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-   -   Lav Shootout? (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/all-things-audio/70173-lav-shootout.html)

Jim Michael June 24th, 2006 07:55 PM

Lav Shootout?
 
A while back there was some talk of a lav shootout. Did anything happen with that? Can anyone point to some comparative audio samples for wired lavs such as the COS-11 and B6? TIA.

Jim Michael June 29th, 2006 06:49 PM

Found these comparisons, still looking for some cos-11 samples.

http://bwgproductions.com/examples/

Matt Davis June 30th, 2006 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Michael
still looking for some cos-11 samples.

Don't have 'official' samples, but I've used a COS-11 after using an ECM077 for ages (and an ECM-55 before that).

Purely subjective feel is that the COS-11 is more neutral. If the ECM-77 was a PD170, the COS-11 is more Panasonic DVX100 - but about equal in sensitivity. It makes the ECM-77 sound a bit warm - I had got a bit used to that, and so was a little wary of the COS-11 at first. But now happy with the sound, and find the miniscule size of the COS-11 a great feature too.

I could do some voice tests with an ECM-55 and a COS-11 to two tracks of DV and pull out the audio to a WAV or something if this would constitute an 'Example'? :-)

Jim Michael June 30th, 2006 05:07 AM

Absolutely. There seems to be no shortage of side-by-side shotgun mic comparisons, but not so with the lavs. I'll be glad to provide the bandwidth for the samples if you like.

Stu Holmes June 30th, 2006 09:03 AM

Guy Cochran - Lav shoot-out?
 
Guy Cochran was going to run a lav shootout on DVestore.com

It was a little while ago now that he mentioned it. Don't know what happened to that, or if its posted up.

MAybe if Guy is reading this he could post up the status on that?

Guy Cochran June 30th, 2006 11:37 PM

We shot a lav shootout in our studio with hardwood floors/bare walls and unfortunately the accoustics were just too poor to put up for everyone to make a solid judgement on. We'll revisit a re-shoot as soon as we can bump some other gigs out of the que.

Matt Davis July 6th, 2006 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Michael
There seems to be no shortage of side-by-side shotgun mic comparisons, but not so with the lavs.

Well, here it is folks, the most unscientific of comparisons. Just me recording myself onto a Z1 with an ECM-55 and a COS-11 clipped either side of my shirt, outside and inside, raw data. Sanken is on the LEFT channel, ECM-55 is on the RIGHT channel.

http://www.mdma.tv/lav/cos-11_ecm55.mp3 (3.8 Mb, listen online)

http://www.mdma.tv/lav/cos-11_ecm55.aif (32 Mb, right-click and download)

You should hear the definite 'warmth' of the ECM mic, but now I find it muffled rather than warm. I thought the COS made the male voice sound nasal, but comparing it with similar recordings from a Sennheiser MK60 (the uber 416?) I feel that the Sanken is more natural and one can dial in the warmth if desired.

I may be repeating myself, but if the ECM range is the PD150 of microphones, the COS-11 is definitely the DVX100. Filmic, progressive audio, if you will.

Both are quite sibilant. Nature of the beast?

Seth Bloombaum July 6th, 2006 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Daviss
I may be repeating myself, but if the ECM range is the PD150 of microphones, the COS-11 is definitely the DVX100.

No disrespect, but I take issue with blanket statements about "the ECM range" as the 55 is quite different in design and frequency response than eg. the 77. Not that Sanken, Countryman and Tram don't make great mikes, they make some of the best.

IMO the 55 has a built-in response curve that makes it more suitable for use with a PA system - I don't dial in as much EQ. I found a tram to be a difficult beast to tame in sound reinforcement.

As a recording mic, the ECM55 sounds harsh to my ear.

OTOH, the ECM77 and 88 are designed as recording mics, generally flatter with an open sound more comparable to Sanken, Trams & etc. My fave is Tram, but I've gotten a lot of good interviews out of ECM77s.

Matt Davis July 7th, 2006 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seth Bloombaum
No disrespect, but I take issue with blanket statements about "the ECM range" as the 55 is quite different in design and frequency response than eg. the 77.

No problem - just working from memory. Never worked with the ECM-88 - got the COS-11 instead. I associate the warm sound with Sonys - but haven't had an opportunity to put a 55 and 77 together.

Stu Holmes July 7th, 2006 08:32 AM

Matt - Listened to your lav mic comparison - thanks for taking the time to do that and posting it up - that sort of thing is always helpful.

ps. couldn't help noticing your pure Home Counties accent ! you should be a BBC newsreader or something.... ;-)

Matt Davis July 7th, 2006 10:22 AM

Glad to help, if I can lay my hands on more examples (an ECM-77 would be good) will do more. Ditto stick mics, and maybe a side-by-side with the Coles Lip Mic (of which I have one example).

Actually, it strikes me that we need to have female voice tests too. Totally different. Any sound geeks in the Slough area care to join up for a mic test fest?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stu Holmes
pure Home Counties accent

Thankyou, but it's RP. Received Pronunciation. Under threat from Ashtray Inglish Innit (aka Estuary English). Where 'Trail' and 'Trial' are both pronounced 'Trowel' - and therein lies the rub: does Shower rhyme with Par or Power? RP goes with the latter, 'Posh' goes with the former. "I think" says he, realising that he's standing over a very deep pit, shovel in hand.

Besides, Auntie Beeb seems to have it in for RP; not content with cutting budgets, vowels are in for it too.

:)

Jim Michael July 7th, 2006 06:43 PM

Matt, thank you for performing this test. I think the choice of environment worked well.

Max Salhab July 7th, 2006 10:49 PM

sanken
 
Wow Matt, your voice sounds really good on the sanken, as good as many voiceovers I've heard. I have a sanken but its never sounded this good on my voice, hehe. In my opinion, the sanken definitely wins here, its much brighter.

Shawn Redford July 8th, 2006 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guy Cochran
We shot a lav shootout in our studio with hardwood floors/bare walls and unfortunately the accoustics were just too poor to put up for everyone to make a solid judgement on. We'll revisit a re-shoot as soon as we can bump some other gigs out of the que.

Guy - Thanks for trying to do this. I'm sorry that it didn't work out and I appreciate your continued dedication to this shootout. Based on what you have done and your own experience, do you have any sense of the best-in-class lavs at this point?


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