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-   -   Voice recorders - new (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/all-things-audio/99304-voice-recorders-new.html)

Steven Davis July 19th, 2007 11:46 AM

Voice recorders - new
 
Well, I'm debating on getting another G2 system from sennheiser or going to a nice voice recorder.

When I called Sennheiser recently, they told me that my area was difficult for wireless due to the tv station power. My G2 system has been hit or miss it seems, so I was thinking of going to a voice recorder. I found the one below which looks pretty nice. I was just posting to get opinions on it or other ideas.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc..._Portable.html

Steven Davis July 19th, 2007 12:11 PM

Or I guess I could step up to a a system like http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...arch&Q=*&bhs=t

Ty Ford July 19th, 2007 12:20 PM

So, Sennehiser wireless mics are a problem in Richmond, Va?

I can't imagine that Richmond has worse RF problems than Balt or DC.

Do you have TV stations on all six consecutive channels?

Ther sets come in four frequency ranges.I'm going to guess yours is Range A, which is fairly crowded in Richmond. Range B (626-662MHz) is a lot better. Range C (740-776) looks pretty open. Range D (830-866) I don't know about.

So if you bought a Range A system, whoever sold it to you should have asked where you were. When you told them Richmond, VA, they should NOT have sold you Range A. Range B should work a lot better.

Regardless, the PITA recording to a remote medium and syncing to you video still doesn't necessarily solve your problem unless everyone is going hardwired with their own recorder and that, my friend, sound like a huge heradache in postproduction.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Greg Bellotte July 19th, 2007 12:58 PM

FWIW, I use Groups A and B all over the country (but not VA, sorry) and always manage to find open freqs. Always check your RX freq for activity before turning on your TX...the auto scan feature on the RX can help you with this...

I believe Group D is not for use in USA (even though it overlaps a few upper US channels), and although Group C is (and fairly open now...) this will change after the DigitalTV only transition in 2009. The 700 Mhz plan is going to change radically, and buying into Group C now could leave you in a range of a lot of interference, or worse TXing there illegally. Time will tell...

Of course with TV channels bunching up after the '09 switch, there's no guarantee that there wil be open channels in A or B either, as DTV doesn't have to leave a blank channel in-between stations like analog TV does.

Steven Davis July 19th, 2007 01:34 PM

Ty, Greg
 
I got the system from BHPHOTO, the 500 range. Here's the kicker, I had been having issue even with 4 free channels on the scan. So I called Sennheiser and explained what was going on. They told me that even if I have 4 free channels, on Bank 3, that I might still have interferance. They , Sennheiser, told me to use Bank 6. All the while I'm thinking, what the heck good is scanning if 4 free channels doesn't mean 'free.' Sigh. Thus my decision to look into a system that could partner with my G2 system.

Today I called Lectrosonics to verify what the BHPHOTO dude said today. Lectrosonics told me to try and get a 100 series system from them that is on Block 22, and wouldn't you know it, they're out of stock.

Richmond's a beast Ty, it's crazy. Feel free to drop in if you're ever in the area and we can do some scanning. :}

Ty Ford July 19th, 2007 01:50 PM

Thanks Steven,

If I get down there, I'll reach out if I have time.

Group A defintitely looked thick. But B looked pretty promising. You're sure it's TV stations?

Most wireless will wander a bit in time. Have you had them long enough to need a tweek?
Like maybe 3 years?

Regards,

Ty

Steven Davis July 19th, 2007 02:17 PM

Hmmm, I think I've had this system just over a year. My wife points out that a lot of our problems with the mic have been out doors. So, I'm still hacking away at the idea. Thanks for your continual ideas.

Ty Ford July 19th, 2007 02:23 PM

Out of doors would indicate some sort of airborn hooey.

Which group do you have A, B, C or D?

Ty Ford

Greg Bellotte July 19th, 2007 03:37 PM

Steven,

You've stumbled onto one of the (many) reasons I think the 500 series is worth the extra coin. The 100's have eight banks of 4 channels for only 32 presets out of a possible 1440 freqs. That's an incredibly small sampling IMO. The 500's have eight banks of 20 presets, so more places to scan. You can use all of the 1440 possibilities, even on the 100 series by going to the user bank, bank "U". In this bank you can store any 4 freqs of your choosing. The key would be spending a little time to find four that are open, and storing them for later use...

Greg Bellotte July 19th, 2007 03:43 PM

Steven,

While I'm thinking about it...try this freq chart from sennheiser...

http://www.sennheiserusa.com/newsite...VIRGINIAew.PDF

If it's acurate (many times they aren't) it would indicate that any freq between 518-530, or 536-548 Mhz will prob not be usable due to TV stations broadcasting in that spectrum. If you are using channels in these ranges, they might be working fine indoors. Your building could be preventing the interference while inside, but you would get more interference while outdoors. Always check for free channels *WHERE* you will be using the mics.

Brooks Harrington July 19th, 2007 07:00 PM

Make sure your pilot tone is on.

Steven Davis July 20th, 2007 07:36 PM

Well, my mic is 518-544MHz, which is what Sennheiser says is the best for my area.

I was running with my pilot off because I've heard mixed results with it, but I'll give it a whirl with it on, we'll see how it goes.

As for the free channels, I can scan for channels, come up with 4 free and then still get dropouts. I'm giving this thing one more whirl, then if it fails, I'll step up in my mic, probably to a lectrosonic.

Sennheiser sent me this chart www.audiopark.net/sec_beta I used it called them about teh 700 freq, eheh, they told me that that was being actioned off by the FCC. I doubt I have the dough. :}

Charles Papert July 21st, 2007 05:04 AM

Regarding the original question, I just got this.

While lacking many features of the higher end recorders (including playback), it is interesting in that it records via USB, i.e. pocket drive or even iPod. 5 levels of recording quality up to WAV. Supplied mike is useless for all but voice/memo dictation, but can take an external mike (or line inputs, including turntable pre-amp!). Interface is clunky but gets the job done. And a price leader around $135. So far it has worked perfectly the few times I've used it.

Ty Ford July 21st, 2007 06:04 AM

Steven,

That's just plain nuts. No Wonder! Look at the chart! In Richmond you have four out of six blocks covered by TV stations in that range. Who at Sennheiser did you speak to and at what office?

The only open ranges you have are 530-536 and 548-554. Shift your mics there and try them.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Steven Davis July 21st, 2007 06:40 AM

Yep, Ty, I called Sennheiser before, during and after, each time they tell me that the range I have is the best. I figure if you can't rely on the manufacture.........hehe. I guess this is why he told me bank 6. But if I continue to have problems, I'll get something else.

Ty, One person I have been in contact with at Sennheiser is Benjamin Escobedo; Associate Product Manager - Music Industry Team, he's the last person I think.

Ty Ford July 21st, 2007 08:26 AM

Sennheiser in Old Lyme, CT?

And they knew you were shooting IN RICHMOND, VA?
(not Richmond, WA?)

Try those frequencies I suggested and see how they work.

Regards,

Ty

Steven Davis July 21st, 2007 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ty Ford (Post 716234)
Sennheiser in Old Lyme, CT?

And they knew you were shooting IN RICHMOND, VA?
(not Richmond, WA?)

Try those frequencies I suggested and see how they work.

Regards,

Ty

Yeah Ty, we did look up based on my zip code.

I'm going to give it a try today. We shall see. Thanks for the advice.

Steven Davis July 22nd, 2007 08:53 AM

Update
 
Well, it appears that I'll be stepping up the ol'e mic. I only had a couple of dropouts, but it was enough for me to be really annoyed with it. There was no drop out that was supercritical, and it could have been the 40 people with their cell cameras.

So I'll probably touch base again with lectrosonics to see what 'block' I should get. They originally told me I should get block 22 from the, but they are out of stock.

So I just posted the update to say thanks as well.

Steven Davis July 23rd, 2007 11:21 AM

Well after calling Lectrosonics and a distributor or two, here's where I am now. One dude at 'a store' told me that the Lectrosonics 100 series is the equivalent to the Sennheiser 100 series. I thought to myself, well yea, except for that extra 500.00 dollars. Hehe. So I called Lectro with my new information and they agreed that if my Sennheiser 100 is having issues, then I would have the same with thier 100 series.

So the next step would be well over 2k for one of the 400 series, or I can roll the dice with a 100 series from Lectrosonic system.

This is one fun journey.

Jim Boda July 23rd, 2007 11:52 AM

Hey Steven,

I'm just curious... how and where do you normally mount your transmitter in relationship to your receiver?

Steven Davis July 23rd, 2007 12:22 PM

Well, either in the small of the back, or on the side, tried various ways. My receiver is mounted on the back of my camera, via velcro to the battery.

Jim Boda July 23rd, 2007 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Davis (Post 717214)
Well, either in the small of the back, or on the side, tried various ways. My receiver is mounted on the back of my camera, via velcro to the battery.

Do you have both Antennae in a vertical plane? And what's your average distance between them?

Steven Davis July 23rd, 2007 01:28 PM

My antenna is usually facing down, and I have heard that maybe up should be better, but with video that's not always possible.

As for my distance, the last interference I had was less than 100 feet line of site, out of no where it came and left.

Jim Boda July 23rd, 2007 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Davis (Post 717255)
My antenna is usually facing down, and I have heard that maybe up should be better, but with video that's not always possible.

As for my distance, the last interference I had was less than 100 feet line of site, out of no where it came and left.

Hmmmm... Did you do a walk around distance test before the shoot to find if your range had an edge?

Do the dropouts happen only after the trans/rec have been on for a while? I had an Audio Limited transmitter that kept going out...I finally bagged it and put it in the freezer for a couple of minutes and it immediately worked. As the transmitter was heating up...the frequency started to drift on the unit.

Steven Davis July 23rd, 2007 03:06 PM

Yeah, I did a walk around, etc, I have no consistent pattern of dropouts. I'm not sure bout teh time, I'm sure they dropouts have occured within an hour of turning the system on.

Steven Davis July 25th, 2007 06:28 AM

Well, the lectro system should arrive this Friday. I'll run both at my next gig, and the one that comes out clean, stays in the bag.. Thanks for all the help, I'll update later.

Steve House July 25th, 2007 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Davis (Post 718242)
Well, the lectro system should arrive this Friday. I'll run both at my next gig, and the one that comes out clean, stays in the bag.. Thanks for all the help, I'll update later.

Which units did you order?

Steven Davis July 25th, 2007 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve House (Post 718277)
Which units did you order?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc..._Wireless.html

Given that my ideal block of 22 is out of stock, Lectro told me that 21 would good. We shall see.

Steven Davis August 5th, 2007 07:21 PM

Update - and man was this fun
 
Well, Friday night, the night before the wedding I took my G2 system, my new Lectrosonics UCR100 system, and the replacement G2 from Sennheiser out to the site. For the first hour or so I was working with the Lectrosonics sales dude, his name is John. We tried several, ok maybe many frequencies in conjunction with my G2 system. The best we could get was occasional dropouts. So about an hour and a half into my testing, I was left with my typical G2 type dropouts, random, having mostly to do with movement of either the transmitter or receiver.

So before I left I figured I would hook up the replacement G2 system, (same block as the other two systems) and see if I could get it to register. Ends up, the only way I could get the replacement G2 system to work was to put it on the exact same frequency as my other one, (which told me it was functioning fine.) But I couldn't find a frequency to work in conjunction with the other two, my old G2 and the lectro system.

The end of it all is, I'm not sure at this point. I'm sending the Lectro system back because after the ceremony, I had more drops with it than the frequency my G2 system was on. I'm sure this was because it was on a weaker frequency, but I'm just guessing.

So I guess for now, I'll have to do some more researching and working with the Lectro people. Hopefully they can find a block that will work for me.

And by the way, I was able to pick up, clear as a bell, a radio station on the G2 system. The frequency was in the middle of the band.

Just wanted to update. Thanks for reading, leave a dollar on your way out. :}

Ty Ford August 5th, 2007 07:33 PM

Thanks Steven,

Again, I think the B block would bebetter for you.

Ty

Steven Davis October 16th, 2007 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ty Ford (Post 724020)
Thanks Steven,

Again, I think the B block would bebetter for you.

Ty

Ok Ty, you get the prize. I'm not sure what the prize is, but you get it what ever it is. Hopefully it has 1/4 ccds.

Since the long trial with my Block A system, I have since gotten rid of it and now have two Block B systems. When I scan with the B system, I am now getting twice if not three times the free channels I was getting with my A system. I've not tested it everywhere yet, but it appears that the Block B is better in terms of available channels.

I can honestly say, the reason I bought my second B System was because of the quality service and assistance I received from the peoples at Sennheiser.

Ty Ford October 16th, 2007 02:08 PM

Hello Steven,

Well yahoo! You owe me at least one dirty martini; half gin, half vodka, three olives, shaken not stirred.

Be aware that unless you have a nuclear powered scanner, you may still need to nudge frequencies. I just went through that here. 540 MHz looked good on the charts and the scanner. Range, however, sucked. I bumped up to 540.3 and got 4 times the range. FOUR TIMES.

Nothing in the scanner told me enough. You'd need a spectrum analyzer with accumulation to show all that. Interference can be so breif that the scanner doesn't see it at the moment it scans the exact frequency. A millisecond later something goes "squibiejbciej" and it gets into your audio. Having a full spectrum analyzer that shows accumulation over time lets you see this stuff.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Mark Utley October 16th, 2007 02:51 PM

There's not much need for it here in Saskatoon, where wireless interference is usually not a problem, but how much does it cost for a quality spectrum analyzer?

Steven Davis October 16th, 2007 02:55 PM

Hey Ty, sorry, all I have is Jack and Coke...... As for the spectrum analyzer, I really need to pay my mortgage bill. Thanks again.

Steve House October 16th, 2007 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Utley (Post 759931)
There's not much need for it here in Saskatoon, where wireless interference is usually not a problem, but how much does it cost for a quality spectrum analyzer?

Don't know if this is what Ty has is mind, but Optoelectronics has a nifty portable unit for $1600 US. Not cheap, but if you got a several kilobucks of wireless gear on your cart it isn't too unreasonable.

Ty Ford October 16th, 2007 07:11 PM

Steven,

Gotta be a martini. Anything else is poison to my system.

I don't have a spectrum analyzer of any sort, but Audio-Technica sent a couple of folks out earlier this year annd it was very nice. Don't know what it was, but it showed the accumulation of hots over time.

Don't know if it'd be worth your while to get one, but it might be if your job depended on it every day.

Regards,

Ty Ford


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