Best bang for the buck shotgun microphone
 

Hey fellas,

Having bought an XL-2 a couple of months ago and noticing the horrible quality of audio that comes with the standard canon microphone I want to invest my money into a shotgun microphone that would enhance the quality of audio for a short film that I want to shoot soon. My budget is basically $250-$300 US for a shotgun microphone set (Possibly including a boom pole, shock mount and windmuff) that would fit my needs and price budget. I have been looking everywhere and since I am not an audio buff i'm turning to you guys for some help.

Any reccomendations of kits/microphones would be greatly appreciated!

Not sure of the exact prices but I think the
Rode Videomic and the Rode boompole combo
is around $300. Not sure what the wind
options are for the Videomic but I'm sure others
here know.

I've been doing a little bit of research and from my previous purchase of the Tiffen Steady Stick from Guy at DVEstore i'm thinking of purchasing the RODE NTG-2 shotgun microphone from him, except he doesn't sell any boompole microphone kits...

It's all right here:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...hs=t&shs=ntg-2

You add all this stuff up and it comes to about
$300, which was the op's budget:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...t&shs=videomic

That Videomic has a shock mount built in.

AT 897.
Bruce Yarock

Dave,

The Videomic doesn't have XLR though, im looking for a microphone that can go for long distances without any noises.

Thanks for your great help guys.

Take a look at this comparison:
http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage...tgun_mics.html

I've got the AT815b here at work. I find it to be VERY thin sounding. I think the challenge of finding a good low-cost shotgun is getting a decent bass response. You can't rely on the proximity effect when keeping the mic out of the video frame.

For the budget, a RODE Videomic with the VXLR (1/8" mini to XLR adapter), "Deadcat" windmuff, 20' XLR cable and a RODE Boompole could be had for $295. http://www.dvcreators.net/dvcreator-...und-package-2/

You can hear what the RODE Videomic sounds like on a 20' XLR Cable (minus the deadcat) at http://dvestore.com/theatre/mics_guide.html

Also see http://www.dvcreators.net/dvcreator-...und-package-1/

BTW, we're also a DVinfo.net Sponsor so be comfortable knowing your dollars go back to supporting the DV Challenge where we have given away many cool items such as Canon cameras, BeachTek audio adapters, Video iPods, DVD's, Steady Sticks and more! DVinfo.net members can always use the coupon code "dvinfo" at checkout and receive another 5% off too.

Thanks for the swift reply Guy, the VideoMic package you posted seems very reasonable in terms of price and contents. Are you sure the VideoMic's shock absorber will fit fine on the Rode Boompole? Because from the looks of it, it wouldn't look to sturdy if its mounted on there. And what about mobility of the shock absorber? For instance I might want to point the VideoMic 90 degrees from the elevation of the boompole to get a downwards audio feed, will it allow me to do that?

Thanks for the other responses guys, I appreciate all your suggestions.

It is certainly sturdy. Some have noticed squeaking from the rubber rings on the Videomic. We've found a bit of household oil or silicon will cease that if you find you're really jiggling the mic around abruptly. The bottom of the Videomic has a metal place where the boom pole threads into. It is indeed solid and tough. You will need to secure (gaff tape or something creative) the VXLR adapter as it will definitely go flying around.

The Videomic at the end of the pole is not swivel adjustable like the SM3 Shockmount is. You're basically stuck at a 90 degree angle.

The next system to check out for a bit more money would be the $249 RODE NTG-2 shotgun with the SM3. Then you can angle the mic wherever you wish. http://www.dvcreators.net/dvcreator-...und-package-1/

Just FYI - If by "go for long distances" you're talking about having the mic located a long distance from the subject, such mics don't exist. If you're talking about having the mic on the camera at usual shooting distances, it just won't work out very well with any microphone. For good quality sound, the mic - even a top of the line shotgun mic - has to be within a couple of feet at most, optimally about 12-18 inches, from the sound source. With the exception of specialized parabolic "spy" microphones, the acoustic equivalent of an image-magnifying telephoto lens just isn't physically possible.

XLR connectors imply balanced cables which are much more immune from electrical noise that are unbalanced cables like on the Videomic, so if by "long distances" you mean long cable runs between the mic and the camera without picking up interference that's another story. But the Rodes mini-to-XLR adapter is a simple plug adapter, not a balancing transformer and using it at the mic to connect to an XLR cable running to the camera or mixer does not mean you now have a balanced system. XLR cables or not, the whole system will still be unbalanced and will not have the high level of noise immunity usually associated with professional balanced XLR mics and cables. OF course most XLR extrension cables would use better quality mic cable and so you'll probably still be better off than if you used a cheapo Radio Shack stereo-headphone style miniplug extension cables.

For under $300 I would recommend the Audio-Technica AT897. It is much better than the Rode VideoMic (I own both) and B&H has it in a kit together with a Rode SM3 Universal Shock Mount and XLR Right Angle Cable for only $269.95 USD. This is a great deal.

~jr

Hey Steve,

That was exactly what I was referring to, I know that it sounds quite idiotic if I am thinking that a shotgun microphone would pick up a person maybe 20 to 15 feet away.

Right now I am kind of debating whether to go with the Rode Videomic or the Rode NTG-2 or the AT-897. Basically for me its either an inexpensive Videomic setup, or an expensive high quality "XLR out of the box" audio setup.

Again I thank you ALL for your responses, this discussion board is probobly the best I have been to in a while in terms of quality of posts and suggestions!

My recommendation would be to either get the Rode NTG-2 or AT897. Forget the VideoMic. Look at it this way, if you get the VideoMic you will want to upgrade to a better mic someday. Will you go from a $150 VideoMic to a $500 mic? Probably not. So you will eventually buy a $250 mic like the NTG-2 or AT897 eventually anyway. Why not just buy it now since it’s within your budget (AT897 is $269.95). In the end you will have a much better mic.

I’m not knocking the VideoMic. I own one and it sounds great for the money (...for the money!). But not as great as the AT897 and it is constructed of plastic and has a 1/8” jack because it’s unbalanced. IMHO this severely limits its usefulness for professional use. The VideoMic was intended as a consumer camcorder mic and priced (and built) accordingly. In that role it absolutely shines. Nothing can touch it for $150. It was exactly what I needed for my $500 consumer Panasonic GS200. It is not what I would use with your $3000 XL-2! Spring the extra $100 and get a descent mic that you will use for years to come, now.

~jr

Hi John,

With the points you have stated and with the Videomic being for semipro camera owners, I think you are right and I should invest in something that is worthwhile (Investing in the XL-2 was a battle too!).

I have two problems however. Firstly is Guy from DVEstore in which his second package in too overpriced in my situation, I will never be able to fork over $400 US and pay the duties and taxes after they come from the border, if Guy has a different package which has cheaper equipment for under $400 US then I would be drawn to buy his package.

And the second problem is the BHP package which includes the 1.5 XLR cable, the AT897 and the Rode shock mount, theres no boompole or windmuff that is included with the package, and to buy them seperate would tally up to what Guy is offering me in his NTG-2 package.

AFAIK there are no import duties to pay. I'm also in Ontario and when I order from the States I (sometimes) have to pay GST and PST on the cost of the items plus shipping. But it seems to be a crapshoot - sometimes they don't charge anything, sometimes its 7% GST only, and sometimes all 15%. (Just remembered, GST is going down to 6% as of today - O' Joy! O' Frabjous Day! LOL) But I've never had to pay any actual customs or import duties on top of that.

By the way, since you're in Toronto you might want to pop in down at Trew Audio on Villiers St in the waterfront and take a look around. They specialize in pro gear for feature and broadcast production and is a good place both gear and rentals.

Hey Steve,

I payed duties for the SteadyStick in which I ordered from Guy with GST and PST (I'm not blaming you Guy).

I live on the outskirts of Toronto (Scarborough area) and I make frequent trips to Vistek for my video needs. Theres a bunch of audio stores near Steeles and Vic Park that have professional audio equipment and I pop in and out of those stores also.

I just really want a solid and well priced system that would work for the time being and continue working with the life of my XL-2.

Happy Canada day BTW!

Do go down and check out Trew - they're a small shop but 100% oriented to audio for film and video. Their web site is http://www.trewaudio.ca/

If well priced means close to $300 for mic, shockmount, boom pole and good wind screen, the only outfit you can put together going to be the VideoMic with the $80 boom pole and the "Dead Cat." But take heart-after a harmless short unbalanced cable run down the pole from the VideoMic, you can convert to balance cable for the rest of the run with a transfomer adapter. That will take you to a bit over $300.

You can substitute the NTG-2 into the above outfit for another $100. You'll need a shock mount, but it's cost ($50 SM3) will be pretty much offset by not needing the unbalanced to balanced conversion.

The more expensive kits you've looked at include a more expensive boom pole, I believe.

Those seem to be your options, unless you decide up the anty, which a lot of people seem to do when they realize that there is no super deal out there that fits their requirements.

Hey guys,

Alright I have increased the audio budget accordingly, however I want to start with the microphone, shock mount and cables first. I will see if I need a boom pole after my first shoot and other acsessories.

This is where I am stumped however, many people argue that the AT897 is worth buying and vice versa with the NTG-2. I browsed the DVEstore video gallery and I heard the quality of the AT897 VS the NTG-2 and I have to say that the NTG-2 has less background/ambient noise than the AT897, but is there anything else that the NTG-2 excels in? Or is the AT897 an overall better microphone (Construction/Warranty/Price:Performance ratio) than the Rode NTG-2?

Cheers,

Not idiotic but alas it's incorrect none-the-less. But don't feel bad, you're not alone by a long shot. A lot of people are under the impression that shotgun mics somehow pull in or magnify distant sounds. They don't. They supress sounds arriving from directions other than in-line with the mic and because that isolates the speaker from the background noises you can get away with turning up the gain a bit to compensate for increased distance. But "increased distance" is a matter of degree. We're talking about the diffence between having the mic 2 to 3 feet, maybe 4, from the speaker with a shotgun compared to a more normal 8 or 12 to perhaps 18 inches with other types of mics. When you get 15 to 20 feet away, you're way outside the range any mic at any price is going to give you decent sounding results. Oh, you'll get something recorded and it may be understandable but it will not sound very good or at all natural. Not saying you're wrong in wanting to get a good shotgun, far from it!, just be clear what it can and can't do for you.

Check out this kit if you're considering the Rode NTG2 - I believe the price shown is $CDN - http://www.trewaudio.ca/specials/rode_boomkit.htm Note the phrase in the ad copy "Trew Audio's Product Specialist has compared this mic directly with other professional shotguns of 3 times the cost. There was no significant difference."

What are you going to put the shockmount on if not a boom pole? Note the kit referenced above includes a pistol grip for when you don't use the boom but see my comments above regarding putting the mic with the camera 15-20 feet away if that's what your thinking. I'm certain you'll find you're not going to be happy with the sound until you get the mic off the camera and up close to the subject.

I think that there's general agreement that they're both good low end mics. The pros here were impressed with the AT897 when it came out and recommended it often as having no equal near its price. The Rode didn't seem to get much press until more recently. I gather that the NTG-2 is newer, but I'm not sure of that. [EDIT--I just confirmed this with searches on the two mics]. The NTG-2 is more sensitive but I don't believe that's an issue with the XL2.

Hijack
 

What do you think of this mic?

Sennheiser MKH-416 - (P48) Super-Cardioid Short Shotgun Condenser Interference Tube Microphone

I recently got a hold of one and am wondering if it would work well as a boom mic. I have tested it out a couple times and it sounded pretty weird mounted to the camera.

The MKH-416 is a very good shotgun mic, but will sound at least as bad as any shotgun indoors. And yes, it's much more suited for boom pole or stand use. There is a lot written about it and about shotgun use in this forum. Do a search on it.

I heard those same two clips and i agree with what you say - the NTG2 did appear to have less hiss. This may be because the NTG2 output level is much higher than AT897, and so to get the 897 up the same level, the level had to be increased to such a point that the background hiss became apparent.
The main thing about 897 if people do find a fault with it is its relatively low output level.

Mkh-416
 

So,

It sounds, then, like the MKH-416 would be better indoors than the MKH-416 due to its pressure gradient design versus the intererence tube design. At least that was the upshot I got from searching on the MKH-416.

Is that a fair, albeit brief, assessment?

Thanks,

David

Huh?

What mic did you mean?

Yeah David - you typed MKH416 twice. Think one of them needs to be edited..

Doh
 

I think I meant the MKH40. Which is the pressure gradient designed Sen Mic.

I need to drink more coffee.. or less.. I don't know which.

David