Brett.

Would a fan motor from a computer (ball bearing type not plain bearing) be any good. They're built for continuous duty and I think some are brushless DC. Might be an oddball voltage though.

<<<-- Originally posted by Giroud Francois : ok , first pictures.
probably a good pass with a black paint spay will help to get a more professional look
All is made from very cheap aluminium profile. You just need to cut and assemble together. The full stuff cost me less than 35$.


Looks very professional to me, one of the best DIY rail systems I've seen so far. I wish I knew how to achieve this look without using a milling machine, which I do not have. I'd be most interested in how you solved the coupling between the rods and sliding support. Also, are your sliding supports height-adjustable? Great work!

ok , first the picture...
http://www.giroud.com/minidv/a1.jpg
http://www.giroud.com/minidv/a2.jpg
http://www.giroud.com/minidv/b1.jpg
http://www.giroud.com/minidv/b2.jpg
http://www.giroud.com/minidv/c.jpg
http://www.giroud.com/minidv/d.jpg
http://www.giroud.com/minidv/e.jpg

now for the aluminium stuff, i try to find only component you can assemble with epoxy glue and some screw when needed.
Fortunately my DIY shop as all what i can dream.
i do not plan for this first shot to make anything variable.
you can just slide the stuff along the rail as it is just blocked by 4 o-ring plastics joints.
i plan to add another stuff like a handle and a shoulder support so i can use it without tripod.
The next version will be more sleek , all soldered instead screwed and probably respecting the 80mm spacing as the bars are already at the standard (15mm). as soon as i got time i will show more macro shot (probably breaking the dream but who cares...)

Wow! Those are very impressive images. Excellent work, Giroud!

Giroud-
I agree! Very nice! You have a static 35mm adapter which makes it even more amazing. Could you refresh us with the components you used for your set up (ie type and placement of diopter, gg, etc.)

ok , i will post all the pictures so no long explanations are necessary.
The gg has been made with a technique a learned from several bad previous attempt.
I put my AO (it is the 1000 grit one) obtained from a guy in france who purchased tons of it for his miniDV project and start to share.
it cost me 10$ and it is the only one i got, since my previous order on the web has been never responded.
I put about 3 or 4 teespoon of it into a baby food glass pot.
added about 3 time water. shake for 10 sec, leave for 5 sec and take a small syringe and fill it. Drop a few of it on the glass plate . this ensure you only get the finest of it.
that is very liquid mix, and you can even think it is only colored water.
put the lens over and start to move slowly. no pressure required , just a lot of time (count about 30 min for the first result).
you can here the sound shhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
suddenly shhhhhzrrrrrrshhhhhhhh. ooops you just got a bad sheep and probably made a nice scratch. Clean all with water (lens and glass) shake the mix and start again.
if you are lucky you got a good shot and the bad noise never come back.
While you work, the mix start to dry and the AO tends to accumulate on the border. just bring it back with the lens (passing on it) and add a bit more of the mix when it is drying.
this is were the syring is very effective.
the advantage of this is you let the AO wear and it goes probably finer as you progress.
The result is a very fine gg ,too fine indeed, so you will need to make a pass with a mix of AO a bit more consistent (more AO, less water) for few minutes and with a bit more of pressure.
This get the real final aspect (very opaque glass).
Personally this stage included the creation of fine scratch that i removed with the same technique (lot of water, few AO) described before.

Another point is that i am not using glass of a uV filter but the one from a very thin lens (you will see that in picture soon). I think the kind of glass used inluence greatly the result.

... pictures.
the alu part costing about 1$ each except the right angle tube (electrical booth of the DIY shop) that cost 6$.
http://www.giroud.com/minidv/alu1.jpg
http://www.giroud.com/minidv/alu2.jpg
http://www.giroud.com/minidv/alu3.jpg
not shown are eloxed tube (1meter, 15mm dia) for about 5$
it is not raw alu, it is a special stuff called Duralumin that is much harder (you can not bend it, it will break like steel) and it is much lighter than alu and the mat eloxed finish is very cool.

the GG lens (the one for my 2nd proto, not yet frosted) because i still hesistate to use it if i have to vibrate, should be too big and heavy. the lense is 60mm diameter and about 4mm thick at center.
http://www.giroud.com/minidv/lens.jpg
the achromat macro lens 52mm dia.(this one was a test for GG)
5$ at www.suplusshed.com
http://www.giroud.com/minidv/lens2.jpg
all these lens have pretty long focal length (around 20cm) that is why my adapter is so long. I think i could make it shorter, but the previous version that was shorter about 2 inches showed heavy vignetting that is why i build this version longer.
Finally there is another lens between the condenser and the macro that looks like a huge (55mm dia) contact lens and i think this one make all the difference and could probably let me shorten all the stuff.
the pot with the AO (since several week the water evaporate but you can still see the level it was.
http://www.giroud.com/minidv/aomix.jpg

Girard.

If you use a piece of bronze with flat smooth surface, milled or turned on lathe, there is less problem with sticking-scratch.

Giroud-
Thanks for the detailed response. One question. You say that you have another lens between the condenser and the macro lens and its shaped like a contact lens. Do you mean it has two curved surfaces - one convex and one concaved? What is the effect/purpose of this lens in your adapter?

Thanks ahead of time.

-Brett

yes that is correct . the lens has a concave side and a convex one.
they are not the same curve, so there is a magnification effect, but not really big
the lens anyway is very thin (few milimeters at the thickest).
the picture i got without this lens (gg condenser +macro) was good but you can still see this halo (bright center/dark corner) on my 60mm diam. gg glass.
the zoom was then very touchy to place to make sure you did not get any vignetting.
Then i just give a try to this lens and wow, what a difference.
the gg glass become covered with same light on all the surface, while keeping the same field of view.
the only problem i did not see immediately it that the position of the lens is critical. too close from the gg and the straight line start to curve inside and too far they curve outside, but finally i found the correct distance and all is ok.

to Bob Hart.
Ok thank for the advice, but it seems this kind of equipment is in the "hard to find" section and my strategy for the miniDV project was "keep it simple". That is why i am still reluctant to gg vibration as it is involving very special work and parts.
I do not desesperate to be able to do it with very simply but tracks are not really clear.
Any way if you can reach the quality of my gg glass, the level of vibration required should be very small.

ok, after some brain storming with myself , i think a got a simple easy solution.
first you need an aluminium plate to hold all the stuff.
can be round or square, round being easier to put in a tube.
in this plate you drill the hole to display the picture.
A round hole is easier, a square one is better since it leaves more space on at least the 2 shortest side of the window.
you drill 2 small holes to receive 2 short axis on which you will plug 2 roller bearing
if you got a plate with thickness of 3mm and a roller bearing thick of 3mm , then an axis long on 6mm is ok.
diameter and position of axis depends the internal/external diam. of roller bearing.
http://www.giroud.com/minidv/plate1.jpg
you can lock the roller bearing with locktite or glue on the axis.
the next part is the hardest.
It is a cap made of delrin or aluminium that covers the 2 ball bearing. one of this cover is the pulley that makes rotate the 2nd plate, so you can design it a bit larger than the other one.
this cap as a pin on top of it that act like an axis.
this pin (or axis) is not centered in the middle of the cap, but out centered to produce the displacement needed. 1 or 2 mm is enough i think. the less you move, the less you generate bad vibs.
http://www.giroud.com/minidv/cap.jpg
again you can glue the cap on the ball bearing.
then you plug a 2nd set of ball bearing on the axis of the cap.
The last part is the plate that hold the gg.
it is smaller diam. than the first one due to the displacement, but basically can have the same shape as the first one.
you glue this plate onto the external ring of the ball bearings and it is finished.
before glueing it, do not forget to put in place the belt that will run the pulley. you can use a very small diameter motor (the same one used for vibrating device in mobile phone for example, they have the same diameter as a cigarette).
http://www.jameco.com/cgi-bin/ncomme...x=26&Next.y=15
the challenge is to find 4 really small ball bearing like you find in floppy drive or harddisk (about 5mm diam. for about 3mm thickn.) to build a really compact gg vibrator.
http://www.smbbearings.com/smbcatalogue.htm
if you think that only 2 axis is too weak, you can add an axis to form a triangle as there is some space left next the top ball bearing on image plate1.jpg.
axis can be made from drill of drilling machine as you can find them
in various diameter and they are made of steel.

You may recall from your school days that 3 points make a plane. So I recommend at least 3 support points. Otherwise it will flap around in funny ways.
After making mine with 3 , I would now use 4, because it allows more room for the glass. That needs 12 ball bearings and 4 shafts.

I posted pics of the one I made. ( see the DSC series in there )
http://home.earthlink.net/~lesd/hd/

Am I the only one to have done this?

My offer of providing pre machined kits still stands, $350 gets you all the stuff , without having to try to make it out of office supplies and kitchen junk ! ;)

-Les

Bearings from disk drives?
 

<<<-- Originally posted by Giroud Francois :
...the challenge is to find 4 really small ball bearing like you find in floppy drive or harddisk...-->>>

Giroud (and others): I have been looking around for bearings suitable for this project, as I am also wanting to build one of these. The hobby stores around here don't carry small enough bearings, and the suppliers I've found online seem to be for ordering in bulk. BUT, I do have access to a bunch of old floppy drives, hard drives, CD-ROM drives, etc that I can take apart. Would I find some of what I need in there, or is it built in a non-modular format to where the bearings couldn't be removed as a unit?

Thanks for you guys' help!

Giroud,

You are going with the vibrating version? Were you unsatisfied with the results of your static GG? It looked pretty good to me.

By the way, on your current static ground glass, how far can you stop down the lens before the grain starts to show?

-yes i am happy with the static result but just for curiosity i want to try the moving one, because anyway if it is not ok , at least you can shut down the motor and get a static one.
-I think that 2 axis are ok due to the fact that all the stuff is vertical , wheith and distances are small, but you are right, 3 axis is safer and doesn't add much work.
for the parts like ball bearing, the problem ofgetting them from junk equipment is to find more than 2 or 3 parts with same specification. for those who make proto out of nothing like me, it can be ok if you do not plan to build more than one device and don't need for spare parts.
If we achive a good design, i think we could put our ressources together, each one providing what he can get easily and make a kit that contains all the hard to find parts.
list would be.
-8 small roller bearing +axis (30$ ?)
-2 aluminum tubes + sliding parts (20$)
- 2 macro lenses (2x5$)
- 50g of 1000 grit AO
..... add your items here.

I was able to pick up bearings so small they wont even fit on the writing end of a pen. They are out there. I found mine at a r/c hobby store.

Les-
Im with you buddy. You, me and a few other people on this thread are making the same type of adapter. In fact Im the one that recomended changing the design to 4 shafts instead of 3 for the exact reason you just mentioned. I think people would be interested in the kits your willing to put together but make sure your not going to get yourself in trouble with P+S Technik. Since its only a part for the adapter you may not have any problems but check it out. If its a problem I know of some unique ways to move the GG that should get you around the patent.

Brett + Les,
how the the P+S work, you can see on this drawing. http://de.geocities.com/raiorz/vibro_old/vibro1.jpg. But don´t think you can go around the patent if you change the way you move it. The only statement in the P+S patent is that the use a moving GG. That means: They have a patent on all kinds of movings, rotation, slide, vibration and so on...

I had also made some different ways to move the GG. My company had checked the patent and we found a way to go around, but it is not in the way you move the GG.

PS: 3 point is the best, more or less and you have big problems..

Why do you feel 4 points cause a problem?

Also is your design a no GG/front project system?

my opinion is , if it works with 3 don't bother with 4.
For the kit, there is no problem as long as you sell it as a pack of general use parts. People can then do anything they want with after that. just do not put any explicit word or drawing into the description.
I like the design of the ver 2.1 but i think there is no point to move the motor out of the ring if we can put it on the same plate.
that way everyhting can fit in a closed tube.
should give something like this
http://www.giroud.com/minidv/vibro1.jpg
just replace one of the axis with the motor axis. you do not need the belt as the gg plate will act the same.
by viewing you drawing , i understand my idea is more complex to realize than your. Nice job.
as soon as i find the ball bearing i will start the stuff.

Brett, as Giround say: "...if it works with 3 don't bother with 4..." 4 can work, also 5, 6 or more, but why? It only cost power, work, $ and it can wedged.

Giround, well your idea will work. The only think is, you must found a small motor. The original motor can be on his place, because a prisma also need the space.

This way works also: Replace all 3 axis with motors and you don´t need a rubber belt. We found 3 identically constructed CD-ROM Motors have the power.

little motors, static screen frame grab trickery
 

The only reason I would use 4 shafts is to make it more compact.
On using the motor in place of the shaft, that can work, but remember that the little motors don't have ball bearings, and they may wear out fast because of the vibration motion.
I'm not worried about a patent issue, I am making a substrate shaker, not a GG shaker. It is also a parts set, you have to spend 15min putting the parts together. You can put some sandpaper in the middle and use it to file your finger nails, if you so desire!

Now, if you put GG in there, and sell it like that, you can get in trouble.

Static versions: I always warn people that still frames from these might look great, but the grain won't show on a still. Ask to see a slow panning shot of some out of focus scene. Look for the grain as a pattern that stays in the same place while the scene moves across the screen. It looks like a dirty lens cover. Mind you, I think it's possible to get good results with static methods, but my HD-10 JVC is harder to do this with. As the days of the web cam resolution cameras fade ( DV !) , moving GG will be a better look.

I put together a 3D model of this device to show a family member (who's a machinist) so that he could get a good understanding of how the different parts of the device fit together. He is going to get it built for free / cheap. I just pay for materials.

http://www.frankladner.com/images/vibro_adapter_3D.gif

However, I am now thinking more towards the 4-pole version, since it would allow for a smaller unit.

Anyhow, I just thought I'd post it and maybe it would help some of the guys that are new to this project understand it better.

...now that I look back over the image, it may not be the best presentation...maybe a little confusing...but hopefully after comparisons are made from the various images/angles, it will fit together and make sense.

Thanks!

that is a lot better.
But i still bo not understand why you add this plate in the middle with the ball bearings.
in theory just two plates, one static , one moving should be ok ?

Excellent images! I dont want to speak for Franks design but your definately right in thinking that the concept will work with only two plates.

BTW Im also going with a 4 shaft system. Its not only smaller but its easier to build with less mass on the plate which will hold the GG.

The idea of having 3 or 4 motors instead of a pulley system introduces some possible problems you might want to consider. Each of thoughs motors will have to always be running at the EXACT speed for smooth/quiet motion and you just reduced your battery run time by 1/3 or 1/4th. Not to mention its also likely to be 3 to 4 times noiser. For these reasons Im making mine with a pulley drive.

Very nice work everyone. Were getting there.

P.S. Rai. I dont want you to give away your design if its going to turn into a money maker for you but could you at least give us a hint at the basic concept for the curious like myself? Being that I've been working on this project for over a year I've gone thru at least a dozen ways to make a mini35 like system work. My bet is on something similar to one of my design I posted awhile back. Its a adapter without any moving parts that is grainless (because there isnt any gg), flips the image right side up and works on the concept of front projection instead of rear projection. I decided against the design only because of light loss problems.

>The idea of having 3 or 4 motors instead of a pulley system introduces some possible problems you might want to consider. Each of thoughs motors will have to always be running at the EXACT speed for smooth/quiet motion and you just reduced your battery run time by 1/3 or 1/4th. Not to mention its also likely to be 3 to 4 times noiser.

No your wrong. We had build both, 3 axis with external pulley drive motor and 3 CD-ROM like motors instead the axis. and the last way was noiser and works with less power, because it work without a pulley. A CD-ROM motor is a 3-phase motor, it work with AC and you can connect every phase of the 3 (or more ) motors and with every puls all 3 motors move the exact same angle. But it will works also with 3 DC motors. The exact speed is given, because there is a little mecanical transmission over the moved platform, like the wheels on a old steam train are moved. Think on the pulley, it work also not exacty, but it work because there is also the mecanical transmission.

Brett, i know you design, but the light loss is the problem.

I know also a different design, maybe the best off all, but we can not >The idea of having 3 or 4 motors instead of a pulley system introduces some possible problems you might want to consider. Each of thoughs motors will have to always be running at the EXACT speed for smooth/quiet motion and you just reduced your battery run time by 1/3 or 1/4th. Not to mention its also likely to be 3 to 4 times noiser.

No your wrong. We had build both, 3 axis with external pulley drive motor and 3 CD-ROM like motors instead the axis. and the last way was noiser and works with less power, because it work without a pulley. A CD-ROM motor is a 3-phase motor, it work with AC and you can connect every phase of the 3 (or more ) motors and with every puls all 3 motors move the exact same angle. But it will works also with 3 DC motors. The exact speed is given, because there is a little mecanical transmission over the moved platform, like the wheels on a old steam train are moved. Think on the pulley, it work also not exacty, but it work because there is also the mecanical transmission.

Brett, i know you design, but the light loss is the problem.
I know also a different design, maybe the best of all, but we can not produce the necessary part. It is like a light-wave cable with 2 - 4 millions of threads, bundled on one side to the ccd format and at the other side to the 35mm format. It can mounted on the ccd and so it need no lenses.

We work since many years on different 35mm DOF solutions and other parts. (All for a movie production and it was before P+S make the adapter). I like to tell our last "secret", but this will cost my head. But i can tell some good and some bad ways. Maybe i can post some pictures of our older (but good working) parts. Also we can sell parts, that will be okay.

Giroud: I thought at first about just removing the bottom plate. But then I thought about the pulleys where the belt is attached underneath. I figured that there would be tension from the belt squeezing the poles together and that they would need support. I guess this depends on how much slack there would be in the bearings. Likely none but would it wear things down faster not having a bottom support plate? (But then again, with the top plate for support, they couldn't be 'squeezed' in too much, eh?)

However, removing the MIDDLE plate, as you suggest, might work. I guess the pulleys would then be placed in the middle. That would simplify it and make it cheaper. Hrrrmm..... This sounds like something to try.


Thanks for the feedback, guys!

Frank, try it, but think about fine mechanic like a clock, and not like a toy. If you remove one plate the axis "hang" only in the bearings. The slack in the bearings is not a defined parameter and the axis will swing and the bearing will not work long times. The only possible way is you use a thicker plate and mount two bearings in place of one (one directly over the other)

Rai: I completely understand your thinking. But would the top plate act as a support also, or would it not due to the fact that it is offset (with the motion - although small - and weight moving the poles)?

When I actually get my hands on some bearings, I'll have an idea of their characteristics and will better understand these principles.

For the optical fiber idea, it already exists in night vision device (generation 2 and up).
They put a lot of optical fibers together, then make a 180 degree turn and glue all. this gives a really lightweight system.
http://www.us.schott.com/fiberoptics...ghtvision.html
unfortunately it cost probably the hell, but it would be a good solution because you got two problems solved in one shot.
vibrating the picture and putting it upside down.
if somebody is in touch with some military guy who could provide a dead model, we could check if resolution is usable (i doubt).

for the 2 or 3 plate question:
If you put a ball bearing at each side of the plate and this one being thick enough (approx. 3 or 4 mm), i thing there will be no more problem while keeping only two plates.

for the pulley and belt, i do not undersand why you need it.
if you drive one hole of the top plate , the other ones should follow as their are physically drilled in the same plate.
it put a little bit of stress on one of the axis.
It should be even better as the motion created is not more exactly an ellipse but can slightly vary.

Sorry to challenge the design , but i am not a mechanic guy and i try to think to all these guy who are building the stuff on the kitchen corner and hope for a really simple design.
On the other hand , if you sell it finished for a good price , i do not really care how it works.

Ball Bearing Info
 

I just came across this page and wanted to share it for the guys like me that are new to bearing nomenclature.

http://www.dynaroll.com/catalog/pag005.htm

Pretty helpful information, I think.

Frank, every transmission , every wheels and every axis need two bearings. It´s basic mechanics. If you try those with only one, it will work inaccurately and only short time.
The first two plates in my disign stand still. The only think they do is hold the 6 bearings (and housing and motor).

Giroud,
1.) optical fiber idea: Cool. I newer see this before...

2.) 2 plate, your idea is good. You have to bearings on a axis, but only one plate, okay.
3.) pulley and beld. You need it, because the moving only is to small.
4.) really simple design. Oh, yes, there is a realy simple design, but ... ...mmmmh

Ball Bearing Source
 

I am about to order the following ball bearings, and wanted to share the source with you guys.

MR105-ZZ (5x10x4mm) $2.00 each or $6.95 for 4 Pack (BWK-06)
(10mm diameter, 5mm bore, 4mm thick)
MR63-ZZ (3x6x2.5mm)$3.50 each or $11.95 for 4 Pack (BWK-40)
(6mm diameter, 3mm bore, 2.5mm thick)

http://www.bocabearings.com/cart/cart1.cfm

I am getting 2 packs of the 10mm (8 total) and 1 pack of the 6mm (4 total) the final price comes to $25.85. (Free shipping on orders > $10.00.)

The fiber optics idea was explored a while back but the research on the subject revealed that the resolution of current systems on the market was not up to par with even standard def. But perhaps they have inproved on the technology since then. Its also used by some plummers to check a pipe for a clog with a video probe. Same low res problem though. It would seem that you would have to either have every fiber optic strand perfectly lined up with each pixel on the CCD. If not your would need to have a much finer array of fiber optic strands to make up for any misalignment. Either way it sounds like is not a option for a DIY project. Pretty interesting stuff though. On a interesting side note they are thinking about using fiber optic cable instead of flourescents in office buildings during the day. The sunlight would be captured by a parabolic mirror on the roof and sent down a array of fiber optics cables to each room. No power needed. Cool stuff.

-Brett Erskine

Brett, that the point. The fiber optics idea work only if perfectly lined up with each pixel on the CCD (like the RGB filter on one chip sensors). My company make opto mechanics and also a very fine 35mm GG solution (last week we tested it on a optical bank with a 25000x1500pixel sensor and it show a high sharp test picture with no grain) but the fiber optic idea, we can not realizable.

Rai,

Is this GG that you make for sale? How much?

Did I also hear you saying a while back that you make follow-focus devices for still lenses? I would be interested in knowing the price on that too.

Thanks

Regarding fibre optics. They are called coherent fibre bundles when their arragement at one end is the same as the other so an image at one end is reproduced at the other.

Following is information kindly provided to me by Electrophysics Corp who make the night vision devices which provided the Iraq war news night-vision footage.

"""""
Clearly the prism/mirror approach would be lower cost and better performance. There is no existing production of image twisters having 35mm format. In addition, performance will be degraded in several areas:

1)

There will be a significant reduction in effective F-number from the coherent fiber bundle (they usually have about 30% transmission);

2)

Resolution (MTF) will be significantly reduced due to the limited size of each fiber;

3)

They will be costly.

"""""

Justin, in principle yes. Fact is, up to now we had make all products only for use in productions, not for sale, so far. At this time we make some examinations with our products (ISO, CE ...) A must for the market. This need a little time.

Arround the 35mm solutions, i think this products are possible:

Complete units and/or

Self-made-GG-sets with m42 on the front side, maybe in two versions, static and with vibration drive (because vibration make the best GG better). A low-cost version for full PAL and a special HDTV version but this not for self made.

Prism-Set, suitably for the backside for UP-Side-Down correction

Relay-Lens-Set for XL1 or other

Motor driven follow-focus system for all kinds of still camera lenses. Controllable over a poti on the side of the GG unit, or wireless (For steady cam users)

All part made for our rail mount system.

The products are here on my table, but yet i dont know details about prices or delivery.

the problem is there are already several company making such product and we are not purchasing from them because it is too expensive. I do not really see why you would give yours for less than theirs.
The first thing that your market Dept. will do is to compare with equivalent product and price your stuff in order to get the money back, then still too expensive for us.....infinite loop, as soon as you are trying to do a business with something, it does not interest people that are not willing to purchase finished products.
My static mini cost me less than 100$ and i will probably add 100 for the moving stage. if it should cost me even less than 1000$ (that is actually pretty nice) i would not even started to read all these posts.
Probably you are in a different category, but i am in the "nice to have , as long it doesn't cost me too much". Additionally the reward of doing it by myself is bigger than just spare money.
And if i am able to justify it professionally, i would probably simply rent the real stuff.
I think we should focus on this because it is the start of everything.

ok , that was few hours ago, now i am back home and found the perfect roller for the project.
initially it is a metallic roller about 12mm dia.that is used to drive a belt. the axis is about 12 mm long , 2mm dia , threaded on each end. when you remove the flange, surprise... it contains 2x 7mm roller bearing. in fact not really... the axis has thread of 2mm dia on each end , but is larger in the middle (about 4mm) and serve as core for both the rollers bearing. the greatest thing is that there is 2mm of this axis available between the two roller so i can put the belt here. The three plate design (with a spacing of only 2 or 3 mm) takes all the meaning here with almost no work than drilling holes. additionally, i will use one of the threaded end to fix the motor on one of the axis.

On the other hand, if you can build a business on it , good luck for you.

Costs
 

Rai,
It seems you would have to hit a very low price to interest people on this forum. I offered a kit for a 4 shaft 12 ball bearing kit, with motor,belt, misc parts to make a complete GG orbiter for $350, and there was ZERO interest. It's not a pipe dream on paper on my end, as my posted pic have shown.
Perhaps a price of $100 might work here. Or maybe we let them try to make one for a while, and then see what happens :)

It's *not* the cost of the parts. The labor of making the custom parts is the price here.

-Les

Les $100
 

Les,
If you want to sell one for $100, give me a shout.

Hey Les,

I am interested in you orbiter. But $350 is a lot of money for no guarantee.

You see, I've been following these 35mm adapter threads from the beginning. Every time someone came up with a new idea, I went out and bought something different hopeing I'd finally have the holy grail of adapters. I've spent a lot of time and money on aluminum oxide, filters, filter rings, condenser lenses, old camera lenses, the list goes on. I still don't have a working adapter. I sure wouldn't want a $350 vibrator to be the next dead-end purchase for me.

I think you might have more luck if you lower your price to start with. This would help you get a user-base established who can then vouch for the validity of your product. Once there is more demand, you can raise the price to more effectively cover your labor.

Anyways- I am interested. How big is the target size on your vibrator? Will I be able to use medium format lenses on it? What kind of battery does the motor use?