Dual wireless for a single camera
 

Does anyone here use 2 wireless setups for a single camera?

Currently I use a Sennheiser G2 for the talent (groom) and a Rode videomic for ambient sounds. I know the Rode isn’t the best choice for this but plugging in the XLR adapter cuts out the onboard mic so if I want 2 audio sources I have to use something else and the Rode was highly recommended. My problem is that the Rode... even with the shockmount picks up “all” camera and tripod vibrations. Just touching the pan handle results in an audible “thump”. (with audio gain on the VX screwed way down).

So rather than investing in a different shotgun I’m thinking the best way to get 2 “clean” audio sources on the same cam is to just make them both off-camera and place a handheld G2 off camera somewhere at the venue. While I’ve found an iRiver to be a great backup for dialog the ambient sounds it records using the lav mic just don’t sound right to me. (like a church choir).

Anyone use this for mounting 2 wireless receivers?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...goryNavigation

Any other recommendations for a second audio source?

Do you have the high-pass filter switch on your Rode activated?

Yes. Actually, in either position the Rode runs too hot even through the XLR adapter.

I like this bracket. It's cheap, rugged, and it will hold two G2 receivers.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...goryNavigation

RE: the Rode, I have one and I don't get the handling noises you speak of. Is the lead stretched tightly to reach the mic jack? That would provide a mechanical path for vibrations that might bypass the shock mount.

[Edit: I take that back. I just set up a test and I do get the thumping. I guess I was just unconsciously working around it.]

adding wireless if you do not need is just expensive and adds noise.
put you mic on a tripod (or even better a mic stand) next to you and eventually use an extension cable.
You never know what will happens with wireless. like this you alway make sure that one channel will stay clean and you will not get too many mobile phone pulse recorded into your soundtrack.
sometime i use a very powerfull clamp, so i can put the mic anywhere, prefferably over the head of people.
you will find such clamp for few dollars in any DIY shop.

Fred, how the heck to you get "2" receivers on that bracket? :) I have an "L" barcket on my VX and sometimes I clip the Senn G2 to that. That's a good point about the RODE cable. It's pretty short but there's still plenty of slack in it.

Giroud, I've considered mounting the wired mic off-cam somewhere but I really don't want to fool with that during run-and-gun situations. (And I *will* forget to unplug the cable when I dash off somewhere - never fails). So far my Senn wireless has been pretty reliable and with two of them on different frequencies I figure I'll always have a backup.

It may not be clear from the photo and the description but it has two shoe mounts at right angles to each other. When I put my G2 receiver in one, I can plainly see there would be room to put a second receiver in the other one.

This will be an important piece of information for anyone with your model of camcorder. Which camcorder is it?

Regards,

Ty Ford

At CES, we used that exact bracket with two G2s mounted on it and a Bescor 40W light on the camcorder accessory shoe. So, yes it will hold the receivers just fine. We did rotate the bracket to the right side of the camcorder to allow the LCD to be opened. Worked like a champ!

Sony VX2100.

But my guess is this will affect most any cam and folks maybe just aren't looking for it (like Fred).

Don't get me wrong... the audio pickup of the VideoMic is great when the camera is stationary and you can't beat the price but again just lightly touching the camera or pan handle on a tripod produces noise - totally unacceptable for me.

What's sad is now I'm thinking any cam mounted mic will produce the same noise.

I'd like to hear from others whether they hear the same thing. No need to film... just turn the camera on and put on a decent set of headphones.

To Fred and Guy: thanks for the info on the bracket. I still don't see the other shoe mount but if you say it's there then it must be.

I know that different cameras seem to be better isolated than others. I have used the VideoMic on a Canon XL2 on a Sachtler tripod and have had no vibration problems.

That leads me to guess that the lower mass of a smaller camera may have something to do with its ability to transfer vibrations.

Of course, your tripod could also be a problem, especially since you are hearing noises if you just touch the tripod pan bar. I don't get any of that with the Sachtler/XL2.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Hi Rick -take it from someone who's already travelled down the road you are travelling now. I had a VideoMic and I had the same experience. I heard a ton of noise in post and when I investigated I put on a set of head phones on just like you and the noise was completely unacceptable. I found that the only way to KILL to noise from that mic was to go to the audio settings menu on my PD-170 and set "WIND" to "ON". This almost completely kills the noise and the huge trade-off is that it also kills all the bass!!! I don't know about you but for my events I like the bass kicking and if bass is mysteriously absent from the recording -IMO it's crappy audio. Thumbs down on the VideoMic -way down.

Not every camera mic will produce the same noise. I bought a Rode NTG-1 as a replacement. Much more acceptable noise levels and better low-frequency response. It's $229.

About the wind noise, Craig. That's completely different than what Rick's talking about.

Craig, were you using the Dead Cat wind cover with the VideoMic? If not, and you were taking wind hits, that's why.

Craig, The NTG-1 and NTG-2 are hands down better than the VideoMic. Were you using anything in addition to the foam filter on tham and were the conditions exactly the same?

I've picked up wind blasts from HVAC systems while being 30 feet from the ducts (big ones) in some cases.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Ty -

I owned this mic, I know EXACTLY what Rick is talking about, and I NEVER SAID OUTDOORS (where did u get that from?)

I'm talking about a work-around for this particular mic INDOORS, IN A ROOM, NO WIND, NO FAN, NO WINDOWS OPEN, NOT EVEN A PERSON BREATHING NEAR THE MIC. (in this environment the VideoMic is noisy)

So as I said... set "WIND" to "ON" If Rick puts the headphones on and toggles between WIND ON and WIND OFF he will notice that the noise from this mic completely goes away with WIND ON. I'm not saying this is a great solution because you kill the low frequencies but it's a work-around if you have no other alternative in the short-term.

You'd be surprised at how much low end sound is in our daily environment. My 416 captures it in exquisite detail and I roll it off at the mixer.

What do you mean "set WIND to ON?" The switch on the mic? If that's what you're referring to, it's not a wiind filter, per se, it's a low cut filter. And, yes, engaging it will roll off the lows. That's what it's there for.

Rode engineered the NTG-1 and NTG-2 both with a reduced low end frequency response; more like that of a Sanken CS3 than a Sennheiser 416.

By chance, are you using the mini to XLR adapter and going in to the camera with an XLR? There are some technical issues with the earlier versions (now resolved) that can cause low noise if the VideoMic is used with the XLR adapter and phantom power on the camera inputs is left on. If that's your situation, turn off the phantom power on the camera.


Regards,

Ty Ford

Craig: I think we're on the same page here. (And I understood you weren't really talking about recording in "wind" but a closed room). Unfortunately the Sony VX only has AG controls but you did give me the idea to crank the gain way way down which helps greatly. I then normalize the result in post but need to really tweak things to get that "hiss" removed. Still not what I want but like your "WIND ON" filter it's better.

Ty: I actually bought the VideoMic based partially on the sound test you provided and thank you for that. (along with the other testimonials here). Again, it really does pick up great sounding audio as long as the cam is on a tripod and not moving. I've also heard the earlier VideoMics were notorious for the exact same thing I've described in this post but it was reported that this was fixed. (Better shockmount?) My RODE is only a couple of months old so I'm sure it's of the this later variety.

I'm really tempted to just right this thing off as a mistake (at least for the VX) and go to something else but I'm still leary about any audio being "on cam" and I really don't want to fool with cables.

Rick,

So what you're saying is the suspension is not good enough for hand held use on your camera, right.

That's an interesting point. I'll have to see what happens handheld with the XL2.

I can imagine that a lot of roccking motion may cause a wobble in the mic/mount and that could result in noise. Hafta try that.

Great string BTW.

Ty

Rick,

On your Sony VX, camera on (not VTR), search around in the menus and you will find a "WIND" setting. Your camera has one. It is there - you have to look. By default it is OFF. Toggle between on and off and you will notice the night & day difference. Yes I realize this cuts off the low frequencies, similar to the switch on the mic itself, but you will get better results using the in-camera setting.

Ty - we are not talking about wobble or rocking motion - we are talking about normal use. Touching the camera lightly with a finger or touching the tripod gently to move it. Very careful and deliberate movements. There's nothing extreme about how it's being used. In fact, with my VideoMic (no longer use it), on camera (PD-170) using shock mount, IN A SILENT ROOM, phantom power off, while recording, I could hear the camera's tape motor drive loud and forget touching the camera or tripod - it was way, way, way, too noisy. I ended up shooting one more event with the IN-CAMERA wind setting to ON, then bought an NTG-1. I have nothing against Rode -remember I replaced it with an NTG-1- but shortly after I got one and used it in the field I quickly realized why it was priced low.

Some miniDV cams are very quiet, some aren't. Are you saying that on the VX2100 the VideoMic picks up more noise than a camera mounted NTG-1?

Ty Ford

Shock Mount
 

What kind of shock mount are you using?

Are you saying that on the VX2100 the VideoMic picks up more noise than a camera mounted NTG-1? yes AND same thing on my PD-170

The shockmount supplied by Rode that comes with the VideoMic.

LOL! I never noticed. I've only shot indoors since I got the cam. Will give 'er a whirl :)

AND while I've got you Craig just to be sure... you're saying the NTG-1, 2 don't exhibit this behavior on your VX? (Or not as noticable). Do you still need to use the "WIND ON" setting with the NTG?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...ughType=search

I'm still leary. Althought the VideoMic seems to have that extra "box" built in for the battery (see link below). I'm no engineer but it just seems to me the "less" bulk there is between the mount and the acutal mic the better the sound pickup should be.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...ughType=search

I'm saying the NGT-1 is much better with handling noise and the like - I don't use the wind setting with this mic unless I'm in a super quiet room and that rarely happens with the wedding events I shoot.