to patrick wright
 

hey, patrick can you e-mail some costs of this setup, and explain to me if you feel that a ground glass will make a huge difference in the way your footage looks without it?


with the dof that you are obtaining do you think that you can get the less video look in post to achieve the same look you would get with ground glass? i like the fact that your camera looks like it doesn't need any special mounts or support. it looks like your cam will be stable on a good tripod.

It would be great if any stuff like that got posted to this thread so we can all share in it and perhaps help each other develop this project together.

I'm still experimenting with the relaylens. I can't believe that it should be so complicated. All you need is the right piece of glass and a mount. I'm having trouble making one because I get all my knowledge of lenses from experimenting. I basicly don't know anything about lenses. I took an old photocamera lens apart an held one of the several pieces of glass in front of the camera CCD and it shoved a nice picture (though not wide enough). So it should be possible with a single piece of glass...or??? I really need help from somebody who know lenses!

Can anybody tell my which glass I should get a hold of???

Thanks!

Anders, I am also trying to figure out a relay lens for my camera. So far it seems like the easiest way it's been done was with a 35mm still lens and an adapter, but there has to be a better way. If anyone has any ideas of what type of glass we might need to accomplish this please give us some advice. I know I sure could use some. Is there a better/cheaper way to do this other than using an adapter and 35mm still lens?

To : Christoph Hopf

I found this on the net:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/product/46335/SC2595X/REG/3662

Is that what you are referring to?

Shouldn't we just keep the xl-1 relaylens discussion in this thread instead of having to keep up with two identical threads?

sorry folks,

somehow i didn`t noticed that there is a allready a existing thread about this subject.
i am quite sure that p&s technik use this schneider xenonlense for the relay lense.

now i am thinking about to order only the relay lense from p&s Technik. maybe it`s possible??

That would really be awesome! I think the list price is about 1500 euro or something for the whole connection kit. I wonder would the lens alone would cost?

I don't think that you should mention what you want to use it for! The only way they would sell the lens alone would be if you already had bought the adaptor but you had broken the lens!??

Give it a try (tell them you have broken 2 ;-)

my aunt lives in munich, and works for arri. maybe she know one of the p&s guys. i will call her. next week i should know if i can buy the relay lense alone

That sounds really nice! I have been considering buying one from the start but haven't because of the price. So if it's possible for you to buy it seperately I really want to buy one as well.

you needn't call her it is possible.

Part No. 18770 Mini35Digital connecting kit for Canon XL1 / XL1s, incl. Intermediate lens, plate for fixing the video camera, adapter for Canon battery , ergonomic holder for color finder.
Price: 1530,00 EUR

source: www.pstechnik.de

canon xl adapter page
 

maybe this will help some people who are making their own lenses

http://www.dinoreyes.com/images/lensadapter.html

cheers!

To Christoph Hopf: Have you talked to your aunt?

To Dietmar Zonewicz: I'm interested in buying the lens and only the lens(not the rods etc.). I think 1500 is pretty expensive!

Does anybody know if that xenon lens:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/product/46335/SC2595X/REG/3662

would work with the xl-1 and homebuilt adaptor??????

Thanks

I phoned PStecnik and it seems that the relay lens alone will cost 1000 euro. Pretty much!

If I bought that lens - could I just mount a GG and a lens - and then start shooting? or would I still need to get an achromatic adaptor and stuff???


Thanks!

I phoned PStecnik and it seems that the relay lens alone will cost 1000 euro. Pretty much!

If I bought that lens - could I just mount a GG and a lens - and then start shooting? or would I still need to get an achromatic adaptor and stuff???

You're going to need an achromatic adaptor, or some other method of getting the relay lens to focus onto the GG without vignetting the image.

not 100% sure, but it seems if they will send you the relay lens, than all you need is to build the gg and mount in front of it. if you look at the pdf of the innards of the lens, you can probably deduce where the "relay" ends and the gg element part begins. If there are no more optics (besides gg), then yes, all you have to do is put a gg in front of it and get a mount.

everyone check out the other thread, its starting to see some more life.
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...5&pagenumber=3
stephen birdsong

Do you think that the P+S relaylens has somekind of a freshnel lens built in?

P+S have no own lens. They use a 25mm high quality c-mount lens from Schneider Kreuznach. This lens is a very fast lens (under 1), so also 16mm filmmakers love this lens since years. Here in germany the lens cost round 900,- euro.

Close behind the GG is a condenser lens. This is because the hotspot, but P+S use NO other lens. With the Schneider lens there is no vignetting in the image and it can focus on short distance. The distance between lens and GG is round 11cm (prisms + mirror = 10cm).

If you wont a bright picture, but without DOF, you can remove the GG (but not the condenser).

This way work a adapter form Angenieux:

http://www.smsprod.com/products/lenses/angenieux4.html

It reduce the image size from 35mm film lenses to a video sensor. But this very expensive part have no prism, so the picture is upside down. Okay this is only for 2/3" sensors, but just have a look inside.

Rai, are you saying that p+s uses the Angenieux as their relay lens? or are you saying that they use another companies lens as their relay lens, one that we could purchase on our own. If so, that is great news, as the relay lens is where most of us are stuck on our xl1 systems.

stephen

stephen, read carefully what rai wrote.
Everything is in the first paragraph: Schneider Kreuznach 25mm f 1:0,95 - the only thing to change is the mount (from c-mount to xl-mount).

dietmar

Look at this

http://de.geocities.com/raiorz/vibro_old/relaislens_1.jpg

My company have made the Canon Lens Adataper.
And also all other parts you need for a 35mm vibration solution. The case is ALU, it have 2 build-in light weight support rods. The vibration drive need 6V DC, but only 35mA

I just bought a relaylens from P+S for 1090 euro. But it doesn't look exactly like the lens you are showing in the link. The iris ring is closer to the camera than the focus ring. But perhaps they are otherwise identical!

Anders,
what is your plan to mount the lens to your camera?
Im curious to know what you find out from your lens, fill me in.

Stephen

Anders,
Schneider Kreuznach made the inside lenses but the Housing came in differnt design and under differnt names (Angenieux or Schneider Kreuznach or others). But inside it is the same

So basically, if you buy the relay lense from Schneider, you then have to mount your own ground glass in front of it, and somehow connect a mount (PL, Nikon, whatever) to the ground glass.

Look at this

http://de.geocities.com/raiorz/vibro_old/relaislens_1.jpg

My company have made the Canon Lens Adataper.
And also all other parts you need for a 35mm vibration solution. The case is ALU, it have 2 build-in light weight support rods. The vibration drive need 6V DC, but only 35mA

Great. How much does it cost to make? Are you going to distribute plans or are you willing to make more and sell them?

I was wondering about the whole prism (rotate image) question. Doesn't the prism and mirror steal F-stops??
Because on the XL-1 you can simply flip the eyepiece to the other side and the image is corrected. Then in post you can just use the:

http://www.leadtools.com/SDK/Multimedia/Direct-Show-Filters/Multimedia-DirectShow-Rotate.htm

during capture (without loss I hope). If this is true then I would rather avoid bothering with prism and mirrors.

Or am I wrong???

We can sell the relay lens for Euro 900,- (round $ 1.115,-)

We found a cheaper one, but i dont know how good it is. We check it next 2 weeks

A mount adapter (to connect the lens to the Canon) cost Euro 198,- ( $ 245,- )

BTW: only with this lens (without the other GG adapter parts) you can make good night shoots. ( F stop = 0,95 )

Anders,
yes, the prism "steal" a little bit light but. In F-stops? I think only 0,05.

The prism is a expensive part, because you need a "big on" with inside more than 40mm diameter and it must be color corrected. I will check out the best price till next week Without the prism you need 10cm more distance.

I don't understand why it needs to have 10 cm more distance!
In a normal still-camera the lens is only about 5 cm from the film... I can see that without the prism and mirror the light will travel a shorter distance but... I'm sure that you are correct but could you explain it to me?

I would properly be interested in buying a colorcorrected prism then - So it would really like to know the best price you find.

In the PDF file showing the PRO35 there is something called "Schutz glas" - Is that a fresnel??

Thanks

schutzglas means protective glas

The way through a prism is longer than the prism outside. A still-camera have also build in a prism. So the way in a still-camera is also more then the outside dimensions.

But in different to the still-camera prism, you need a bigger one, because the relay lens have more than 30mm light circle. Thats why you need the big prism and thats why it take more distance.

Okay, you can mount a macro lens in front of the relaylens to reduce the distance, but than you will have some distortions.

The "SCHUTZ GLAS(S)" is only a clear glass to protect (SCHUTZ=protection) the inside parts for dust and dirt.

To reduce (elimate) the hot spot there is a convex lens with the plan side very near behind the vibration GG (sorry last day i call this condenser, thats wrong)

You say that the prism is expensive - what are talking here, $100 ? $500??????

Per member's requests, this thread has been merged with the Consolidated XL1 35mm Adapter thread -- this original copy is left intact for your viewing pleasure, but please direct all replies to the new monster we've created using the link above. Thanks,