4:4:4 10bit single CMOS HD project

Rob Scott · August 31st, 2004, 02:15 PM

Check out the development blog -- I got the LCC1 ("Color interpolated image using Laplacian second-order color correction I") algorithm working! I put a sample image up that you can download, plus the same image as a pre-Bayer TIFF.

Joshua Starnes · August 31st, 2004, 02:50 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Rob Scott : Check out the development blog -- I got the LCC1 ("Color interpolated image using Laplacian second-order color correction I") algorithm working! I put a sample image up that you can download, plus the same image as a pre-Bayer TIFF. -->>>

It looks good, but it's awful green. It seems like you're using the LCC1 as your Bayer filter? Is the green normal when the image has only been Bayered?

Rob Scott · August 31st, 2004, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Joshua Starnes wrote:
It looks good, but it's awful green. It seems like you're using the LCC1 as your Bayer filter? Is the green normal when the image has only been Bayered?

Yes, that image is using LCC1. I'm guessing the green cast is normal and it just needs color correction, but I don't know that for sure.

Obin Olson · August 31st, 2004, 03:01 PM

I don't see the image what is the name Rob?

also Steve:

Steve I would be very happy to do that with the ground glass BUT..this chip is so much less sensitive then the 1300 I am really not sure we would get anything that could be used professionaly from it..if it was the same as the 1300 it would work...argg ;)

Rob Scott · August 31st, 2004, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Obin Olson wrote:
I don't see the image what is the name ROb?

pixel_pcc1.tif

Obin Olson · August 31st, 2004, 03:14 PM

not bad Rob not bad...

Juan M. M. Fiebelkorn · August 31st, 2004, 04:26 PM

What camera are you using?

Obin Olson · August 31st, 2004, 04:27 PM

I think I have made my mind up.

I am going to use the 1300chip for now and make a working prototype camera with case LCD screens software etc as a proof-of-concept and use it as much as I can to work all the real-world bugs out for production work...maybe even shoot a short film with it..by this time the Altasense will be out and I can buy that camera/chip and upgrade from 32bit pci ->64bit pci-x. I will buy the micro board now that has 64bit so that it is ready when the new chip and 64bit grabber are out..does anyone see any problems with this plan?

This will give me :

A: a working camera less the smear factor
B: keep things moving along even though it is not the final hardware so that I will be ready when the stuff is on the market from Silicon Imaging

Juan M. M. Fiebelkorn · August 31st, 2004, 04:28 PM

You are on the right direction!!!!
The pentium M motherboard you mean?

Steve Nordhauser · August 31st, 2004, 05:14 PM

Obin, sounds like a good plan. It will also solve a big question for the group - is the 1300 smear managable in a real shoot? The only value in the 1300/3300 is in cost. Certainly people who can afford to move to the Altasens when it is out should do so. You will be doing the people who need to build a <$5K system a big service.

When I have real ship dates on the SI-1920HD and 64 bit Epix FG, I'll let everyone know.

Rob Scott · August 31st, 2004, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Juan M. M. Fiebelkorn wrote:
What camera are you using?

I'm using the SI-1300.

Obin Olson · August 31st, 2004, 08:16 PM

what is that hefty pricetag on the Altasense Steve?

Joshua Starnes · August 31st, 2004, 09:42 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Steve Nordhauser : Obin, sounds like a good plan. It will also solve a big question for the group - is the 1300 smear managable in a real shoot? The only value in the 1300/3300 is in cost. Certainly people who can afford to move to the Altasens when it is out should do so. You will be doing the people who need to build a <$5K system a big service. -->>>

This is what a lot of people on the board are looking for. As nice as working with an Altasens, a lot of people watching this thread are prosumer camera users (like me) who are looking for a way to increase production value without increasing our costs. For people like that, a sub $10,000 just isn't a practical reality. A sub $5,000 camera is just about doable, with a lot of scrimping and saving. If the smear problems turn out to be managable, that's something a lot of us will be willing to deal with.

Jason Rodriguez · August 31st, 2004, 11:00 PM

BTW, Just for pricing info,

I'm blocking out $12,000 for a proposal I'm putting together to build a camera around the Altasens-based SI-1920/EPIX 64-bit card and a custom-built enclosure that should be somewhat ergonomic.

As of right now though, there's a very real possiblity that I'll be directing a project in October, which will require quite a bit of pre-production this next month-and-a-half, so I won't be building anything till this shoot is over-which seems good, because it seems as though the parts won't be available till then either!

Rob Lohman · September 1st, 2004, 03:47 AM

Steve: in response to your question regarding my field of view
note on the 3300 I wrote the following which I think you missed:

Quote:

Regarding the 3300 and FoV. If the full width of the chip is 2048
and you only sample 1920 you will loose a bit of the fiel of view.
Depth of Field will slightly change as well. Or was this the chip
with fractional row skipping or am I mixing up the AltaSens. One
of these had fractional skipping so to not reduce FoV, the other
didn't. And you would have to scale in software to keep the FoV.

You wrote earlier in the thread:

Quote:

If you are already going to use the ground glass for DOF, can you use the SI-3300 in 1280x720 windows? It would run at the same speed as the SI-1300 (same clock speed and frame rate) without the smear. Less sensitive, of course, due to the smaller pixel size. Less DOF without the ground glass. The reason the data rate is so high on the 3300 is that you are using it in 1920x1080 mode and that is a lot of data.

So I assume my point from above is valid in that the 3300
can't do the fractional skipping but the AltaSens can?

August 31st, 2004, 02:15 PM	#1546
Rob Scott Major Player Join Date: May 2004 Location: Knoxville, TN (USA) Posts: 358	Software update Check out the development blog -- I got the LCC1 ("Color interpolated image using Laplacian second-order color correction I") algorithm working! I put a sample image up that you can download, plus the same image as a pre-Bayer TIFF.

August 31st, 2004, 02:50 PM	#1547
Joshua Starnes Major Player Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 356	Re: Software update <<<-- Originally posted by Rob Scott : Check out the development blog -- I got the LCC1 ("Color interpolated image using Laplacian second-order color correction I") algorithm working! I put a sample image up that you can download, plus the same image as a pre-Bayer TIFF. -->>> It looks good, but it's awful green. It seems like you're using the LCC1 as your Bayer filter? Is the green normal when the image has only been Bayered?

August 31st, 2004, 05:14 PM	#1555
Steve Nordhauser Silicon Imaging, Inc. Join Date: May 2004 Location: Troy, NY USA Posts: 325	Obin, sounds like a good plan. It will also solve a big question for the group - is the 1300 smear managable in a real shoot? The only value in the 1300/3300 is in cost. Certainly people who can afford to move to the Altasens when it is out should do so. You will be doing the people who need to build a <$5K system a big service. When I have real ship dates on the SI-1920HD and 64 bit Epix FG, I'll let everyone know. __________________ Silicon Imaging, Inc. We see the Light! http://www.siliconimaging.com

August 31st, 2004, 03:01 PM	#1549
Obin Olson Trustee Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Wilmington NC Posts: 1,414	I don't see the image what is the name Rob? also Steve: Steve I would be very happy to do that with the ground glass BUT..this chip is so much less sensitive then the 1300 I am really not sure we would get anything that could be used professionaly from it..if it was the same as the 1300 it would work...argg ;)

August 31st, 2004, 03:14 PM	#1551
Obin Olson Trustee Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Wilmington NC Posts: 1,414	not bad Rob not bad...

August 31st, 2004, 04:26 PM	#1552
Juan M. M. Fiebelkorn Major Player Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Buenos Aires , Argentina Posts: 444	What camera are you using?

August 31st, 2004, 04:27 PM	#1553
Obin Olson Trustee Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Wilmington NC Posts: 1,414	I think I have made my mind up. I am going to use the 1300chip for now and make a working prototype camera with case LCD screens software etc as a proof-of-concept and use it as much as I can to work all the real-world bugs out for production work...maybe even shoot a short film with it..by this time the Altasense will be out and I can buy that camera/chip and upgrade from 32bit pci ->64bit pci-x. I will buy the micro board now that has 64bit so that it is ready when the new chip and 64bit grabber are out..does anyone see any problems with this plan? This will give me : A: a working camera less the smear factor B: keep things moving along even though it is not the final hardware so that I will be ready when the stuff is on the market from Silicon Imaging

August 31st, 2004, 04:28 PM	#1554
Juan M. M. Fiebelkorn Major Player Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Buenos Aires , Argentina Posts: 444	You are on the right direction!!!! The pentium M motherboard you mean?

August 31st, 2004, 08:16 PM	#1557
Obin Olson Trustee Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Wilmington NC Posts: 1,414	what is that hefty pricetag on the Altasense Steve?

August 31st, 2004, 09:42 PM	#1558
Joshua Starnes Major Player Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 356	<<<-- Originally posted by Steve Nordhauser : Obin, sounds like a good plan. It will also solve a big question for the group - is the 1300 smear managable in a real shoot? The only value in the 1300/3300 is in cost. Certainly people who can afford to move to the Altasens when it is out should do so. You will be doing the people who need to build a <$5K system a big service. -->>> This is what a lot of people on the board are looking for. As nice as working with an Altasens, a lot of people watching this thread are prosumer camera users (like me) who are looking for a way to increase production value without increasing our costs. For people like that, a sub $10,000 just isn't a practical reality. A sub $5,000 camera is just about doable, with a lot of scrimping and saving. If the smear problems turn out to be managable, that's something a lot of us will be willing to deal with.

August 31st, 2004, 11:00 PM	#1559
Jason Rodriguez Trustee Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 1,095	BTW, Just for pricing info, I'm blocking out $12,000 for a proposal I'm putting together to build a camera around the Altasens-based SI-1920/EPIX 64-bit card and a custom-built enclosure that should be somewhat ergonomic. As of right now though, there's a very real possiblity that I'll be directing a project in October, which will require quite a bit of pre-production this next month-and-a-half, so I won't be building anything till this shoot is over-which seems good, because it seems as though the parts won't be available till then either!