Thanks Chris.

Redrock's published design and the groundglass they supply is probably the best way to go from scratch otherwise there's a lot of wasted time and effort just getting the GG right.

My generic formula for the PD150 and a 24mm wide image off the groundglass.

Nikon lens mount >> (46.5mm to rear face of groundglass) >> groundglass (with aluminium oxide 5 micron finish) >> (approx. 5" or 125mm distance) >> Century Optics 7+ achromatic dioptre >> PD150.

For a closer couple between camera and groundglass you can substitute a stronger dioptre but good ones are hard to find. You need at least 44mm exit pupil on the dioptre or it will vignette. The alternative is to use a 58mm to 72mm step-up ring to fit 72mm diam dioptres made for the Brevis and SGPro. .

My chosen parts are determined by my also fitting a prism pair between the GG and dioptre which requires this distance along the optical axis.

Jim Lafferty also published a design and how-to instruction set on his website but I don't know if it still up. Both the Redrock and his design used electroncs project boxes.

Ok, so the GG of Redrock will do great. That's good. Now, Bob, what's that "with aluminium oxide 5 micron finish". Is that an another thing I have to add? I heard the GG Redrock gives is just a CD-R. Is it? 'cause I would save the money and buy it from Frys.

"My chosen parts are determined by my also fitting a prism pair between the GG and dioptre which requires this distance along the optical axis."
Is this for flipping the image?
Also... the Century Optics Achromats seem too expensive for my budget. do you think any of theese may do the work? Or do you know of any other solution?
http://www.surplusshed.com/pages/cat...hromats_1.html

And I couldn't get the "electroncs project boxes" thing. Is that a brand?
Thanks!

I had a quick look only.



http://www.surplusshed.com/pages/item/l3719.html

Very likely to vignette as the exit pupil is smaller than 44mm.


http://www.surplusshed.com/pages/item/l3841.html

Very likely to be okay, depending on condition, but may not get you close enough to the groundglass on max zoom to get inside hotspot.


http://www.surplusshed.com/pages/item/l3861.html

Might be okay but you would have to experiment with how close or far from the camcorder lens you put it to eliminate the edge distortion. Take care not to allow it to make contact with your PD150 lens otherwise the PD150 lens may be permanently damaged by scratching.

All will likely require an appliance which is 4" or longer from GG to camcorder.

Redrock's disk is already a groundglass and likely to be close to AO5 grade finish. It should require no furthur work. I believe it may be acrylic not glass, so be careful not to scratch it or put fingerprints on it. Protect that groundglass surface like gold.

If it gets dust on it, unless you have a lens brush or canned air, leave the dust there as any polish marks will show as a flicker. The dust will disappear when the disk spins or fly off. Don't go near the groundlgass surrface with a lens pen. Email Redrock to find out for sure.

CD-Rs with a home-made finish are very hard to get an even finish around the entire disk and will likely flicker with a variable density artifact. Easier to buy in the pre-made part.

The newer ones are also of a very durable plastic and harder to get a good surface finish on as they are formulated to resist scratching.

The prism pair is for image flip. The necessary size of the prisms means you need about 5" of optical centre axis. the prisms fold the optical centre axis back on itself, thus shortening the appliance length.

If the path is too short, you can't get the camcorder close enough to the GG, so a 7+ power dioptre is about as strong as you can go for a flip version for the PD150.

A project box is a plastic or aluminium box with a lid which fastens on with four or more small screws. Hobbyists build electronic kits like pre-amplifiers or metal detectors inside of them. Electrical junction boxes are another similar product. I don't know who retails electronic kits in your country.

My 35mm Adapter
 

Hi all! This is my first post and i've been a reader for a few months now so i'm happy to finaly be part of this community! As a francophone from Montréal, please excuse my grammar!

I want to show off my 35mm project I made thanks to you guys. I got the concept out of the mediachance website and all the valuable technical knowledge from all from you.

It is made from 1/4 inch MDF (wood). Made 3 pannels, one for the lens, one for the cd to spin and one for the macro, then I made a box with the rest! Since my mic was hidden by the box, I bought a mic and put in on the box so I have no interference from the mecanism inside the box!

Here is the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LN3yF...elated&search=

If it dosent work, check out Daref93, I have 2 videos posted! I posted some pics but dont know where they ended up?!?!

Thanks to you all for making this project worth while! I am so happy with the results! Have a nice day and wish you success in your project!

Jonathan

You have every reason to be well pleased with your efforts.

Unless you created your fades with closing the aperture on your front lens, there is some observable pass-through of aerial image during the fades.

You can observe this on the very last few frames of the last fade when the window frame becomes sharp.

This however would also happen if you close the iris for a fade as the depth-of-field would increase at the same time so it may not be pass-through at all - a bit hard to judge on YouTube resolution.

It looks good and that is all that counts.

You have achieved an even finish. I did not detect flicker so the coarse finish and dressing of the disk with hand-lotion seems to have worked well.

Don't alter the adaptor you now have if you seek to improve it. Instead, make a new one so that you can continue to enjoy what you already have.

My 35mm adapter
 

Hello Bob!

Sanding down the CD to 320 grit, the hand lotion...it did a wonder to my machine. My clip was edited with Premier Pro so all the transitions was from there, color correction was from Magic Bullet in After Effects. Funy you observed this, I never saw it and you are right, it tends to go in focus! I shot this with a handycam, a DCR-HC8! So my next adapter will be for a DVX! (In my dreams!) Thanks for the comments, and thanks too all of you guys who made it possible!

Jonathan

Do to the good computer now longer being the good computer, I shall be quiet and muted for a while as I have had to revert to the dial-up mule train on an even older one.

Downloads and uploads of clips and long techie messages is out of the question for the time being until the finances permit repair or replacement and time is available to re-install everything. Other priorities compete so it will be a while.

Regards to all.

Sony Z1p/agus35 Versus Jvc Gy Hd100/mini35
 

Here's a link to a prelim version of a clip shot to demo the JVC GY HD100/MINI35 combination at product days at Curtin Uni and FTI Fremantle. The audio is a bit gappy in the last half and this posted version should not be held representative of the final version of the clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aabJj2EED38

I shot shadow footage of the shoot on the Sony Z!P/AGUS35 which can be found below, a link I have posted previously.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cu46tmYmRY0

I think I may have a little work to do on the AGUS35 yet and my need to wear my close-up glasses next time I want to look at the LCD viewfinder is well demonstrated in my shadow clip.

Here's a link to a low-light test I did whilst also location testing for a project. The lenses used were the Sigma for Nikon f1.8 20mm and the legendary Nikon f1.4 28mm, which is regarded by some as a "noct" lens. It was a loaner. They are pretty heavy costwise.

The brightcove recode seems to have dropped the 16:9 aspect ratio so I will have to re-do it sometime.

http://www.brightcove.com/title.jsp?title=1155181078

If you like easy listening all acoustic music of the Neil Young genre, here's a link to a clip just finished and posted to YouTube.


Techspec :

2 x Sony HVR-Z1P direct-to-camera.
2 x sony HVR-Z1P plus AGUS35.

One AGUS35 was the Century Optics 4+ long setback arrangement.
The other was the Century Optics 7+ close-coupled arrangement.

There was a path alignment problem with the long setback version which will be evident with the f2.8 14mm wide shots. It shows in the YouTube post which is in effect an underscan image. It does not show in the normal TV safe area.


FOOTNOTE: Clip has been taken down from YouTube by the user. I'll post new URL when it is restored.

FOOTNOTE TO FOOTNOTE: The clip has been uploaded to here :-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eOPz08uLcI

Lenses used were Nikon f1.4 85mm, Nikon f1.2 55mm, Sigma for Nikon f2.8 14mm.

RE: The above message.
 

Looks like the clip has been taken down again for furthur polishing. I think there has been a couple of colour grades done on it since it first went up.

The Youtube user name for search is "johngeopix" It will be on the bottom of the list of clips. Have a look at the Wise Family with Andy Irvine music clip if you like old country music. It is not groundglass work but worth a listen regardless.

The clip is back up again at the same address

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eOPz08uLcI

Sorry for the confusions.

Weekend Quality Time
 

At this address is a short behind the scenes of a short movie, "TEARS IN THE RAIN", in production with the JVC GY HD100/Mini35, Skater Dolly, filmed on Sony HVR Z1P with Agus35.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXBjmXkwec8

Groundglass v/s aerial image for long lenses,
 

I just spent the better part of today filming some stocks of the Red Bull Air Race - can't publish as IMG Entertainment will shut the clip down. They have a lot invested in bringing this event to the world so it is understandable if a little frustrating.

Instead of removing the GG I left it in place, too lazy to set up the backfocus and everything again. I mainly wanted the support events for local pilots involved. This version of the device is the 4+ achromatic dioptre long setback setup.

I also kept the GG in because with the 4+ there would have been a distinct vignette in aerial image.

Here's the conundrum. The groundglass images despite the f6.3 narrow end of the Sigma 50mm-500mm look better and sharper than aerial image. Because verything bent and warped through trying to follow very agile aircraft, I picked up the bottom corner of the disk when things shifted.

If the Red Bull Air Race comes your way next year, take a look.

Message For Agus Casse
 

Agus.


If you are still out there somewhere, could you email me through dvinvo.

Do you have access to webcam for speaking to a forum about your first groundglass machine and how you made it? Would you want to talk about this?


Regards.

Bob Hart.

For those with an interest, here is a link to a clip shot on the Agus35 with a Sigma f4-f63 50mm-500mm zoom lens of a recent aerobatic display. An aperture of f6.3 is in the red zone for most groundglass imaging.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gnLzWVxdnI

There are a few things wrong with the image, firstly the prism block got dusted and there are some marks in the image, secondly, the rods and bridgeplate arrangement I have fell in the vehicle and disrupted the Agus35 so the bottom left corner of the groundglass is also in the image as well as the edge falloff from the prism path on the left.

Although the edge of the disk, complete with fingerprints is in the frame and the disk running only at about 1500 rpm, there is very little flicker, which is one saving grace of large diameter disk adaptors which will tolerate higher shutter speeds.

Once IMG Entertainment get wind of this, they will probably block the clip so it may not be up for long.

More weekend quality time.
 

Here is a link to a later clip of behind the scenes of "Tears In The Rain", a short feature which has just wrapped.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KZayueFxcQ

The footage is of the second last day of the shoot, some well rehearsed enactment of gratuitous violence.

The production camera is a JVC GY-100 wearing a P+S Technik Mini35-400.

The behind-the-scenes footage was shot with a Sony HVRZ1P, some with AGUS35 with Nikon 35mm, some direct-to-camera.

I hope this is the proper place for me to post this question. I've recently started to learn more about enhancing the quality of my video and I decided to purchase this lens for my GL2:

http://www.schneideroptics.com/Ecomm...D=1462&IID=855

which will allow me to natively film in 16:9. I've been wanting to build a 35mm/DOF adapter and my question is as follows:

Is it possible to build such an adapter and use this lens at the same time? More importantly, does it even make sense to use this lens in conjunction with a 35 mm adapter?

I ultimately want to be able to both use the features of a DOF adapter AND film natively in 16:9. I guess I'm not experienced enough in this area to know if such a concoction is viable or logical.

Diverting the subject probably is not good form but if it is limited to one question and one reply it should not hurt.

The wranglers will intervene if it becomes a problem. If you want to get into a more lengthy discourse of several posts then maybe it should be raised as a new topic.

Short answer to your question, the 16:9 adaptor will work with some caveats. I have tested with a PD150 and home made AGUS35 adaptor. The PD150 is optically very similar to the GL2. I think the same offset between CCD centre and optical centre exists.

The adaptor has to go on front of the still-camera lens which is attached to the 35mm adaptor.

The SLR must be one on which the front of the lens barrel does not rotate when being focussed because the 16:9 adaptor will turn with it.

A custom adaptor mount has to be made for each prime lens whcih has a different size filter thread diameter.

There were two styles to the 16:9 adaptor, one with custom PD150 bayonet mount, another with 58mm filter thread mount. Threaded mount is easier with only simple step-up rings required, however these must be parallel face type otherwise the 16:9 is set too far forward of the lens it fits to and the optical performance will go off.

The image area off the groundglass has to be about 22mm to 24mm wide, no larger.

It will work for the basic set of primes, 28mm, 50mm and 85mm with a little bit of vignette on the 28mm. These represent the zoom range for which the 16:9 adaptor was designed except for the wide end.

The sharpness starts to go off with the 85mm and the 135mm whilst it will work is unacceptably soft. There is a softer return on ther other lenses which you should expect when adding more glass and stretching the image.

There is an artifact introduced to out-of-focus areas as you also observe with film anamorphic, soft foreground is stretched one way, soft background is stretched in another.

Have a look at this image :-

http://www.dvinfo.net/media/hart/agu...20filmlook.JPG

which is two grabs which were colour corrected by the process published here at dvinfo. - also

http://www.dvinfo.net/media/hart/aguscne1.JPG

done with a Proskar anamorphic projection lens for 16mm film - vignettes on wider than 50mm.

www.dvinfo.net/media/hart

is an undisciplined and random collection of images which go right back to my own first simple experiments with sanded microscope slides, pringles cans and rolled up socks jammed in the ends to hold the lenses and the camera together.

I abandoned this approach as it denied me too many lens choices.

If you still want to go this route there are two more files for you to look at :-

www.dvinfo.net/media/hart/agus3516.pdf

and

www.dvinfo.net/media/hart/agus3516b.pdf.

Both illustrate a way of building the PD150 adaptor for the Century Optics 16:9 for the Micro-Nikkor lens.

Time to slide this historical icon of a thread back to the top of the heap and also to advise those who might vaguely recall, I shot some shadow footage of a feature project, The Eleventh Soldier and posted a clip on Brightcove in about January last year.

The trailer for The Eleventh Soldier has been updated and can be found at this address :-

http://www.cinemascorestudios.com/th...ldier/home.htm

The shadow footage can be seen at this address :-

http://www.brightcove.com/title.jsp?title=572028460

or at Youtube :-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-Kfupy53s0

The home-made AGUS35 I built some time back, finally got its first serious gig on Wednesday on a local shoot of a small feature. It was third camera for an action scene.

It also showed its true contrary form and a hasty jerry-rig of gaffer tape, a thick pine stick harvested from the forest floor and part of the tripod mount was needed to deal with slump in the case which was causing a top edge of the prism path to vignette.

Maybe now I'll pull my finger out and rebuild the case as one piece instead of all the cuts and joins it now has due to trimming and rebuilding over time and experimentation

The main cam is a JVC GY-HD100/P+S Technik Mini35 combination. There was a second HD100 as back-up shooting direct-to-camera. There was also a pyro-guy who set things in the ground to explode and throw up debris.

An enjoyable day for all.

A Kinoptik 9.8mm f1.8 also got its first use here on the Mini35 for the same project. The lens is actually a rebarrelled and geared version by Century Optics, already fitted with a PL Mount.

As was the caution by a competent DoP here, this lens does have corner brightness falloff and requires careful lighting to light evenly. With that attended to, it works well in a confined space like a small office.

Sabc Fly-in 2008. Agus35 And P+s Technik Mini35
 

For those with an interest in things both groundglass and aviation, this address leads to a rough and ready assembly of some footage shot this weekend at Serpentine in Western Australia.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-FrlHKsurs

The very first aircraft and last two aircraft were shot using the Mini35. All other footage was via the Agus35. The lens was a Sigma 50mm- 500mm f4 - f6.3 zoom with an optical doubler. Due to the possibility of clash of internal optics, the Sigma lens becomes locked into 200mm - 1000mm range when the doubler is fitted.

The available aperture range becomes tightened to the ballpark of f5.6 -f8, which is hostile territory for groundglass work against light bright overcast which prevailed on the day.

Artifacts were observable with both groundglass systems however did not impact adversely on the images. The Mini35 is observably sharper than my own device.

Except for the ability to reach furthur than the lens-in-camera Sony Z1 camera type used, there is limited amenity in using such a long lens except perhaps to beat the tub and say it can be done. Following a dynamic subject with 1000mm offers some challenges.

Its amazing, how come over the past 5 years, this proyect have grow up that much, i recently read an article ina magazine and found out that there are many companies now making new adapters from what at the beginning just a proyect.

Thanks Bob, to still keep this thread growing, i would love to come back to the project again, with a new model, lets see whats happens this year.

Agus.


Long time no see. Welcome back. Having you walk this thread is a bit like Francis Ford Coppola posting on Zoetrope's "The Virtual Studio" website.

My guess is that the days of groundglass image relay as a professional level production tool are probably numbered.

It's been an interesting ride. I'll bet you never imagined just how far people would pick up and go with what you started off.

The new Nikon and Canon digital stills cameras have become video capable. They have much room to improve but it will come. The RED and Kinor 4K fullframe sensor motion video cameras and others which come along wait for more capable computers and storage able to handle 4K images so for low-budget film makers, there is time for the groundglass relay adaptor yet.

"death bet" (formerly worktitled "the cage").
 

You may have recalled my previous posts on a local indie, then worktitled "The Cage", created on the JVC-GY-HD100 camera system.

The DVD version has found a home on Netflix as "Death Bet".

The feature was shot direct-to-camera. Some of the "behind-the-scenes" footage was shot
on a Sony HVR-Z1P with an early version home-made AGUS35 35mm adaptor.

How much of the adaptor footage was used in the featurette if any I don't know.

The revised trailer can be seen on YouTube at this web address :-

YouTube - Death Bet

Tribute to the 35mm lens adapter
 

I just want to post this clip which I made using a DIY spinning adapter as a sort of tribute to the DIY spirit started by this thread which inspired me to start making mine in 2004.


Shot with JVC HD200 with 2 lenses, a 50 and 80-200.

Originally intended only as an audition reel, this clip was selected to represent my province for the first time in a Film Festival in the capital of my country last week, Cinema Rehiyon 2010.

Ted.


A fitting tribute.

Has the medium format adaptor gone back into the back storeroom with all the old plate camera bits and pieces for the grandchildren to discover one day or do you still use it?

Hi Bob!

I have finally put together a Camera museum, on our 2nd floor, since schools often come for a visit, I got tired of setting the old cameras out and putting them away after the tour,
I have on display and cataloged different cameras that our family have used, the oldest which is a hundred year old korona from manchester optical and some glass plate negatives I managed to rescue.

I have a glass case reserved for the MID FORMAT adapter prototype that I made in 2004, I think it deserves a place in our history that once upon a time such devices were contrived to help filmmaker achieve the DOF control not possible with the prosumer lever cameras of the time.

Having used the canon 7d on several high paying high profile projects recently, I think the phase of the adapter is coming to an end. It deserves its own glass showcase.

Ted

Re: Homemade 35mm Adapter
 

A bit of a venture in history back I dug up off an old drive. Who back then would have thought that 35mm adaptors would have become feather dusters so soon.


I shot this short assembly of behind-the-scenes shots of a local indie low-budget project on a home made flip 35mm adaptor I called the AGUS35APVE. It was mounted onto a Sony HVR-Z1P camera with 12mm - 24mm Nikon, and 50mm and 85mm Nikon primes. For my own curiosity, I desaturated and roughly graded the image for the sort of cold hard look I thought would fit the fight scenes.

The fiklm-makers kept the look of the JVC GY-HD101 camera they shot the project on.

Re: Homemade 35mm Adapter
 

For a bit of a reminisce to history back - how few years it has been. The groundglass adaptors discussed on this forum established a general consumer discontent with 1/3" sensors, then the digital cinema cameras had their genesis here on dvinfo and gave the big players that final message that developmental holdback was not going to cut it anymore.

Anyway, here's some student clips shot on the original Sony DSR PD150 and an AGUS35 homemade 35mm groundglass adaptor in 2005.





All the best to everyone for the rest of the New Year.

Re: Homemade 35mm Adapter
 

Tsai.

This is the thread which started the whole alternative 35mm adaptor thing off. P+S Technik's Mini35/Pro35 series were the initial benchmark The final evolutions of the alternative products were capable of coming up to or meeting 2K real world resolution if very carefully managed.

Re: Homemade 35mm Adapter
 

It would seem there is life in the old adaptor dog yet. A young guy has taken the "Coatwolf" camera setup a notch furthur. Interestingly, he has used a reflective relay arrangement rather than a translucent groundglass and compensated for the inevitable off-axis relay focus issue by using a tilt-shift lens. Modern DSLR cameras have a lot more sensitivity to play with to compensate for the savage light loss of this reflective arrangement.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Zix...14928293732058