Recorder versus Using Mixer to Camera?
I'm trying to figure out the benefits of using a recorder versus sending the mixer output to the camera.
Shots will be talking head documentary style. Tentatively I've decided on: an HV-20, Sound Devices 302 mixer and Sennheiser MKH416 mic. Haven't researched lav mics yet. Since the the HV-20 only has two audio tracks, I guess I need to use a recorder if I go the three or more mic route. I know the camera is the cheapest part of the equation right now, but it's also the part that is most likely to be technologically improved upon. I see the mic, mixer and other equipment as more longterm investments. So do you like recorders, find their worth it? If so, want to suggest any? THANKS MUCH. |
Since the HV20 doesn't have XLR inputs that I know of (without an adapter) (Looks like Stereo mini mic in) You will have to test your set up to see how well it works. Having a back up recording of the sound will mean additional time in Post but could be a lifesaver. Plan on using a manual slate since the HV20 and other HDV low end cams won't output Timecode. Are you sure you don't you at least want to get an XH-A1? Or something else with XLR's and good manual controls.
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Another consideration is that a lav will sound better than a mis-pointed or distant MKH416. So if it's going to be more than one interviewee you need a boom pole man. And if it's only you with one stationary interviewee at a time, you need a studio type setup with the mic in fixed position closely above and out of the shot, or have to not mind having the mic in the shot on a stand. Otherwise, you'll loose the benefit of having that very fine mic.
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Doesn't the A1 use a compressed audio encoder?
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As far as suggestions for specific recorders go, I have a small one "for the road", the M-Audio MicroTrack. Don't rely on its phantom power for your MKH416 mic, but then with the SD302 that you intend to buy (makes me jealous!) you won't need to. I am quite happy with it. Another popular choice seems to be the Zoom recorder. - Martin |
Peter:
This film: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9s3hDShqe18 I'm sound is affected by YouTube compression, but we were all real happy with the sound results. Film was shot with a single Sennheiser ME 66 mounted on a boom, run through a field mixer. Camera was my HV20, Letus35 adapter, and we used DXA-4 Beachtek adapter. We used this mixer: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...Devices_MIXPRE It supplies phantom power, and a 1k tone generator which we set at 12 on the camera's meter. Sound guy was on top of everything. |
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They are also more prone to wind and popping. Regards, Ty Ford |
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that's a 4:1 compression ratio, or you're using 25% of the data. Regards, Ty Ford |
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Ty, Steve, et al,
What lav mics would you recommend for talking head interviews in the subject's house (probably livingroom rigged for taping)? The interviewee will usually be one person, but two people sitting next to each other is a definite possibilty. The interviewer will be off camera. Wired will not be a problem. I've read good things about the Sony EM44B and I believe the 55B. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated, as always. THANKS. |
The 44 and 55 are OK. Visible, but OK.
There are many good lavs. The Sanken Cos 11, Countryman B6, EMW, Sony 77B and 88B, to name a few. Regards, Ty Ford |
Dear Ty,
I also have been very pleased with the Tram TR50. What is your opinion of the TR50? |
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Hi Dan,
Haven't tried one yet. Thanks, Ty |
Dear Ty,
I compared the Sanken Cos-11 to the Tram TR-50 side by side. The dealer recommended the Sanken over the Tram. To my ears, the Tram sounded better. Then, the very well respected dealer compared the two and agreed. This was only one test, but I was surprised. |
This discussion is very interesting, and it seems to repeat several issues I raised myself recently on this and other forums.
1) HDV sound. How bad is it and how you can get away with it? As I have been doing several recordings for the same project using HDV and DV cameras at the same time, I must say it doesn't seem to be too much of a compromise... as long as you are recording just dialogue. 2) External recorder. You may notice a difference if you use an external recorder and sync the audio later, using the camera audio simply as a guide. This is valid both for HDV and DV. If possible use a mixer and send the same audio for recorder and cameras, as on some situations the camera audio quality will be fine and you can use it, simplifying your editing. You will need quality monitor speakers to check that. 3) TC or slate. Clap slating is disturbing when use for documentaries. You can sync audio and video later looking at the audio spectrum, like what Avid provides. If you are organized you can even clap your hands on camera when beginning or ending your shot, which may prove less disturbing. 4) Tram mics are very good, butthey proved a bit fragile for field work, in my experience. Several died on me after some time. This may be related to mic/cable strain, whi ch some interviewees tend to push. AKG, PSC and Sony sound very good and seem to be take most field situations better. |
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I prefer the top element in the Sanken. It's sound is a better match (for me) with the Shotgun mic. The real advantage is in being able to hide the mic. It fit's great taped between a woman's breasts or in the knot of a man's tie. I always grab the Sanken over the Tram both for it's sound and visability. |
Thanks Jim,
One of the most difficult things to track with lavs is their overall sound. The specific application determines the sound. In free air lavs sound one way, but that changes rather dramatically when (and how) they are attached on a person. Then there's how they sound plugged into different wireless xmitters. The front ends (preamps) of the xmitters vary widely. Some lavs sound better in some xmitters than others. Don't ask me for lists. I don't have them. Try it yourself. Clothing noise is another factor, but again, that's also pursuant to how they are mounted. Is it mic rub or cable rub noise? Not much you can do witth mic rub noise except move the mic. I'm going to make a B R O A D generalization here and suggest that if something rubs ANY lav directly, you're going to hear it. Cable noise, OTOH, may be mitigated or eliminated by G-taping a coil of lav cable close to the mic. Regards, Ty Ford |
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