Wireless Microphones
 

I am looking for some good wireless mics and wanted to know what people recommend (model #'s etc). I plan on using it with my XL1. What would be ideal is a lavaliere style which would allow me to attach 3 different mics to 3 different people, come back to a small mixing station and then go into the XL1. I'd like to know what the distance range is and all of that good stuff. I'm also interested in any other recommendations that people might have.

Thanks in advance.

Hey Joe,

I just recently posted the same question in another forum...it's at http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=&threadid=866. There have been a couple of responses so far. The best option given to date is Azden. I've looked at Azden and I'm just not crazy about it...but that might be the only choice.

One thing I haven't been able to get an answer on...here or from the dealers directly is what they mean in the info on certain wireless systems when they say

Number of channels: 32
Number of simultaneous systems: 32

"Simultaneous systems"? That sounds like separate transmitters to me. But 32? Somebody will have to hit me over the head with a microphone and say "Yes, John...32 transmitters are possible" before I'll believe that.

One model I'm talking about specifically is Samson's UHF Micro 32 at http://www.samsontech.com/wireless/products.html. The blurb says <<32 UHF channels in receiver and transmitters.>>

I'm just worried that I'm misconstruing what they mean here...because 32 transmitters at this price is unbelievable. Another site claims << PLL-synthesized VCO circuitry in the transmitters reduces RF interference from spurious emissions in multi-user applications.>> "Multi-user"...bottom line is I don't really care if 32 transmitters are possible, I'm hoping for 2 to 3, and "multi-user" seems to imply that. Just wish one of these sites would spell it out in plain English.

Remember John, you are in Korea ;)

So THAT's why the movie theaters here sell more dried squid snacks and boiled silk worm larvae than popcorn...I'm in Korea! How'd that happen?

Re. Wireless mics
 

Hi Joe.
Re your question regarding suitable wireless mics for the canon xl1. Don't make the mistake that we made a few months back by buying Azden for the following reasons.
1. To use 3 mics you will need 3 complete kits of mics and receivers.
2. Quality is very poor due to the frequency used. We experienced a lot of probs from emergency services, mobile phones and even telephone wires and nearby electrical appliances.
3. Effective range is about 100 feet-if you are very lucky!
4. Manufacturer says new batteries have to be used every time you use the mics.
Sollution> Buy Sennheiser EW100. The quality is nothing short of awesome with no interference and an effective range of over 500 feet (without obstruction) and you will only need 1 receiver at the camera end and a cheap 3 channel mixer back into the xl1.
Hope this helps
regards to all
David Gemini Films

I was recently looking at the Sennheiser EW100 range. While looking at the EW112-P I noticed that the audio connection was 3.5mm jack instead of XLR on the higher 500 model range.
Will the quality through a 3.5mm jack be less of that through XLR and is XLR worth the extra £200 or so?

Lectrosonic UHF
 

I use a Lectrosonic UHF 100 series, 256 frequencies
with the lavalier mic. In addition, I can use my Electro-voice RE50/B Omni hand held mic or my audio -technica AT835b shotgun attached to the transmitter.

I'm not sure, but I think you'll need 2 or 3 separate transmitter/receivers.

David,

You did not specify which Azden model you purchased but we have had GREAT results with our Azden UDR400 unit. It uses the UHF frequencies instead of VHF and has never given us a dropout. We have also never picked up extraneous radio signals. I will agree that it will only work with one transmitter but I believe that Azden does have some dual units available.

Wireless mics
 

Check out a company named AKG. I'm using 5 WMS80PT's, running into a small portable mixer. They are UHF and fairly afffordable. There are numerous mics available to plug into the recievers. I have been extremely pleased with the results that I have gotten. As for Azden having that many channels, there is a reason, it is possible that someone else might be using the exact same model nearby that may cause interfearance (not likely, but possible).

I Use The EW112p
 

I like the EW112p. On such a short run like that I doubt you would notice any difference with XLR. Besides, the XL-1 does not have XLR unless you add a mic adapter.

The other thing to realize is that ew112p IS NOT DIVERSITY!!! I believe the 300s and 500s are.

The only time I got the mics to fail was at extreme range. The rest of the time they have worked quite well.

The one I am using is running up around 740MHz. Some wireless users say that is one of the reasons I do not miss diversity.

Hope this helps,
Nathan Gifford

"The other thing to realize is that ew112p IS NOT DIVERSITY!!!"

Sorry if this is pretty basic but I'm what you might call an amateur... what is "Diversity"?

Thanks.

Diversity is the buzz word for a system that transmits simultaneously on two frequencies. This way if there's a signal drop-out on one frequency, the other will provide a backup. This way, there's no lost audio signal. It's rare for both frequencies to drop out at the same time.

Thanks for that clear explanation.
With these non-diversity ones, is this drop-out a noticable regular problem, as I am considering the ew112p?

I think it really depends on a lot of things. UHF systems are supposed to be better than VHF systems. The environment is pretty significant(the amount of reflected signal causing cancellation kind of thing), also distance from the receiver. Stuff happens.......the best way to be sure is redundancy. I can't quantify it, perhaps someone alse on this board can.

I have not had a problem.
 

After hours of use with the ew112p I never had a dropout except at extreme range. Mine works around 740MHz.

From other diversity users they suggest that these UHF units have less problems with dropouts than the lower frequency units.

Nathan Gifford

What is the sound quality of the ew112p , how does it compare to those that are used on TV for talk shows and news?

It has excellent sound.
 

The ew112p has excellent sound, after all it uses the MKE2 lav mic. I doubt you could tell the difference and I have seen some of the reporters using Sennheiser in the field.

If you have doubts, most retailers will let you try and return the product if it does not work out for you. If they do not, I would reconsider using them.

Nathan Gifford

Thanks Nathan.
Thing is, in the UK these type of stores are few and far between, so I might have to travel a fair way to get one in the first place.

Anyway, I've got plenty of time to consider.

You also need to find out what is best to use in your country.
 

I did not realize you were in the UK. You should also look at the range of frequencies you plan to use and whether it is legal to use them. Some frequency bands that are legal in the US are not legal elsewhere.

Nathan Gifford

I've seen the ew112p for sale in UK stores so I think it must be legal to use their frequencies.

It can't intefere much anyway where I want to use it, as most of the time I will be using it in a relatively rural area.

ew 100 G2 & Diversity
 

I'm sitting here looking at my book for the Sennheiser G2 (p.89).

It says "The EM100 G2 receiver operates on the "true diversity" principle....
In true diversity, instead of one antenna and one receiver there are now two antennas and two receiver sections."

It goes on to elaborate on diversity, but it makes me think these really are UHF diversity systems, despite the fact that there is only one visible antenna.

I just thought I'd let people know this.

Rick

Re: It has excellent sound.
 

<<<-- Originally posted by Nathan Gifford : The ew112p has excellent sound, after all it uses the MKE2 lav mic. -->>>

Actually the 100 series comes with the ME-2 lavellier in the kit, not the MKE-2 which costs about 5 or 6 times as much. I know because I just ordered two 500 series with MKE-2's. You have to buy all the bits seperately with the 500 series, they don't come as kits.

Depends on the quality you want but the 500 Series is much more expensive but is all balanced and is apparently much better than the 100. When you see the news crews from the BBC etc. with Sennheiser it is the 500 series.

<<<-- Originally posted by Bill Ravens : Diversity is the buzz word for a system that transmits simultaneously on two frequencies. This way if there's a signal drop-out on one frequency, the other will provide a backup. This way, there's no lost audio signal. It's rare for both frequencies to drop out at the same time. -->>>
wrong !! divercity reception is always one freqwency which had been pick up by 2 or more recievers , those could be 2 recievers or 2 antenas (thats call antenna dyvercity systems -the lectrosonics work this way) ,the cirquet just check where is the better signal is and deliver it to the output

Re: I have not had a problem.
 

<<<-- Originally posted by Nathan Gifford : After hours of use with the ew112p I never had a dropout except at extreme range. Mine works around 740MHz.

From other diversity users they suggest that these UHF units have less problems with dropouts than the lower frequency units.

Nathan Gifford -->>>

there is nothing to do with carier fq , your fq block would be usless in place i live , the different blocks are made for different arias where you have aditional rf users (tv stations , ellar phones ..ets)

Re: ew 100 G2 & Diversity
 

<<<-- Originally posted by Rick Smith : I'm sitting here looking at my book for the Sennheiser G2 (p.89).

It says "The EM100 G2 receiver operates on the "true diversity" principle....
In true diversity, instead of one antenna and one receiver there are now two antennas and two receiver sections."

It goes on to elaborate on diversity, but it makes me think these really are UHF diversity systems, despite the fact that there is only one visible antenna.

I just thought I'd let people know this.

Rick -->>>
the eng reciever is not divercity , the rack mount is , probably the swnheiser to cheap make separate manuals or looking for "intelegent people":-)

Re: Re: It has excellent sound.
 

<<<-- Originally posted by Stephen M. Crawford : <<<-- Originally posted by Nathan Gifford : The ew112p has excellent sound, after all it uses the MKE2 lav mic. -->>>

Actually the 100 series comes with the ME-2 lavellier in the kit, not the MKE-2 which costs about 5 or 6 times as much. I know because I just ordered two 500 series with MKE-2's. You have to buy all the bits seperately with the 500 series, they don't come as kits.

Depends on the quality you want but the 500 Series is much more expensive but is all balanced and is apparently much better than the 100. When you see the news crews from the BBC etc. with Sennheiser it is the 500 series. -->>>
the old 100 and 500 were complitly indentical systems with only few exeptions , monitor out and few aditional presets , ph power on abattt plug .audio wise and range wise they are the same

Hi Dan, if your looking for any video equipment in the UK, visit

www.creativevideo.co.uk

I use them all the time. Their after sales service is amazing (they had my radio mics sorted out within days , when I was having problems) and everyone there knows what there talking about.

Plus there prices are very reasonable.

Just thought that I would give them a quick plug..

Hope this helps with your search for shops that stock prosumer / professional kit.

WOW, just realised how old this post is, lol

I guess you'll be all sorted out by now.....

When looking at wireless solutions in music (wireless mics, wireless guitars, etc.) I found that Azden were overpriced and under performed.

Look at wireless solutions from the following companies:

Samson
AKG
Shure
Nady

I am not shure who has lavaliers or not. If you can get a lavalier that has the mic on one end and an XLR jack (or maybe a 1/4" male plug which can be converted to an XLR for about $10 with an adapter), then get that, and get a wireless system that actually doesn't have a mic attached, but plugs into the XLR of the mic of your choice. A Lot of singers do that because they prefer something like a Shure SM58 mic to the wireless mics because they just sound better. They get the wireless XLR adapter and plug it into their vocal mic of choice.

when they say 32 channels, it means that you can select from 32 different channels on the unit. This is for 2 reasons:

1) You have another wireless unit operating in the same frequency range, and you don't want cross talk between them

2) You are using one channel and getting some sort of radio interference on it, so you switch channels.

The difference (as someone described here) between "True Diversity" and regular wireless systems, is that a "True Diversity" system has 2 antennas on the base unit. Incase there is drop out on one, the other will still be there to pick up the signal. Whether this is an issue for you depends on the environment where you will be using the mic. I think better safe than sorry, but in most cases you'll be fine with a simple 1 antenna system, unless you are looking for ranges of over 100 feet or more.

You can get these in VHF or UHF. Originally they were made to use the VHF spectrum. However that spectrum had a lot of interference, so the systems switched to using UHF, which is a higher frequency range. These days it really is a crapshoot as to which is better because there is a LOT more stuff in the UHF spectrum these days than there used to be. UHF over VHF is not as great an issue as it used to be. VHF systems are a lot cheaper, but the UHF systems are generally more feature rich, and will have more channels, etc.

Look online at places like

www.musicianfriend.com
www.sweetwater.com
www.music123.com
www.zzounds.com
www.samash.com

etc.

You should be able to find better quality wireless stuff for cheaper prices than the Azden stuff. I must say that the last time that I looked at Azden stuff was over 5 years ago, so they may have improved and gotten cheaper over time.

Once you pick a system that you like (or several) google for some reviews. For example, say you were looking at the AirLine Handheld and the AKG SO Snap on transmitter

google for

samson airline review
akg wireless review

and read the reviews.

It used to be basically "you get what you pay for, and DONT go cheap on wireless", but I think things have changed a bit. You can now get nice wireless systems for fairly cheap, when it used to be that to get a decent one for guitar you had to spend in the $600+ range. Granted, the overall sound quality demanded by guitarists as far as wireless goes is MUCH higher than anyone else (including vocalists). For speaking parts, etc. you can go cheaper and won't notice any difference at all. However, for guitarists that can tell the difference in sound between different lengths of instrument cables, it's a whole different world. So, if the review is for the guitar system (AirLine guitar wireless system) give yourself some leeway and take the review with a grain of salt. Guitarists are MUCH more demanding. If a guitarist says that it was decent and didn't suck his tone, than you can bet it will be MORE than enough for any kind of vocal parts!

Alex F

Whilst I realise that there will probably be a problem if you use two transmitters with microphones on the same frequency and one reciever ( on camera lets say) tuned to the same frequency to pick them up, what would the outcome be? Would they simply 'interrupt' each other?

What about if you use one microphone transmitter and two recievers, that would be ok wouldnt it?

I'm envisaging using a two camera configuration where the sound from a lavellier is picked up on one channel on both cameras. This would ensure continuous sound even if I had to stop one camera (for a battery change or re-positioning of tripod for example). I don't want to have to use two mics for obvious reasons.

Using two transmitters on the same frequency will result in one of two things (depending on how the receiver is designed)

Either:

- Whichever transmitter is getting the strongest signal to the receiver will be picked up, and the other will be ignored. The receiver could switch back and forth between them at random as signal strenghts fluctuate.

or

- You will get interference, and you won't get clean signal from either mic.

Neither of those are good options. If you need two imput signals, you need two transmitters and two receivers, and each set needs to be on its own frequency, and the frequencies need to be far enough apart from either other so as to not interfere with each other.

-Troy

Hi Troy,

From your post I think you misunderstood what was the main question I was asking, I understand two transmitters would be a problem, as I said in my post and though I was curious as to what would be the outcome, I did not actually want to do that anyway.

What I was asking was if I had 1 tramsmitter (lavellier) and two recievers working on the same frequency would the signal be picked up by the two recievers ok? So I would get the sound from 1 mic recorded onto two cameras.

Thanks for your input so far.

Hmm... the answer is: I don't know, but I would imagine that it would work.

I know that the G2 wireless uses a pilot tone by default, which is a non-audible tone that is transmitted by the transmitter and listened for by the receiver. If the receiver picks up a transmission with no pilot tone, the receiver will ignore it. This feature CAN be disabled, though, and I imagine it would be necessary to do so to make this work. I'm not sure how this is implemented (if it is at all) on other systems.

-Troy

Yes, you can use two receivers with a single transmitter (but NOT the other way round!) Just like you and your neighbpr can both be tuned to the same radio station.

As long as both receivers are within the transmission range of the body-pack you should be fine. Of course, the receivers must be compatible with the transmitter (same Mfr, model,series, band). Just set both receivers and the transmitter to the same channel/frequency.

I had a situation where I needed to get ausio to several remote speakers and didn't want to run wires. I set a wireless receiver up at each speaker location and put a single transmitter at the sound board. Worked great.

Hope this helps.