grain issues
 

RE: the question for Dennis (noise issue being a by product of DV compression + low level vibrations)

Here is some footage from a Letus Flip. I've seen the same issue in my HDV footage. Here is a clip that is compressed to DV AVI but it looks the same as it does in HDV (if anyone wants me to do something with the HDV in Premiere/Cineform, just send me instructions and I'll upload it).

Anyone want to download it and take a look? (about 190mb)

www.danielrudd.com/media/cleanedletus.avi

here's a shorter clip in a different setting (smaller download but very short content). Also DV AVI:

you can see the problem particularly in the areas where light meets dark and the cam. is in motion
www.stock20.com/media/letus/tony_in_chair.avi

Ben,
I just finished my own set of rod/rails and noticed that it still requires a delicate touch to get the rack focus without shaking - much easier than without the rod/rails, but still careful movements. Did you notice this with the Cavision rails?

Negative, Leo. I tighten the support while it's pushing upward so it puts tension on the adapter's threads, which solidifies the whole setup. Also, the Century Optics adapter is a much tighter fit so I've found that I can use many of my smaller primes without the rod system at all.

Try wrapping the adapter and the support together with a piece of wire.

I have to tighten everything and put some corkboard under the camera base as well to really tighten it up. I will try again. Thanks

Daniel A., I missed your question there. My question (and I don't have the answer) is related to how DV compression handles noise in bokeh areas. It's a fine point, but I notice it particularly on my 51" HDTV. I've spent a great deal of time tuning bokeh...so I find myself quite distracted by grain patterns. The pattern that I see from Ben's and MPIC stuff is what I would describe as "angry bees"...in other words pretty active.

In the both your clips, there's a lot of what looks like stationary grain and dust. Is this a static adapter?



Leo, your rig should be rock solid on rails if it's mounted properly. Assuming the letus is supported properly, try 1 inch velcro strap around the whole thing. It's just easier to apply and remove.

Yeah, I already have the velcro around the Letus35 - it actually looks like the Cavision in design. I do notice that my camera is not perfectly mounted to the base, so that is why the cork board is next to give it something to bite into.

A mouse pad rubber will give you a better grip than cork. :)

I've done a few things since then and it is much better. I was also experiencing the vibration from the Letus35A against the aluminum hold it up, so I put some soft foam there. My tripod isn't great either so I am experience so all over movement from it. I think I need to invest in a good one to eliminate all of these problems, but the rail system seems to work fine for now.

No it is a letus 35 flip. Not modified.

When the motor is off you can see a significant difference, but I agree.
It looks like you can see the gg grain. The bigger dust spots are just by products of the last time I took it apart and I haven't cleaned them yet.

I've tried all of Quyen's tricks (moving the support sticks out, cleaning the gg), and I'm still waiting to hear back from him.

Any thoughts?

Hard to say without some uncompressed footage in good light. Given what you've spent though, I'd be dealing with Quen directly on this one. My guess is that something's not right there.....

Daniel.

A wild and woolly suggestion so ignore at will.

Try adding some resistive mass around outside of the Letus bodywork. This could as simple as some discarded wheel balance weights from your local tyrefitter or service station and strapped firmly around the Letus body with some stout elastic bands or inner tube or gaffer tape.

The failure of the gg to de-resolve grain may be an opposite motion of the case if it is not firmly mounted.

As I say - a woolly thought to be ignored.

hmmm... When I tighten down the adapter, I don't use very much force at all. It is only lightly screwed in - mostly because that aligns the frame properly.

Does your theory suggest I should tighten it all the way?

Hey guys--
didn't want to start a new thread, so I figured I'd shove this in here. I recently completed a film shot completely with the Letus modified--The diner scene was shot with the original Letus GG, everything else was basically shot with the Beattie installed. The only shot that isn't using the Letus is the very last shot at the end.

I know it's not a large frame size, but it's 10 minutes long, so I wanted to make it playable.

http://media.frozenphoenixproduction...rokenminds.mov

Let me know what you think.

You're a prodigy! What did you use to compose the music?

nice stuff ben.. good to see something other than test shots on these. really liked it

Very impressive Ben. That's a crap load of work there. You have a strong collection of shooting/editing/storytelling skills. Just curious, why did you make this film?

Thanks Steev! It means a lot coming from you. I'm a huge fan of Cubase SX, and I used a bunch of VSTs like Edirol Orchestral with it.

It was a class project. We wrote the script for about two weeks, then filmed it in two weeks, and edited it in one. I want to say that I wish I had more time to work on it, but I think we all say that no matter how much time we actually spend on it anyway :). I actually wanted to make it longer, but I'm submitting it to a festival that limits the length to under 10 minutes excluding credits.

Does anyone have any suggestions for color correction? I'm absolutely horrible at it, I don't own Magic Bullet and all I can think of is to bump up the contrast a little. White balancing that mix of indoor and outdoor light was a disaster :(. I can tell you right now that I'm kicking myself in the neck for not bringing blue neutral gels to balance out that warm light in the diner. Phooey. In fact I would've liked to make it a little green to suggest it was the light coming from the florescents behind the counter. But whatever, I definately think this helped me understand the workflow a lot better.

Thanks for the comments :)

Amazing work Ben, as always. I inspire to reach your level :)

Color correction is very subjective, some like more blues and greens, other did more reds and yellows.

Check out the Magic Bullet site and look at all the themed color examples they have listed, and pick which theme YOU think fits best with your film.

Also, please make a new thread with this posting ! I know many people will really enjoy it. It's a shame to hide it under this 7 pages deep.

If you don't, I will ! ;)

Keep doing what you're doing.

One point of critique, the sceen where the guy and girl are arguing in the hallway, I really wanted to see shoulder - up close - ups. Rather then having both on scene at the sametime and all we can see is the sides of the actors.

Oh, and I noticed another thing, are you a tiny bit camera shy !? ;)

My sentiments exactly! I wanted them so badly that I made them go back and redo the scene. But their heads were tilted at completely different angles and the footage just didn't match up at all, so I was forced to not use it. The only part I could use was the last shot where she says "I'm working." But trust me, if I could get that footage in I would in a heartbeat.

To be honest, I love being in front of the camera...but I can never trust who's behind it, and I'm so nit-picky about my framing and such! I am forced to put the camera on a tripod if I'm ever in front of it.

I had a friend's copy of Magic Bullet, but I'm kicking myself because I had to return it a while back and I've reformatted my computer since then. Gah!

I really appreciate your comments Mark, and everyone. I suppose I will make a new thread.

nice work ben. I echo the previous compliments, and want to specifically point out your great work in the opening credits.

And from an audio production standpoint your soundtrack was very good.

Thanks for sharing.

Amazing...Amazing ....Amazing work.

Nice work Ben. I am impressed.

As for color correction, why don't you try tungsten|SOLID CinemantiQ? :)

It does all you want from magic bullet and more (fast too, without need for hardware acceleration).

Alain, I forgot! I will try it out immediately! Thanks for the reminder! (hits forehead in frustration)

Edit: Tried out the presets, tweaked them a little and found a great look. Thanks Alain! Once you get the idea of how CinemantiQ flows (which takes about 30 seconds) it's a quick click or two to a great look. Ah, the wonderful look of diffusion :)

Saweet.

Haha we are chasing each other. I just posted on the other thread.

Well I am glad you liked it. Let me know if you need some advice, perhaps on 3-point color correction (things like getting more contrast without blowing out your highlights), etc.

letus upgrade
 

I have been doing upgrades in a letus 35.

1. Painted the tube black
2. Placed a nikon bayonet
3. Removed the GG to be cleaned

Unfortunately, when the unit was put back together a couple of problems
occured.

1. The GG does not vibrate enough to get rig of the grain.
2. Aparently there seems to be an unexplained increase in hot spot

I noticed that the glue that holds the syringe black rubber snapped.
We did glue it back but did not solve the vibrating problem.

We have been eager to solve this problems. This adapter costed my friend
Daniel quite a bit as we live in Brazil and our currency is devaluated.

Thanks for help in advance.

Alexandre

Alexandre, try doing this to each of the stoppers:

http://www.frozenphoenixproductions....attie/pic3.JPG

This will improve GG movement and most likely solve your grain problem.

I don't know how that hotspot would happen, my only suggestion is to make sure the PCXL is at the correct distance.

Ben,

I see a drop of silicone. What is the distance from the PCXL to the rear
rim. Thanks

I wish I knew. It's mostly trial and error. Try halfway.

Nice one Ben!
 

Great job on the Letus mods, it's great to see the flexibility of the device, and the possibilities for experimentation.

As for the film, it looks good too, an ambitious project. The only thing I would suggest before you do a festival submission is to redo/loop the Jake/Liz dialog immediately outside of the school, as it really sticks out compared to the excellent audio/music throughout the short.

This adapter is now for sale for $549 here:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=66571

If you got any budget left, perhaps beg or borrow some guy in the lab to do a tape to tape color correction for you. Makes all the difference in the world. Color correcting is a whole different ballgame, let the pro colorists handle it if you can...