.

Also, one more library: Miroslav orchestra by ikmultimedia (www.ikmultimedia.com) Their samples sound pretty impressive.

Not sure how it compares to the others mentioned (garrett and eastwest)

I have the bosendorfer290 library from East West and it is amazing.

A review of BIAB
 

If anyone is interested, you can read a review of BIAB at http://www.cleverjoe.com/articles/band-in-a-box.html. And, no, I don't own stock.

hmm
 

Sounds like he wants to really compose, as to patching a bunch of loops and licks together. I do recommend this package if you're almost going to write orchestral music seriously. Get the cheapest version of Cubase (trust me you don't need the advanced functions, save some money) and buy East West Symphonic Library Gold XP, worth every penny. It's amazing how much you can get out of it. PM me if you want to hear what kind of stuff that can be done with this simple package.

The best software for this kind of job comes with arms and legs attached -- it's a composer in the flesh. There are so many people out there who do a nice job composing -- students and professors in a college setting who might very much like to work on such a project and they won't charge much more than some of the software packages you've been discussing.

Drop by the music department of a local college or university and ask around. Chances are most of the composer types own their own software already and they know what to do with it and they can bring a large understanding of style, history and and music theory to the task. They also provide another soruce of creative energy that you can draw on in your work and that's the best benefit of all.

I'll agree you don't need the advanced versions either, but I'm also not a Cubase fan. Having all of them (Logic, Cubase, Reason, Finale, Sonar), I'll take Sonar 5 in any of its flavors. I have the East/West library as well, it's quite good. Another to look at is the Symphonic Fields Forever libe, and if you can find it (long out of business) the "Speaking in Strings" library.
All of these packages are for if you are a musician, which hasn't really been clearly stated. If not, ACID with any of the orchestral packages is so easy to use, even small children can make very impressive scores with it.